Tagged With "CDX2"

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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

DT79 ·
I have spent a couple of interesting days recently trying my mate's AE1s in my system to see what a smaller speaker would do, and visiting local dealers for recommendations of alternate speakers. The AE1s are great little speakers and there is something inherently 'right' about their sound, which I think comes from their even-handedness and overall balance. Certainly they have less bass output that my Neats and from that perspective I think they were better suited to my room, so it looks as...
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

novak ·
Originally Posted by DT79: I have spent a couple of interesting days recently trying my mate's AE1s in my system to see what a smaller speaker would do, and visiting local dealers for recommendations of alternate speakers. The AE1s are great little speakers and there is something inherently 'right' about their sound, which I think comes from their even-handedness and overall balance. Certainly they have less bass output that my Neats and from that perspective I think they were better suited...
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

Christopher_M ·
Dan, You must have done that experiment by now?! Chris
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

DT79 ·
Chris - sorry, in the middle of a hectic few days. Will try ASAP and report back. BTW I have also decided to try switching off as much other crap which is connected to the mains as possible at the same time. Also picked up Richard's anecdote from another thread about a power conditioner merely being present on the mains as having a detrimental effect, so going to try my Naims on a standard extension both with and without the Isotek plugged in for my other components. I appreciate the advice...
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

DT79 ·
Hi everyone - I’ve been experimenting with the mains this evening as suggested by Christopher_M, to see if stripping things back to basics will reveal anything useful. I chose the following 3 tracks to test with: 1. Next Girl by The Black Keys as a test of bass control and proportion, and PRAT 2. The Fletcher Memorial Home by Pink Floyd as a test of dynamics 3. No Light, No Light by Florence and the Machine as a test of treble smoothness/listenability under increased volume Test 1 - normal...
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

Dave J ·
It's understandable that you don't want to change the amp in which case maybe check out Spendor SA1, NSats and ATC SCM7s. I heard the SA1s fronted by a S/nait in a small room and they sounded great; nice and dynamic and not "small" sounding, despite limited bass.
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

Christopher_M ·
Hi Dan, And thanks for doing some experiments! If you check my first post you'll see it wasn't quite what I suggested ( ) but it seems you may have reached a fairly useful sort of conclusion. You seem keen to change speakers, fair enough. Like others, I suggest non-ported designs. Cheers, Chris edit: TBH I would still try bog standard mains block, no HC and no straws first. Who knows? your speakers may be brilliant in a more spartan system?
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

hastings ·
Definitely a speaker issue. I would put (mini) monitors on your short list - something built to sing in a small room (possibly from Harbeth/Spendor). I have a small room and as much a I like bass I find it a liability.
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

DT79 ·
Dave J - good suggestions. A mate did bring his Acoustic Energy AE1 classics over a while back which are pretty dinky and they sounded really good - certainly not suffering the same bass issue, although I didn't get the chance to have an extended listen. He's between places right now, so I've asked if i can borrow them to try out - it should help to confirm that a speaker change is what's needed. Chris - I did do the experiment with the straws removed, but the reason that i didn't remove the...
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

Hungryhalibut ·
I still say try some SBLs or IBLs. Both are great speakers and should not have excessive bass. Somehow the flavour of the month manufacturers have deluded people into thinking good sound is all about bass. Hopefully the fad will pass.
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

DT79 ·
Originally Posted by Lord Emsworth: I still say try some SBLs or IBLs. Both are great speakers and should not have excessive bass. Somehow the flavour of the month manufacturers have deluded people into thinking good sound is all about bass. Hopefully the fad will pass. I would love to do that, or even to try any Naim speakers, so I will keep my eyes peeled. If there's something on ebay that i should be able to get my money back on if it doesn't suit, then I might have a punt, but...
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

Hungryhalibut ·
Where are you based?
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

DT79 ·
Bournemouth, Dorset, UK
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

Hungryhalibut ·
Ah so not the back of beyond then. Billy Vee in Lewisham had (may still have) some SBLs at a good price. If you fancy an hour's drive to Emsworth you can sample the old ibbles, and a cup of tea if you are lucky.
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

