Dear All

To finish off my LP12 upgrades I will at most need a new arm and moving coil cartridge. I must say that I've never owned a moving coil cartridge and would be interested if anyone could provide comments/links about the benefits over moving magnet systems. At the moment I have a Linn Adikt which is less than 1 year old.

As I'm sure you can all appreciate, a home demo of various Arms and Moving Coil cartridges is not achievable (as well as fitting a prefix). Correct me if you think that I'm wrong here.

My goal would be Ekos-II, Akiva with prefix. I am very wary to go all the way here.

Other options are to keep the Ittok LV III (the version with arm holder not like EKOS, i.e. cut armboard) and use Ortofon Kontrapunkt B or Transfiguration Spirit. I have heard people talk about the Ortofon and my dealer said the Transfiguration spirit produced excellent results. What do you sll think to this?

Any other suggestions for arms and cartridges would be appreciated.

Basically, I really like the way CDS3 produces music, so that anything that is in line with this would be the best from my point of view.

Regards
Mark

Mark

If you don't play lots of 45s I would go with the Aro - in my view it's miles better than the Ekos, and perhaps couple it with an Ortofon SPU Royal N, which has received lots of favourable comments.

Until last summer I had an LP12, Geddon, Aro, Prefix, Arkiv B and it was absolutely fantastic, but I simply wasn't using it enough, so I sold it and my CDX2 to buy the CDS3.

How much you spend depends in part on how much you use the LP12, but the setup I had makes perfect sense in a Naim system.

Nigel

Mark
This thread actually preempted one which I was going to start which would have been titled "Add me to the Aro contingent"
I was prepared to make an upgrade along the lines of separates to replace my Nait5. My CD5 was upgraded to a CDX2 6 months ago and I thought my LP12 was rather set - LP12(new)/Lingo2/Ittok2/Adikt. A conversation with my dealer reiterated the concept of source first and as such I decided to hold off on a move to separates and instead audition tonearms. This past Friday I had a very enjoyable 4 hour sessions comparing two LP12 decks - one outfitted with an Ekos2 and the other with an Aro (I am quite fortunate enough to have a local dealer with these capabilities).

As Nigel mentioned in the previous post you really should audition an Aro. My audition resulted in its purchase. The Ekos2 is an exceptionally fine tonearm and I could definitely hear the family resemblance to my Ittok - just that the Ekos was BETTER!. My audition actually started off listening to the Aro for an LP side and then moving to the same side on the Ekos. My "initial" impression after the very first listen was - well the Ekos is quite nice - the bass and the sound in general was quite punchy and strong. The demo continued and as we all know it takes a bit of time to relax-get used to the surroundings (different from ones home listening room) and things proceeded until suddenly everything fell into place when on one song the Aro completely demonstrated its superiority. After that one song the Aro just ran away with everything else that followed. It might sound cliche (and I am a relative newbie) however it is true what many have said about the Aro - it PLAYS MUSIC. I listen primarily to old soul recordings from the late 60's early 70's and the difference was quite dramatic. With the Aro the music just weaved and flowed together unlike the Ekos2 (it actually sounded like a different band was playing). The band played together better as a unit. The lead singers voice also became more mellifluous and sweeter. The Ekos started to sound almost too strong and dynamic - maybe to the point of becoming fatiguing after an extended listen.

I know it sounds strange however I came to understand what everyone has been saying about this tonearm - actually it was quite apparent. The demo came to a close rather early on because after the initial listen the differences magically became quite apparent and just continued on from there. Add my name to the list of Aro converts.

Enjoy
Gregg

Hi mark.Going from a mm to an mc cartridge,especially an akiva/prefix would be a massive upgrade.Demoing cartridges will be a pain in the butt, & with a prefix & naim amp you have to have the right boards for the cartridges output.For the level of upgrade, it's got to be worth the hassle.(try to enjoy the hassle if thats possible,it'll make it easier).Detail,musicality,bass,mid,top,sweetness,just everything is better with an mc,imho.Cheers, matt. cartridge

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Originally posted by hungryhalibut:
Mark

If you don't play lots of 45s I would go with the Aro - in my view it's miles better than the Ekos, .........

