quote:

The Press have a huge influence over what the public thinks yet are fundamentally concerned only with selling their product with absolutely no concern for either reporting truth or acting responsibly. Their sheer hypocrisy knows no bounds.

So easy to shoot the messenger.

Politicians have a huge influence over the public,
yet are concerned only with trousering vast sums of money,
with no concern for either the truth or acting responsibly.
Their sheer hypocrisy knows no bounds.

If we had trustworthy politicians acting for the greater good we wouldn't need the media to dig & dish the dirt.

It seem`s like Gorbals mick is in for a kicking now. a house of card`s is coming down

quote:

Originally posted by 555:

quote:

The Press have a huge influence over what the public thinks yet are fundamentally concerned only with selling their product with absolutely no concern for either reporting truth or acting responsibly. Their sheer hypocrisy knows no bounds.

So easy to shoot the messenger.

Politicians have a huge influence over the public,
yet are concerned only with trousering vast sums of money,
with no concern for either the truth or acting responsibly.
Their sheer hypocrisy knows no bounds.

If we had trustworthy politicians acting for the greater good we wouldn't need the media to dig & dish the dirt.

They're not messagers of course - they're manipulators of facts to suit their own particular form of greed and ego.

In the case of The Daily Telegraph exposing corrupt MPs fraudulent expenses claims I disagree.
The DT has made enemies of all the major political parties.
Apart from yourself Tony, it seems likely many powerful people will be looking to get even with them.

Tony,
I understand what you've written about the press' motives. I also agree that the morality of some journalists, even Telegraph journalists, may be dubious. But I'm still glad the Telegraph broke this story. Are you?

Regards, Chris

Glad? That a crooked civil servant trousered £70K for information which was to become freely available in a few weeks anyway, and who also incidentally supplied personal details of government employees other than MPs to an outside agency?

Not glad; and perhaps I've grown too cynical in my old age but why is everyone so surprised about this? IMO there might have been more responsible ways of handling this, but sadly not so lucrative for the Daily Telegraph.

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But I'm still glad the Telegraph broke this story. Are you?

I understand Tony's point, but watching MPs squirm is great entertainment. It's shame there are people who crave power, pathetic really, but perhaps inevitable that those who gain positions of power are those least worthy. Still it is great to see the powerful ones descend in to the abyss. - I think it should be something we put in the 2012 Olympics - we'd be up for the Gold medal.

I'm probably a little bit cynical but if we can't have a laugh watching MPs as the press hound them then what is the point of MPs - without the comedy aspect the raison d'être is gone.

I mean I need a trouser press because you'd surely want me to look smart when representing you - classic comment even Russ Abbott OBE couldn't have written a better one liner.

ATB Rotf

This really is Daily Crucible stuff - excellent IMHO.

I thought the MP needed a trouser press to heat his Hobnobs.

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... information which was to become freely available in a few weeks ...

Not true!
The information to be published (after months of obstruction by the House of Commons authority)
will have much crucial information removed, most importantly which properties MPs claims relate to.

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... there might have been more responsible ways of handling this ...

There certainly were, but the MPs resisted all change so this is truly a scandal of their own making!

I've lived in the UK for a few years now and I still find it quite sad how the pubic perception is that MPs and civil servants are crooked and useless.

I do wonder if a lot of the moaners, would benefit from some travel to other less fortunate parts of the globe, to appreciate quite how good the government is here.

The tabloids of course, love to paint a different message.

I was listening to a Billy Bragg reading recently and he said exactly the same thing...Tory's, Labour, Lib Dem etc, they are all people who are in the job because they want a better world (they just go about it differently and have different definitions of what 'better' means). But they want a better world.

I work in the HoP from time to time, and I work with civil servants a lot. The thing that has struck me here is a)how hard both parties work and b)the quality of folk.

But the tabloids would likely disagree.

