I have been trying some Amarra software with my mac,'standard' itunes sounds really flat and dull when you turn Amarra off, I can't quite see how software can make a difference to sound quality? Apologies if this has been discussed before.H

Well they can dress it up any way they like but there is still equalisation going on.

Turn it off and bang up the mid and treble a bit on the itunes EQ and bam theres your sparkle.

TBH I don't have an issue with a little EQ where needed, but charging £800 for it is taking the piss a bit

I've got Amarra running at the moment - it certainly does something that iTunes doesn't and that's not down to a bit of equalisation. I must admit i was rather scecptical what this software would do but its rather impressive. The Weiss with Amarra is a rather formidable combination.

James

Nice to see that there's something to get the best from a freindly interface in MACs. I don't believe there's any EQ unless you choose it and that it probably bypasses the core mixer. Boy, did I get grief when I said Itunes was holding things back a bit.

Steinberg Wavelab is still the best sounding program that I've heard but it doesn't have this type of player integration so it's meaningless to consumers. Haven't heard Amarra but have heard other sonic studio software. If you don't need the added EQ etc features you can get these type of improvements in a PC with an ASIO connection from a player to the Weiss which I mention because I know that's what you guys are using or other interface that accepts it. Whether as good or not, I obviously don't know but I do know they can also be very good if done correctly.
As more of these things come out and get used, I suspect we'll all get closer in our opinions.

js -

iTunes sounds damn good. So if iTunes is holding back a Mac/DAC solution - then it just makes mine / James / DHT's systems even more compelling. I cannot wait to download and try this software.

Cheers

Richard

quote:

Originally posted by paremus:
js -

iTunes sounds damn good. So if iTunes is holding back a Mac/DAC solution - then it just makes mine / James / DHT's systems even more compelling. I cannot wait to download and try this software.

Cheers

Richard

I agree that it's the best standard interface solution, especially on a MAC. Those that can use ASIO from a PC can get more from MM, winamp or Foobar. Amarra is a great way to make the most comprehensive player work at the highest level. I haven't heard it but I'd suspect it does exactly as claimed and reported by members hear. You can disagree with what people don't hear as there can be associated influences but when something is heard you are no longer trying to prove a negetive and have to take it at it's word. I believe Amarra is as good as stated and partially because I knew that more performance was available from the platform.

Just watch, Naim will now make all this moot by introducing a DAC that puts everything right if the bits are there. LOL

That said, I don't think that's entirely possible so at best a DAC could only minimize differences.

I sort of thought that if the output was 'bit perfect' ( which I have always believed itunes to be ) then it could not be improved, why the difference, clever maths? H

Wow , $1495 is quite a wedge for software .

I have no experience with Macs and itunes but under windows XP I can't hear any difference among foobar, mediamonkey and jriver. I use jriver because of its bang of features and nice looking.
Upsampling through Jriver does make a difference to my ears. I think its upsampler is very good.
I don't know how Amarra could outperform other playback software, maybe Macs work in a completely different way.

I still don't really know other than perhaps jitter from the OS but I do know that I hear the same things you do with some of these solutions. I'm sure Amarra output is also bit perfect. I've contended that we can hear some buffers which are always bit perfect and again I don't know why. If Amarra has that capability to control the output buffer size play a bit and see is you can hear it. For instance, in a TC, you can change the software buffer for both output and error correction from PC interference. I need to turn of the wireless and plug into the wall on a up to date PC to not use an audible correction buffer. The Weiss must use this also but it doesn't need to be as audible as it's probably constant and well integrated. There's always trade offs and it sounds like Naim will also need a few buffers along with their DSP so it really has to be considered on an individual basis and in a lesser evil context.

I'm genuinely happy for you guys. The price could be better but if you want to use Itunes and I understand why you would, I think it could actually be cost effective. Players and interface make a difference.

quote:

Originally posted by goldfinch:
I have no experience with Macs and itunes but under windows XP I can't hear any difference among foobar, mediamonkey and jriver. I use jriver because of its bang of features and nice looking.
Upsampling through Jriver does make a difference to my ears. I think its upsampler is very good.
I don't know how Amarra could outperform other playback software, maybe Macs work in a completely different way.

I find them slightly different and more so via ASIO. I like the J.River interface but find it a little glassy if I'm picking nits.

js -

Suspect you are right - OS jitter would seem to be the only sensible argument. It might also help explain why why people with older machines reported less satisfactory results; i.e. in real time coarser grained thread scheduling as CPU speed is lower - just speculation.

Cheers

Price aside (i managed to get on the early programme ) its frustrating not quite understanding why its doing what it does. It's difficult enough to get (informed) info on how iTunes works with core audio and quick time as all the forums are full of speculation on how things work.

For those with Macs - well worth downloading the demo to see what you think.

James.

quote:

Originally posted by james n:
Price aside (i managed to get on the early programme ) its frustrating not quite understanding why its doing what it does. It's difficult enough to get (informed) info on how iTunes works with core audio and quick time as all the forums are full of speculation on how things work.

For those with Macs - well worth downloading the demo to see what you think.

James.

