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No I couldn't get on with the Shahinian's. not enpugh definition for me and (in my room) the bass 'wallowed' - as soon as they went on my wife came in and said "That's awful, it's all bass". Maybe the room. As I said earlier, try the JM Lab 927be - £2700 which is about your budget and sound fantastic (to my ears, of course!)
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Senior Member |
Ian, You probably read my debacle with the Elites. They did not work with the 200 in my room at all. ( altho, they had plenty of good things going! ) I had a 300 here for a while but I wasn't motivated to put 'em through it. I would still love to home dem the MF5 or 7s but that will be difficult. I might be able to try the new ATC SCM35 which would be interesteing. I was encouraged that your 200 was able to drive them. ( not sure if they can do heavy electronica and percussive pieces at high SPL? )
I am amased that you have been diligent and patient. Very thorough. p.s. If you like the traits of the 200, moving up to the 250.2 isn't necessarily a upgrade.  |
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Alan,
I'll watch out for that boomy bass tonight but I didn't notice it last night at all. Riitta decreed she couldn't live with the bug-eye tweeter on the front so we have not listened to the JM lab range at all. Perhaps our loss  Ian |
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Senior Member |
Kuma,
You referred earlier on to new 'taller' versions of the SCM35s. I asked the dealer about that and he had no info. The pair I listened to were 87cm high as described in the current brochure on the ATC web site. Do you know if these are already the 'new taller ' ones ?? You're probably right about the 200 struggling to push the SCM35s to really high SPLs on high-energy music - but they went plenty loud in my house for the occasional cobweb removal. A clearer picture of the Arcs emerged after some extended listening last night but I'll keep my powder dry until I'm sure my opinions have stabilised - they sure are different tho'. Ian |
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IanGtoo,
I've had my ARCs now a few weeks and have been playing with the positioning of them quite a bit. They are different I agree but in a good way. In the main, what I have found is that positioning is not critical (as Shahinian will tell you). However they do say keep them away from corners (perhaps obvious) and tow them in towards the listener. I've found this to be good advice. Mine are towed in quite a bit, nearly 45 deg. If I place them too near the rear wall (50-75cm) they do sound heavy on the bass. Bring them out and they sound leaner and faster but still giving rich, controlled bass. The thing I find with the ARCs and Shahinian in general (I also owned their baby Elfs) they sound very open and natural. I think this is one reason they do sound "different" Some might replace different with "right" but I don't have enough experience of listening to different speakers (have heard Allaes; Neat MFS more recently) to be honest but to me the ARCs give great insight into the music and I like the rich bass and detail. Some also say the Shahinian speakers don't do rock or pop. I cannot see why people say this. They are fast, articulate speakers and do a great job of disappearing aurally. I was listening to some trancy dub (Banco de Gaia) stuff the other night and the back ground wall of bass was unbelievable. Keep listening. Bruce |
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Ian
What bug-eyed tweeter? It is aluminium looking and there is a metal cover which is very attractive and doesn't detract too much from the sound. Good luck - this Hi Fi changing is very stressful. I just tried a 250 and after 2 weeks still prefer my 140 - Is it me? 'Er indoors hated the sound of the 250 also!! Wallowy bass and not the transparency of the 140. |
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Senior Member |
Ian,
If you don't get on with the Shahinians, and are looking to hear something a bit different, you're welcome to pop over to hear my Virgos. A different presentation again, electrostatic speed, perhaps a little lighter in the bass than most speakers their size, but well worth hearing. There is a dealer over in Glenrothes. I could let you hear my pair on the end of an LP12/Aro/Geddon/Nait2. Just say the word... John |
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Senior Member |
hi,
Another evening with the ARCs and a pattern has emerged over a lot of different kinds of music. First the good. As advertised these speakers are rather insensitive to positioning. They produce a room filling sound which seems to float in the room rather than coming directly from the speakers. They do simple vocals very well. Their bass goes very deep especially for such small boxes. Now the not so good. (note it is not really the bad  ) They seem not to cope well with complex pieces. IMHO it all get bit garbled. Perhaps our odd shaped room is playing havoc with reflections. They can also suffer from over much bass. This is evident on some tracks where the vocal becomes submerged in the background. I never really found my attention grabbed by their ability to 'rock' when we tried some old Zepplin or The Who. So in summary, both the competition they were up against (ATC SCM35s and LV Avatar) consistently provided us track after track with 'wow, isn't that amazing' moments - albeit rarely on the same music. The ARCs, apart from their wonderfully airy presentation didn't do that very often. So they'll be going back and the decision gets one step closer. A few specific responses: Bruce: I'm glad your enjoying your ARCS, I tried some different placements but as you say the changes are slight. Different strokes for different folks. Alan B. Choosing hifi shouldn't be stressful, I find it fun. As I said a few posts back I could be very happily with the ATCs, so I'm just checking there is nothing better for us out there. Top Cat : I think I sent you an email re your kind offer. Ian |
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Senior Member |
Ian, My dealer told me that the ATC decided to revise the original 35 to get the drivers mounted higher. I sort of understand it since my niggle with the previous pair was a less linear bass. The bass seemed to be a tad full and slower. Other than that my understanding is that there are no other changes in parts or xovers. I am not sure of what's up on the ATC website. I'd think that the appearance would be exactly the same as the previous version. So... the ATC vs. LV.. interesting... |
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Member |
Ian,
I have listened recently to Spendor Classic series SP1/2 and SP100 with CDX2 and 200. The sound is fantastic; far better in my advice that the S series (S8, S9). |
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Kuma,
Thanks for that clarification - I misunderstood and thought you meant a physically taller cabinet not just moving the drivers. yep the ATC vs. LV is non-trivial - they are both so good at different things. Unfortunately one member of the household is leaning one way and I'm leaning the other way! We'll get the LV (& naim) dealer over to the house as he was confident he could fix the remaining issues we have with the LVs given his setup experience. And he's been (as usual) so helpful, I'd frankly like to give him the business. Watch this space (but only if you have nothing better to do !) Ian |
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New Member |
Here’s another speaker suggestion.