DT79 ·
Thanks for the kind offer, I may well take you up on that The trouble with buying speakers is that in order to demo them in any meaningful way you have to do so at home, and that kind of rules out any dealers that are outside of a reasonable driving distance (and then only if they would be happy to let you have them from at least one weekend to the next) and of course you need the time for a trip to the dealer on 2 consecutive weekends. It's good fun though, i'm quite looking forward to it ...
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

novak ·
DT79 - I remember your advice when I was looking into a similar range of speakers, one option being the Neat 3i. I did find these very heavy on the bass when I had a demo in a similarly sized room. The treble also felt a little sharp, but saying that, they were one of the better models I tried. They weren't for me, but the B&W PM1 might fit your brief. They lacked serious weight IMO but had some really nice clarity, and might suit you well. As I mentioned on forum before, I found the...
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

Massimo Bertola ·
Hi, too many posts to read so I'll probably double opinions, but I would surely add a s/h XPS-2 to the CDX2, would probably add a HiLine (with a little patience you can find s/h ones, too) and would consider a single good power strip fed with either a PowerLine or a run of simple, 3x2.5 silicone mains cord and a robust wall plug. As for the speakers, sorry but I don't know any Neat personally but you seem to favor ideally those sonic traits that Naim speakers deliver, so why not consider -...
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

Christopher_M ·
Dan, I don't want to deny your experience with the HC. It's just that my experience of it in this small room is that among other things, it slows the bass, which is what I perceive your problem to be. Hence my suggestion to remove it, along with straws and Isotek, to head for a faster more raw sound. Psychologically though, I can acknowledge that 'less can be more' is a difficult place to be in. I'm a great believer in simple systems. The sound of CD5i, Nait5i and n-Sats or Arivas at my...
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

Mike-B ·
DT, I think one of your problems is your room, in fact I think its the main issue 3.7 x.3.7 is a square & as Richard has already said, not great for acoustics The square sides reinforce the room axial mode so it has a very strong axial mode - like double strong - at 152Hz. This is the upper end of mid bass & dependant on your speaker / listening position distance will probably be associated with a strong suck-out around 110Hz making the very strong 152Hz bass become very prominent.
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

DT79 ·
Originally Posted by Mike-B: DT, I think one of your problems is your room, in fact I think its the main issue 3.7 x.3.7 is a square & as Richard has already said, not great for acoustics The square sides reinforce the room axial mode so it has a very strong axial mode - like double strong - at 152Hz. This is the upper end of mid bass & dependant on your speaker / listening position distance will probably be associated with a strong suck-out around 110Hz making the very strong 152Hz...
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

Mike-B ·
DT, the HC does add a lot of refinment & deatil, but IMO is a bit too much in the mid bass area. My guess is you will miss the refinement it brings so maybe better stick first with your idea to find speakers that are less bass prominent. Re the PMC TB2+, transmission lines are funny things, I've made a few & found them very frustrating to tune in my small workshop. I've found they don't really come alive unless they are working in a room with an acoustic mode close to the...
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

DT79 ·
Originally Posted by Mike-B: DT, the HC does add a lot of refinment & deatil, but IMO is a bit too much in the mid bass area. My guess is you will miss the refinement it brings so maybe better stick first with your idea to find speakers that are less bass prominent. Re the PMC TB2+, transmission lines are funny things, I've made a few & found them very frustrating to tune in my small workshop. I've found they don't really come alive unless they are working in a room with an acoustic...
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

Stormange ·
I used to have a bass boom problem with my LP12, SN+Hc and Royd RR1 setup. My room is 3,7x4,2 m, ie not a square room like yours. Changing to SBLs helped a lot. Now after finetuning the speaker position it sounds fantastic. No excess in the bass department whatsoever.
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

