CDS3 vs CDX/XPS

Posted by: greeny on 14 June 2003

Ok so I've finally been for a CDS3 demo.

My home system is CDX/XPS 82/SC 135s SBL's, the demo system was 282/Hi/new250/SBL.

I took along my CDX and XPS so we could try a few different combinations.

So first combination CDX/XPS 82/Hi/250/SBL. The main music used in the demo was:
calexico - Feast of Wire
Jamiroquai - Emergency on Planet earth
Jill Scott - This is Jill Scott
PJ Harvey - Stories...
RHCP - Californication

The first thing to say amout the sound was that the balance was slightly less forward than my home system, this was better on the PJ Harvey Album , but probably worse on the

Jamiroquai. Overall very similar sounding to my home system and pretty good.

First Change XPS -> XPS2.
This had a good worthwhile improvement, There wasn't a fundamental improvement in the sound but notes were given more texture and feel whilst retaining the overall sound balance. Several swops back and forth confirmed the extra level of subtelty added especially to acoustic guitar and vocals.

So next change, CDX -> CDS3, now expectations were high and encouraged by the improvements to the XPS I sat back and waited to be impressed.
Well first impresions were underwhelming. It certainly sounded different, but was it better?

Now to put this in context, I've only had a CD player a few years, most of my listening was via LP12/Lingo/Ittok/Lyra Lydian, but come the mid nineties there was just too much stuff I couldn't get on LP so I had to buy a CD player, I bought the Best £1000 CD player I could (a CD3) this at least allowed me to buy CD's but I just didn't enjoy them, compaired to the LP12 there was just too much missing, come 2000 I decided I had to get a CD player to compete with the LP12, and that was CDX/XPS, the CD3 ->CDX/XPS improvement for me was fundamental and allowed me to enjoy CD's as much (almost) as LPs. Similarly a couple of 552 demo's at shows and HiFi evenings have shown me what a fundamental change a 52 -> 552 can make. But with CDX -> CDS3 the sounds was different but how much better?

I've got to admit I'm not usually one for picking out immediate differences between components (52->552 and CD3->CDX/XPS excepted) I usually have to spend 20 minutes plus to actually start getting into the music. So leaving the CDS3 in place we just played some music after that we then swopped back to the CDX/XPS, well this time I could appreciate the improvement a bit more, for me the best way to describe the CDS3 is more organic, any final hints of digital glare present on the CDX were gone, and instruments were fleshed out more this had a strange side affect in that on the CDs3 there seemed less space around the instruments. Basically on the CDx an acoustic guitar you can here the string twang, the finger on the frets and the notes come forth, on the CDS3 as well as this you get the feel of the vibrations from the guitar body, this has the affect of widening the sound image. Yes this was definately pretty good. But was it worth £4750, I was undecided.

Then the wild card, We put on a bare CDX2. Well what a suprise, this sounds more like the CDS3 than the CDX/XPS (in a good way), that organic quality is there, definately slightly smoother and less forthright. So what am I saying? Is the CDX2 better than the CDX/XPS? Well I don't know, the presentation is certainly different.

We then spent the next 1/2 hour listening to the CDX2 -> CDX2/XPS -> CDX3/XPS, this was now easy, there is a clear improvement in each step, I couldn't consider getting the CDX2 just because the CDS3 is better. So finally back to the CDX/XPS, more brittle, slightly digital (in comparison), but also more dynamic! (well maybe) the more upfront presentation certainly gives this impression initially.

So what to do?

Well I've ordered the XPS2, I know I like this and it offers a worthwhile improvement without drastically affecting the sound balance. For the CDS3, well that will have to wait a while (there's an 6-8 week waiting list anyway). I may request a home trail towards the end of the summer when the XPS2 has settled in.
Posted on: 14 June 2003 by Chris Bell
Greeny,

Have you considered a used 52 for your system? Considering how much vinyl you listen to, a 52 would offer a big improvment.

Chris Bel
Posted on: 14 June 2003 by greeny
Chris.