A bit of background – my Naim setup is similar to yours, although most of it is older (CDX2/82/Supercap/250), and my room is a similar size. The system dates from 1996 and at the time after a lot of listening I settled on a pair of Epos ES22 speakers. On rock music these speakers really excel, with a sound that rocks far more than most other speakers I’ve heard without being as uncomfortably forward as the Naim SBL of its day. The CDX2 is capable of producing very deep bass and the ES22 delivers this better than any sub silly-money speaker I’ve heard. Ought to add that the ES22 – which is a floor standing speaker - works very well on its three layers of Mana stands with better overall clarity and deeper bass than when standing on its own. The Epos brand disappeared a few years ago but has re-appeared as part of the Creek family with substantially similar designs and the ES22 has become the M22. Why not give them a try ? |
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New Member |
I plumped for the Spendor s8e`s after auditioning the PMC OB1`s as I felt the PMC`s sounded very harsh with my Naim gear CDX2/202/Hi-Cap/250.2
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Senior Member |
... and the winner is ... The Living Voice Avatar IIs.
They will be ordered tomorrow when the dealer opens up again. Last Thursday they were brought over and set-up properly in my room. Initially they sounded as before, a little bass light and lacking in real grunt. Then, as Living Voice recommend, we tried some bi-wired cable. Big change, more depth, more clarity. I was gobsmacked since I am (or was) a big sceptic when it comes to bi-wiring. Finally we ditched the TV which was sitting between the speakers, and the whole sound opened up beautifully. The midrange got sweeter and the bass tightened up. The music sounded great. So the weekend was spent re-arranging the living room to put the TV elsewhere and listening to lots of tunes. The choice between the ATC SCM35 and the Avatars has not been an easy one. These are both great loudspeakers. The Avatars have a delicacy of presentation which is beguiling, sound good at low volume, and look very elegant. The ATCs can rock it up, play all kind of music in a convincing way and have great low end grunt. On the down side they need a bit more volume to come to life. In the end the balance came out in favour of the Avatars but only by a whisker. So thanks to all of you who helped and encouraged us through in this adventure and I hope the LV delivery time is not too long - plugging the Missions back in will be a bit of a come down! Ian PS If anyone else had their telly between their speakers, try taking it out, you might be amazed too. |
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Ian,
Congratulations on reaching your decision. Now comes that uncertain period between placing the order and wondering when your new speakers will arrive! I hope it's not too long and I'm sure they will give you many years of happy listening enjoyment, as I am finding with my Spendor S5es which I bought last year. Cheers, Jon |
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Congrats Ian and thanks for your very informative speaker search thread.
I think the LV would be ultimately a better choice over the ATC with your 200. This amp really shines when you give it a wider headroom. Enjoy! |
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Congratulations Ian, at last another LV owner!
I hope you will be as happy with yours as i am with mine  Out of interest what bi-wire cable did you try? My Avatars are currently using a single run of NACA5. I did try some chord biwire cable for a short while but went back to NACA5 in the end. Best regards Hawk |
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Senior Member |
Chord Rumour. My dealer is rather down on NACA5 and he's been right in everything so far so I've tended to follow his advice. But statistics on this forum seem pretty clearly in favour of NACA 5. Perhaps I'll borrow some once the speakers get run in. Ian |
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Senior Member |
So finally almost a week after their 'expected' arrival date our new Avatars made it to the house last night. The timing couldn't have been worse - I had a 9.30am deadline to meet this morning, which meant working until 1am and getting up at 5am to finish it off. So not much listening there.
And we're heading off for the weekend up to the Highlands, then Monday night is out too since I have a business dinner commitment(which sounds posher than it is). THEN we have a visitor staying until Thursday and I'm out of town for work Friday and Saturday! So I figure I should get to listen to the CD of my choice on the afternoon of the 1st of May.  Maybe I should just rent speakers!!  Anyhow, the avatars look real slick flanking the rest of the system and should be nicely run in by the time I get to apply the ears. I'll post some photos in the 2005 thread once I get a minute. Sorry for the rant but I feel better now! Ian |
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