I wonder if the difference will be as notable for TOS out users. It is possible to access that output outside the OS but I have no idea if they're doing it. If you're using Amarra, try it out the TOS. I'm sure you'll still prefer the 1394.

The website seems to imply you need a USB dongle to use the demo?

I was not aware core audio was even 'working' yet, this is coming in with Snow Leopard no?

I am on the AppleSeed for Snowleopard so might stick it my hifi mini and see what it sounds like.

quote:

Originally posted by garyi:
The website seems to imply you need a USB dongle to use the demo?

I was not aware core audio was even 'working' yet, this is coming in with Snow Leopard no?

I am on the AppleSeed for Snowleopard so might stick it my hifi mini and see what it sounds like.

No.

You need a dongle for the licensed product only, you can use it in demo mode without the dongle.

Actually I had the demo version and now have the fully licensed version too. It sounds really good and even better if you have more than 2 GB of RAM and most modern CPUs. Now I am using it on a brand new Mac Mini with 128 GB SSD and 4 GB RAM and to different DAC through the Toslink and I seem to like the sound, I tried it with the Konnekt, then even bigger difference. It even worked with the big 8 channel Firewire connected Mytek 192ADDA.

It is a God send for me, as I have hundreds of different sample rate original recordings (few TBs now), so I do not need to change it accordingly in the Audio Midi Setup app.

It is bloody expensive. Yes. But it proves how many things are not known in case of a computer - based or IT-based audio system.

FWIW Wavelab are reportedly working on similar.

quote:

Originally posted by Eric Barry:
FWIW Wavelab are reportedly working on similar.

If it can use the iTunes library as Amarra is doing it is very good news. Without at least similar playlist capability only the better sound will not sell it in quantity.

That's great news. Nice to have options and I agree about the utility needing to be there but I suspect this will be it's function.

quote:

Originally posted by paremus:
I cannot wait to download and try this software.

I dont believe it is quite that simple. I am guessing you need to contact a dealer, and buy a USB Dongle. Software this pricey is not available to "download" typically. Anyway, are you going to submit a credit card payment, online, for $1400?!?!? For software you have never seen, heard and played with?

Crazy.

No one should be buying this. silly.

2cents
-p

what could it possibly be doing that requires 2gb of RAM?

My lord, iTunes is resource intensive enough, no reason to make it worse.

If iTunes needs this to sounds its best, I would move away from iTunes. Songbird is pretty sexy for Mac.

Foobar is a no-brainer for PC.

Free downloads are available but the sound cuts out every 30 seconds, there is also I believe a 14 free trial of the full software, it is so much better than standard itunes, turn it off and everything sounds so flat.

At 1400 dollars mate I would want it to sort out my accounts and make my dinner.

Don't be a chump.

quote:

Originally posted by DHT:
everything sounds so flat.

Something else is going on here. iTunes is a bit perfect player and shouldn't need anything else.

Sounds like a $1500 "loudness" button to me.

My set is pretty simple standard fair using iTunes.

I would hate anything to be [more] exagerated. Flat is not how I would call it ...

But sometimes reality is flatter than you think! Try a real concert in a great concert hall. It may surprise you how unexpected the result may be after really Hifi replay has conditioned you ...

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:

quote:

Originally posted by DHT:
everything sounds so flat.

Something else is going on here. iTunes is a bit perfect player and shouldn't need anything else.

Sounds like a $1500 "loudness" button to me.

Actually it has a very advanced EQ, but you do not have to use it, if you do not want. As default it is off.

Why not just try it - if you don't think its for you then you've not lost anything. I'm very happy with what it does

James -

A couple of quick question re Amarra.

How much memory do you have in your Mac Mini - also what file format are you using?

Cheers

Richard

quote:

Originally posted by paremus:
James -

A couple of quick question re Amarra.

How much memory do you have in your Mac Mini - also what file format are you using?

Cheers

Richard

I am not James, but let me share my experience.

I tried Amarra with a white Macbook/1 GB RAM, then a black Macbook/2 GB and now it runs on a brand new Mac Mini with 4 GB RAM and 128 GB SSD storage.

I have all kinds of files from 44.1k/16 bit up to 192k/24 bit, mainly AIFF and some WAV. No problem with using a Konnekt8 (firewire conencted), or Mytek 96DAC and Lavry DA10 through the Toslink out and worked fine with a firewire connected big 8 channel Mytek 192ADDA.

All combination sounds really good, but the SSD driven Mac Mini is mighty fine with the big firewire connected Mytek converter and Amarra. All the D/As were connected to my pro amps and speakers using balanced XLR connection so YMMV i a Naim system.

The Macs with 1 GB RAM had only a problem when I tried to play ALE then switch back to a high - resolution WAV or AIFF file. Amarra had to be closed and restarted to work properly in this case, otherwise it worked well with 1 GB RAM.

I'm running 1GB ram at the moment. Its getting more in the next couple of weeks (read the Amarra manual and saw 3GB was recommended. Not having any problems with it (its dedicated to music anyway with spotlight and dashboard disabled so no memory hogging activities running). Actually the only problem i had was with some Naim downloads which turned out to be due to the 1.8MB album art !

All files AIFF - i don't bother with compression to avoid any excess loads due to on the fly decompression.

James