Ian ,

Thanks for the follow up.

I have been curious about the Living Voice, too as they seem to work well with a low-powered SET amps.

I bet that the Avatar sound good with the 200 and I'd think that they are better suited than the SCM35 in a long run. A better headroom is always a good thing.

I am curious to hear the comparison between the Neat and the LV.

Ian ,

Thank you for posting your thoughts nice reading !

Your preference so far for the ATC SCM 35 , is this at all volume levels ?I Have read somewhere that ATC speakers really liven up at loud levels and fall down at low levels .

True?


Regards ,


Peter.

hi,

The ATC's do like to be a little louder than the Avatars but not overly so. To my ears they sound v. good at a normal 'listening' level (9'oclock on a 202/200), but do constrict a little earlier as you reduce the volume towards a 'background' mode. Not so much as to be a big factor in our decision but if you listen a lot at rather low levels you might feel differently.

- If that makes any sense??

We played a little with the placement of the Avatars following some words of wisdom from our dealer and the bass has improved somewhat - still not at the level of the ATCs but much better. The other end of the Avatars got even sweeter at the same time. Unfortunately the positioning is now rather inconvenient in our room.

Maybe our layout suits the unported ATCs better?

I suspect we'll have to get the dealer to come and do his magic in our room before we can really decide.

Thank heavens for good, knowledgeable dealers - it is a pleasure to spend money with these guys.

Ian

Ian ,

Yes , it does make sense. I suppose the perfect speaker at a certain price point does not exist . To get imaging, bass, treble, soundstage and at every vollume level would be nearly impossible for realistic priced speakers .

But it sure is fun / frustrating searching !

Peter.

Very interesting reading Ian,

I actually own the living voice avatar II's and they currently sit on the end of a CDS3/282/SC/250-2. They did previously live on the end of a 202/200 and i have to say that despite the fact they are quite sensitive speakers the extra control of the 250 does give a big improvement in the bass dept. Im sure thats not what you want to hear! but the point is that they will happily hang in there if and when your systems grows over the years to come. They also took quite a while to fully open up from new (100 hours) so it might be worth checking how old your demo speakers are. I dont need to tell you what sold them to me as youve heard for yourself! but i would be interested in how the dealer advised you to position them?

Best of luck and regards

Hawk

Hawk,

250.2 - I think not for an aeon.
Loadsa LP12 tinkering to be done first.

Dealer advised at least 18" from back wall and equidistant from side walls if poss. He suggested really measuring distances with a tape measure both to walls and to listening position to make sure everything is lined up.
(They do this at every dem I've attended).

Toe-in - aimed directly at the listener to start then
flatten off (i.e. focus behind listener if you need a bit of bass boost.)

The shahinian dealer surfaced today so I hope to get a listen to some Compasses after Easter. Then it is tough decision time.

Ian

A few weeks ago I decided that I upgrade my beloved SBLs. Great though they are they had become the weak link.

I've listened to several speakers since then - Naim SL2s, Neat MF7s, B&W 804s, Spendor S8s, JM Labs 726s and PMC OB1s.

For me the two best by far were:

Neat MF7s: I'd intended to listen to MF5s but they weren't in stock. I heard these straight after the SL2s and they thrashed them.

PMC OB1s: They are extremely clear and uncoloured, do great scale and depth, have immense rhythm and excitement, and incredibly deep bass for their size.

The MF7s at 7k + are totally out of reach but I've been lucky enough to find the OB1s for 1.7k secondhand (they retail at 2.5k) In my view they give nothing away to the much dearer Neats, though I didn't listen to either of them at home.

I realise that I'm breaking the cardinal rule of buying speakers by not hearing them in my own room but this isn't easy when buying secondhand. It's a risk I'm prepared to take, though, as the OB1s were so good.

I've just sold the SBLs on Ebay and will be moving in the OB1s next week.

Paul

ok all you shahinian advocates out there - I now have a pair of Arcs in the boot of my car, so tonight should be interesting.... (ex-dem so price should be do-able)

I'll keep you informed.

Ian

PS My better half keep referring to these as shenanigans, which is a very infectious pronunciation!

Yeah. that's what I call them too. Be interested to hear your findings.

Cheers

Harry

Way to go, Ian, way to go !

Do tell us all !

Stefan
(who one day might do that final step and get himself those Schahinnianns...)

quote:

I'll keep you informed.

....so what's the story (morning glory)....

ok so here's the skinny so far. But first those riders.

1) the Arcs apparently hadn't been used for some time so the dealer claimed they would need quite a bit of loosening up.

First impressions were "woah! what's going on here". The Sh. sound (which I'd never heard before) is indeed quite different to any other speakers which I've previously heard. The upward pointing drivers give an almost uncanny airy-ness to the sound - a bit like electrostatic speakers. It takes quite some getting used to and I don't think I'm really there yet. I found the wrap-around sound quite 'intrusive' at first.

The vocal presentation was very convincing and the bass impressively deep and quite well controlled. Single instruments were also well done. Where, so far, they have fallen down is in rendering complex passages with multiple layers and instruments in a cogent way. They also sound a little 'slow' (all those reflections perhaps) and not so punchy at either the ATCs or the Avatars.

Latterly we moved onto vinyl for a Peter Gabriel session and things looked up. Whether this was the LP12 sound or the speakers loosening off we'll figure out later in the week.

In the last hour they seem to be opening up somwhat - or I'm getting used to their presentation.

Anyhow that's where we're up to so far.

Except that one can't help but think of carnivorous wheelie-bins when looking at them.

Ian

At least that's better than Geoff's pregnant penguins

Jon

You're getting confused.

Geoff had pregnant nuns.

Nigel

Yep. Nigel's got the pregnant penguins!

It is real hard to keep abreast of you guys' love lives!

Ian

Oh dear...

Is this the point where I'm supposed to say:- "I'll get me coat" ??

Ian,

Thanks for the update.

It is interesting to read you and your 200's 'speaker journey'.

Still planing to audition the Neats, too?

quote:

Is this the point where I'm supposed to say:- "I'll get me coat" ?? Winker

Kuma:

I think I'll wait and see what happens in the next couple of weeks before deciding whether to chase the Neats again. I've been persuaded that the elites will not do it for me on the bass front at least with my amp (which I'm not changing!). The dealer had a special order SE-d pair of Vitos which he was selling (and may have sold already) but the WAF may be a problem there.

At the moment I'm focussing on sorting out between the ATC SCM35s who I recall well and have a real good overall balance, the Avatars once the local setup guru does his magic and the Arcs which I have at home now. Once I've done that I'll see how the balance between itchy wallet and exhaustion looks.


Ian