A used 52 is a definate possibility in the near future, but I now listen to CD more than LP. I still have way more LP's than CD's, but I was becoming a bit disillusioned with variable pressing quality and limited availability of LP's, that along with the often good offers on CD has meant I have probably bought 10:1 CD:LP in the past 2 - 3 years.
Posted on: 14 June 2003 by Bob Edwards
Greeny--

I think you're on the right track. I recently acquired a 52 to replace a 72, and the 52 shows how my LP12 totally outclasses my CDX/XPS. I am now on the lookout for a CDS2 head unit to try and close the gap. Based on that, I'd suggest you go for a CDS2 or 3.

Best,

Bob
Posted on: 15 June 2003 by NB
Greeny,

The CDS3 and CDX players are certainly different but is it better?

How do you define better?

The CDS3 is certainly more detailed, smoother and has a wider sound image.

For me the CDS3 was far better than the CDX and in time I think the CDS3 will go down as an all time classic. Many think it has taken CD reproduction to another level, me included.

But is it better? well thats up to your own music tastes, everyone is different. I am sure some people will prefer the CDX's presentation, others will prefer the CDS3's.

Just make sure you do plenty of listening and make your own mind up.

Regards


NB
Posted on: 18 June 2003 by greeny
Bearing in mind the imminent arrival of the XPS2 (see initial post), I have sold my XPS. So now have a bare CDX for cd replay. WOW what a difference. Having grown accustomed to the CDX/XPS the CDX just sounds flat by comparison.

I think i'll be digging the vinyl out for the next week or so.
Posted on: 19 June 2003 by greeny
Stuart
yeh, I've seen your previous posts, and I'm glad you are getting on well with the CDS3.

Obviously cost does come into it. For me to go XPS -> XPS2 is approx £1000. To go CDX -> CDS2 is a further £3500. I need to be really convinced to spend that much, (especially with the DVD-A, SACD spectre on the horizon) obviously I could also go 82 ->52 (secondhand) for £1000 (ish).

The problem is I was blinded by the different presentation to appreciate the real important musical changes.
OK so the CDS3 is smoother, but many CD players are.

I need to spend longer with this CD player, ideally in my home system over a couple of days to truely evaluate its performance.
Posted on: 19 June 2003 by effinity
Hi Greeny,

Money does'nt seem to be a HUGE issue for you but for VFM and SUS (sonic ultra satisfaction) why not get the best of both worlds and go for CDS2 and 52?(approx 4.5 or less if u shop around, move your cdx/82 on, net outlay down to 2 to 2.5 now?) All your basic ingredients are there - SC and an XPS2 for gawds sake! wot u waiting for, u have heavenly music within yer grasp! CDS3 can wait till you've outgrown 52/sc/cds2/xps2 - my guess is that would be a hell of a long time.

hope i've not missed the point!

Steve
Posted on: 19 June 2003 by greeny
Steve.

This is also something I am considering.

I could probably get 52 and CDS11 secondhand for less (allowing for moving on the 82 and CDX) than a new CDS3. Of course it's difficult to evaluate which would give me the best improvement, I might be able to borrow a CDS3, but would not be able to compare CDS3/82 with CDS2/52. So which is better?
Posted on: 19 June 2003 by effinity
aha! well sorry Greeny, i've not heard cds3 with 82 but I do know that even a 52/PS is bliss with a CDS2 with the 52 making up for much of the total superiority over 82/SC. So on that basis 52/SC/CDS2/XPS2 is going to take some beating within the Naim context. I don't think you can isolate the CDS3 on a source first basis here, you either drive yourself potty setting up the comparison dems or you follow your heart and discover the feminine side of yourself like we all have to at some point! You might enjoy it Wink

Steve
Posted on: 20 June 2003 by NB
Quote:-


I might be able to borrow a CDS3, but would not be able to compare CDS3/82 with CDS2/52. So which is better?
______________________________________________________________


Logic says that the CDS3/82 will be better but its one you are going to have to try for yourself.

The CDS3 is a wonderful machine that offers true insight to the music. If funds can strech to one you will be rewarded with many years of musical enjoyment.


Regards


NB