Hook ·
DT - Is setting up on the diagonal an option for you? Before moving into my 9.5'x11.5' room, I tried the spare bedroom next door. It was 11.5'x11.5'. I enjoyed the extra space, but even with my old C7's....oh the bass! Setting up on the diagonal helped a lot, and I was able to get pretty good sound. But I finally decide that moving to the smaller (more rectangular) room was a better idea. Room treatments then helped a lot too. Good luck! Hook
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

DT79 ·
Originally Posted by Hook: DT - Is setting up on the diagonal an option for you? Before moving into my 9.5'x11.5' room, I tried the spare bedroom next door. It was 11.5'x11.5'. I enjoyed the extra space, but even with my old C7's....oh the bass! Setting up on the diagonal helped a lot, and I was able to get pretty good sound. But I finally decide that moving to the smaller (more rectangular) room was a better idea. Room treatments then helped a lot too. Good luck! Hook Good idea but...
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

Hungryhalibut ·
You absolutely have to try some Naim speakers; the offer is open, if only to rule them out.
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

DT79 ·
Cheers Lord E, I will take you up on your kind offer. I will send you a message in the new year to set something up. Much appreciated. Intrigued to hear some Naim speakers!
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

Hungryhalibut ·
Let me have your email and I'll drop you a line.
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

rackkit ·
Originally Posted by DT79: Cheers Lord E, I will take you up on your kind offer. I will send you a message in the new year to set something up. Much appreciated. " Intrigued to hear some Naim speakers!" It'll be interesting to hear what you think of them.
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

Hungryhalibut ·
Get an XPS. Swap the CDX2 for a CDS3. Sell the Neats. Get some SBLs or IBLs. Well under budget. Sorted.
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

james n ·
Dan - I'd get the speaker situation sorted first. Anything else won't sort out the bass issue and any short term gains will lead to long term dissatisfaction due to the speaker / room interaction. James
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

Christopher_M ·
Hi Dan, I'm not in a position to offer final upgrade advice but if I were you, I would want to examine first the combined effects of: * A cheapy mains extension instead of Isotek * Removal of HC * Removal of drinking straws It's easy to think that we can have better sound through spending more but I think the core of our system has to be right first, and from what you've eloquently expressed above, I'm not sure that yours is. Best, Chris
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

Hungryhalibut ·
Reflecting further, you will never be happy if you have to constantly fiddle about with drinking straws. Life's too short! You need a system you can fit and forget. I agree that the conditioner should go. Get a Grahams hydra with an extra long lead, which will do the job fine. Then set about finding some speakers. You don't need to spend much if you choose carefully. NSats are another potential option. Where are you based - there may be another Forum member's setup you could listen to.
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

Pedro ·
Completely agree with the suggestion that you get rid of that Isotek thingy and get yourself a Graham's Hydra. Once you've done that, you have a number of options and a problem to deal with. The initial thinking would be to replace the speakers, but I would be looking at your source. The CDS3 has already been suggested, and it's what I would put at the top of my shortlist. You'll obviously need the XPS2 as well, but I would bet that sorts your system out. CDS3s are still to be had for great...
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

-goat- ·
A friend of mine just swapped in some S400s for his Neat 3is and is very pleased with the results. His issues with the 3is were very similar to your (oversized bass mainly) as was his system (CDS3/SN/HC). Apparently the S400 work surprisingly well in small rooms. Should be worth s shot. Although, if changing to some S/H speakers leaves funds left over for another black box that could be well worth investigating. You mention the "live energy" or music... Naim speakers should be right up your ...
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

TomK ·
I don't know much about most of your gear so I could only suggest an XPS2 and that will take your CDX2 to a much higher level. Before that I'd suggest you work out exactly why you want to upgrade i.e. what's wrong with what you have? You don't say what you reckon needs improving. Spending a few grand now because you think you may not have the opportunity in the future is not the best reason to upgrade unless there's something that really isn't working for you.
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

mikapoh ·
Dan, you have already stated your main problems are ear piercing sound and excessive bass boom in the small room. If I were you, I would first channel my effort to tackle these issues before start thinking of cables or other electronics. Obviously speakers need to be replaced with those that can interact well with your room. There are many good quality speakers in the market, and all you need is to find the suitable one. For example, you need to get those speakers designed for close field...
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