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Nigel,
What is it about an ARO which makes it less desirable with 45s? As someone contemplating buying one (and with a couple of hundred 45s) I'm a little confused

Reginald

Reginald

I see what you mean - what I meant was if you don't play lots of 45s you should get an Armageddon!!

Nevertheless I am hopeless at cueing the Aro to tracks near the middle, so I would hate playing 45s with one.

Nigel

Phew! Thanks, Nigel Its taken me quite a while to decide to plump for the ARO, and the thought of going through more demos.....!

Reginald

Hi All,

138 or so looks and only 4 replies , but thanks for the replies

Nigel, what about aromatic, does it mess the aro up? or is this worth looking at? This is one thing that puts me off the aro. I did listen to an aro on LP12 (can't remember cartridge) in audio x in Bristol, but I did'nt really get much of a listen since I was checking out/buying the CDX2 at the time. A steady hand is required.

Gregg you are almost in the same boat as me w.r.t. LP12,Lingo2,Ittok,adikt. How do you get on with Lingo2 and ARO? Do you also use 45 RPM? Do you have the aromatic?

Regards
Mark

Mark

I believe the received wisdom is that the Aromatic is a waste of time. You do develop a steady hand very quickly, and as you are 18 months younger than me you should have no problems.

I would be a little dubious about the compatability of the Lingo and the Aro - I found the Geddon to be more to my taste and a great combination with the Aro.

Nigel

Mark
During my demo the topic of the aromatic came up and my dealer told me to completely forget about it. I never used the tonearm lift on my Ittok and as such I am used to droping the tonearm down with my finger. I was already getting the hang of the Aro during my demo. My dealer also taught me a clever trick - hit the mute switch when you drop or lift the tonearm - then you do not hear anything!

When I discussed the concept of a Lingo2 vs. a Geddon (I already own the Lingo2) he said that changing to a Geddon would not accomplish much. My demo was heard through a Lingo2 and things sounded quite good to me! Possibly Nigel is referring to the Lingo1 and not the Lingo2 which is supposed to be significantly better.

On a side note - an interesting comment was made to me by someone at NANA when I was speaking with them about another matter. They mentioned that my Aro had already shipped out and it had been a while since the last time they had shipped any out. He said that I was smart to have purchased it. It was alluded to the fact that it was an amazing component in a market which was shrinking. It almost sounded to me like he was begining to question how much longer Naim would continue to manufacture it. That is at least the subtle impression which I got.

Gregg

PS You really should demo it - once I was able to focus in on the difference it was truly a revelation!

Mark,

If you've never had an MC you're in for a big surprise. Audition carefully and at length before you commit as many tend to have a rising HF response and, whilst initially impressive, become tiring over time. Not true of Linn MCs though in my experience.

The stuff of which you speak (Akiva etc)is fairly stratospheric. You may well find that just changing your Stageline for a MC version and fitting a decent MC to your existing LP12 (which is not too shabby by any standards) will achieve wonderful results without spending a fortune. My own LP12/LVII/OC9II never fails to please, in fact it's my best source by miles.

I also have a Karma which is currently being refurbished with a sapphire cantilever, Garrot line contact stylus and other assorted tweakery. I'm really looking forward to getting it back, but even if it's not as fabulous as promised I'll still have an excellent source(and a spare Karma!)

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I would be a little dubious about the compatability of the Lingo and the Aro - I found the Geddon to be more to my taste and a great combination with the Aro.

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I've been running a Lingo1 LP12 with an ARO since '99, no problem at all. I've said this in another thread but it's worth repeating, in my opinion the ARO is Naims best product.


An important thing to remember when considering an Armageddon PS for a Sondek is the motor relies on the accuracy of the mains frequency for it's speed stability, if your mains is ok, then so will your LP12. Before I had mine "Lingo'd" I was using a Valhalla, which had severe off days which disappeared completely with the arrival of the Lingo.

Gregg,

What cartridges were used for your dem?

cheers,

Julian.

now 82/135's

Julian
I had my dealer fit two Adikts - one to each turntable (quite nice to have a dealer with several LP12's and an Aro and Ekos2 in house!). The reason for this is that I will be keeping my Adikt which is 1 year old. This was the original cartridge recommended to me when I bought the Linn last year. Even at last weeks demo my dealer still maintained that the Adikt is one of the best value cartridges out there. He said that it could easily have cost $700 no problem (it presently retails for $325 here in the States). The decks were run through gear meant to replicate my Nait5 ie a 150X/112X and a Stageline. The LP12 was powered by a Lingo2. Demo speakers were Linn Katan's (actually quite nice). Afterwards I was treated to listening to the LP12/Aro through some Allae speakers and then a pair of Arrivas. At the end we pulled the Preamp out and ran everything through a 282/SuperCap and the Katans. Not shabby at all!