Now the expenses...it's a messy system. Why not give all MPs who would have a commute from their constituencies of greater than 1hr, £25k a year to rent/buy a base in London? Don't we want to attract quality folk to parliament? The least we can do is enable them to have a base in London to do their job.

The tabloids would hate the idea.

Maybe, the UK is actually not such a bad place, the NHS is not dire, the fact that more state school pupils now get to Oxbridge than public school pupils is a sign that state education has massively improved, the system of parliament is one of the best in the world.

The tabloids would likely say 'maybe not'.

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The tabloids of course, love to paint a different message

Not a moniker that I think Telegraph editor Will Lewis would agree with but I think your post is very fair Mat.

Best, Chris

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Don't we want to attract quality folk to parliament?

It'll never happen I'm afraid; never has, never will: nice idea though; you only have to look at the vultures we've got now: paid way over over the top for the value they bring - if we do away with their entertainment value then what have we got left - prime minister's question time is a joke.

They don't want to make a better a world IMHO, they want to the power and glory, and the money, of course.

I agree the UK is not such a bad place, but that is despite a load of greedy politicians.

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The least we can do is enable them to have a base in London to do their job.

They don't need it. They can video-conference from their constituency. This would be far more effective, as it would focus things more clearly and would enable only one person to speak at a time. I think we have to look at cutting the cost of government, not increasing it.

All tax payers' money that is spent should be traceable and it should be possible to view what it has been spent on. If the expense is not justified then it should not be paid. If they have to be in London then accommodation should be provided, but it should be a state-owned flat and no money should end up in the pocket of an MP. They cannot and should not be trusted - that's dangerous.

If they have claimed for a phantom mortgage then they should be prosecuted.

ATB Rotf
Candidate for the Guy Fawkes Appreciation Society.

Well you've got to have a sense perspective.

I don't agree with any of that ROTF, most of what we have is due to the folk who've trod the boards of Westminster over the past hundred years...the vast majority work too hard and care too much. Contrary to the media's portrayal.

People have, and continue to die in the streets for what we have.

I do like you're logic though

Posted on Page 1:-

"Far better for the state to provide each MP who lives more that (say) 60 minutes commute from Euston/Kings Cross/Liverpool Street/Waterloo/Canon Street/Blackfriars/Victoria/Paddington/Marlebone with a modest, rent-free home in Westminster for the duration of their term. Possibly."

Seems a similar idea to

"If they have to be in London then accommodation should be provided, but it should be a state-owned flat and no money should end up in the pocket of an MP."

I am still trying to visualise a video conference with 643 participants........

Cheers

Don

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I am still trying to visualise a video conference with 643 participants

No problem Don.
Other than Queens opening and PMQ's the place never has more than half a dozen or so attending.
Presumably the rest are struggling in some second home somewhere with these damn confusing expenses forms

To avoid abuse of the current system, I think it is a good idea to give them a fixed allowance depending on how far their constituencies from the Big Ben and a decent pay rise. It is not perfect but it prevents them from under / over-claiming.

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I am still trying to visualise a video conference with 643 participants

No problem Don.
Other than Queens opening and PMQ's the place never has more than half a dozen or so attending.

Your idea would no doubt suit Mr Martin, who could regain control at the flick of a (off) switch - even if he had to ask the Clerk which way to flick the switch!!!!!!

Cheers

Don

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our idea would no doubt suit Mr Martin,

Not now - he is the ex-Speaker - excellent more resignations to come and some prosecutions too - great stuff.

There's got to be an album in there somewhere

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... appreciate quite how good the government is here.

From the early 1990's until 2007 as part of my work I met many MPs, ministers, etc.
IME scratch the surface they are a bunch of power-hungry corrupt parasites,
although there were a couple of exceptions.

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... and some prosecutions too ...

When the police raid the House of Commons I hope they don't forget this outstanding prosecution ...

PD

Peter Viggers MP - For duck's sake!

Chris