Hook ·
Hi DT79 - Am enjoying the Ovator 400's very much in my 9.5'x11.5' room. My previous speakers were Harbeth C7's, and the reason I moved to the 400's was their bass performance. They've made me want to re-listen to all of my jazz records -- the standing bass lines have never sounded better! I really do believe that if you are looking for a one and done, speakers are your best bet. But I would also listen to Lord E and Pedro, and get a pure distribution block with no power conditioning built...
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

mikapoh ·
Hook, do you encounter any bass boom problems for the Ovator 400s in your room size? Judging from the photo, they certainly make their physical size felt. And I thought they need bigger space to breathe. Maybe your room has good bass treatment. Glad they really work out for you.
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

DT79 ·
Thank you all for the replies. There is a lot of great advice in there and I need to mull it all over, but there are come immediate themes coming through. First of all the Grahams Hydra seems to be widely recommended. It's not going to be easy, because I also have a number of home cinema components and i would have to trail an extension from the other side of the room (where the sockets are already being used), but nevertheless, if needs must, I will try to find a way. Does anyone know, if I...
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

likesmusic ·
Be radical. Go active. Klein Hummel O300s. Active, 3 way compact studio monitors. bass/mid/treble adjustments for room placement, including close to a wall for your current place, and free-space if you move to a bigger one. Radically lowers your box count. You'll need a pre-amp or DAC with balanced outputs.
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

Richard Dane ·
Dan, remove the power conditioner and your system should sing. However, I reckon the problems you are encountering are probably due to the system being in a fairly small square room. Square rooms sound pretty hellish and need all kinds of work to get sounding right. If the floor to ceiling height is similar to the room wall length then you're is serious trouble. A change of speakers may be in order, mainly because it's best not to excite the room too much in the low frequencies. If it were...
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

DT79 ·
Further to my above question about unused lines on the hydra; better still could I use one of the lines to power the isotek, which would have my Home cinema components on it? Would that have any detrimental effect on the sound of the Naim components connected to the other hydra lines? That would be by far the most practical compromise.
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

Richard Dane ·
Dan, remove the power conditioner and your system should sing. However, I reckon the problems you are encountering are probably due to the system being in a fairly small square room. Square rooms sound pretty hellish and need all kinds of work to get sounding right. If the floor to ceiling height is similar to the room wall length then you're is serious trouble. A change of speakers may be in order, mainly because it's best not to excite the room too much in the low frequencies. If it were...
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

DT79 ·
Richard - thanks for the reply. As much as I would love to change the room that's some way off, and a very big part of the reason why these will be that last changes for some time! The room isn't quite a cube, the ceilings are about 2.5m high i think. I tend to concur about the speakers, so I think that's where I'm going to concentrate after getting the hydra and getting used to that.
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

Hungryhalibut ·
Hydras come with the wording on them that they should only be used with Naim components. I suspect that is for the star earthing. My advice is get rid of the Isotek altogether and use a hydra for the Naim and a bog standard extension for the other stuff. People have said that unused hydra heads can pick up RF, but I have never had that problem.
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

Christopher_M ·
Dan wrote: there seems to be a division of opinion over how I'll resolve the issues with the characteristics of the sound with some people clearly going for a source-first approach an others blaming the speakers (which I have to admit is where I've tended to place the blame). Not everyone Dan! One of us is is advocating checking how your system would sound if it were simpler and less refined first . Has the added benefit of being 5 mins work. What's on the wall behind your head? If nothing,...
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

DT79 ·
Thanks Chris I will try what you've suggested, once the hydra comes. It makes sense to experiment as much as I can before throwing money at it.
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

Christopher_M ·
Ok. But I'd do it now before any hydra. I mean what if the three changes I mentioned in my first post actually nailed it and put the spark back?! Would you still want a hydra? C.
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Re: Help with one last upgrade (for at least 5 years)

911gt3r ·
One last upgrade....................been there a few times , tehe !!!!!! Peter
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