Gregg

Hi Mark,

Of course you appreciate it's not about which arm is definitively "the best" but which arm is best for you. Both Ekos and Aro are terrific in their on ways but you have GOT to hear them for yourself to decide.

I say this because Greg's experience was the opposite of mine although I can absolutely hear where he's coming from and I have to say I could happily live with either.

It might be worth your while considering where you're going to go when you ultimately upgrade your cartridge and add a phono stage. If you are thinking Akiva as you say, and it's a magical performer, the Ekos is the optimal choice. If you go down the Dynavector route, the Te Kaitora, for example, sounds fabulous in the Aro. I've recently decided on adding an Akiva in preference to the Te Kaitora, the Akiva being one of those products that excites you as soon as you hear it. I spent more time deliberating over which phono stage but found that here too, the Akiva guided me in the direction of a Prefix (or, rather surprisingly a Linto, which I'd not really cared for in the past). If I had chosen the Te Kaitora, I'd have gone for a P75.

Hear both, then decide.

Cheers

Dave

Mark

You have an all naim system. If you want to keep the naim sound as much as possible it's worth to try an Aro. With Aro and Prefix you will follow the naim philosophy: cables, design, etc.

This I had in mind, when I bought recently LP12/Prefix/Aro/Geddon/Akiva. I don't know, if the Akiva is the best match for the Aro, but I'm very pleased with the results.

Emil

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If you want to keep the naim sound as much as possible it's worth to try an Aro.

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I don't think the ARO has "a sound". For me the differences between ARO & Ekos are pretty straightforward, the ARO does music, the Ekos does HiFi, simple as that.

Thanks for the additional replies.

I have asked my dealer about the possibility to make a few demos, listed as follows:-

(1) Keep the Ittok3 and add prefix+Ortofon Kontrapunkt B
(2) Prefix+Ekos2+Akiva
(3) Prefix+ARO+ortofon kontrapunkt B

Reading http://www.moving-coil-cartridges.com/ortofon-mc.htm, the "Ortofon cartridges are highly regarded and particularly suited to systems that need less bass and more transparency"

Not sure how this would fit with an ARO into my system and I've read on this forum that it works very well with an Ittok and again how this would fit into my system.

Option 2 should be no problem to demo.

The question is, is it really too much to expect to ask a dealer to home demo several arm and cartridge options on my LP12?


Looking forward to more ideas

Regards
Mark

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The question is, is it really too much to expect to ask a dealer to home demo several arm and cartridge options on my LP12?

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Considering the ARO or Ekos are about £1400 apiece, throw in a £1000+ for the cartridge, then no, it isn't too much to expect a decent dem.

Gregg – Cheers for the info (a ‘well equipped’ dealer is truly essential, oh err misses.)

I recently had some ‘issues’ with my own LP12, since resolved. During the resolution I dem’ed the dealers Circus’d LP12, Ekos II, Akiva, Linto, Lingo II, against my own Non Circus’d LP12, Ekos I, Klyde, Prefix k, Hicap, Lingo II. This lot played through a 282, supercap, 250-2, and some B&W stand mounters, they were around 3 grand’s worth (GBP). We listened to a dozen or so tracks. The Klyde etc stood up remarkably well to the Akiva etc, in many instances but on a couple of tracks, notably Linn’s own pressing of the “Blue Nile – A Walk Across The Roof Tops” the song sounded like a totally different one; a most bizarre experience. The general impression of the dealers deck was that it sounded less hurried and at the same time brighter, it also cut through the vagaries of a poor pressing more pleasingly. When a record was well produced, pressed and preserved the differences between the two decks seemed smaller. Where the dealer deck reigned was when the going got tougher and the music extraction process was more demanding.

It seems a shame home dem’ing a variety of cartridges is so difficult, this seems one of the failings of the current market, given how influential a cartridge is on the final sound.
Best regards,


Julian

now 82/135's