2 x NAP500DR service+upgrade...

apparently my amps are back. could have reported this in DB's thread -- but i didn't want to hijack it.

this was a much faster turnaround than i expected. amps collected 22nd Sept --- back 7th October!!

in my younger days -- i would have driven to the dealer to collect and install -- (its c. 2hr drive) - such would have been my impatience.

but i would like my dealer to help with sorting out my 3 Fraim racks -- so they might as well bring the stuff and then we can install together when the Fraims are done.

This is all booked for next Friday. Looking fwd.

enjoy...

ken

Enjoy/ken

Original Post
Darke Bear posted:

Get them to begin running them in for you!  You may as well get a week of burn-in done for you.

Have fun!

DB.

good idea DB!  but honestly, i am not really that bothered about run/burn-in; it will happen when it will happen...

in any case, i want to be first to open the new box  strange isn't it?

enjoy...

ken

 

Good idea waiting for the dealer, I nearly gave myself a hernia getting the 500 head unit onto the bottom Fraim shelf without dismantling the stack. We were due at a party that evening so I only had a hour, I thought I had a good plan. The glass bearing the temporary 250 lifted slightly at the back and slid out to rest on some books worked a treat. Remove 250 and replace with 500 no problem but sliding the glass back leaning round the left side with rather limited space I nearly got it above the rear ball when something went in my chest and the rear ball shot out as the glass landed  on the edge of it. Fortunately whatever it was trying to break through the muscle wall went back in again and after a short rest I got the ball back in place and the glass on top of it.

The intention is to rebuild the racks in a month or so when I can get my wife out of the way for long enough.

I notice one of the burndies now rests on the floor where it used to hang clear (I sent the cables off with the amp) so a reorder of the brawn stack might be a good idea.

... and the result?

frightening!!

Hopefully the sound and not the bill, Ken?

Nice to see Andy doing his thing.

If you think it sounds good now ...............

Enjoy the ride. DB, I, and others will have prepared you for a few bumps in the road, but generally; it sounds like you're hearing the transformative DR upgrade effect right off the bat.

John.

 

 

 

 

 

J.N. posted:

... and the result?

frightening!!

Hopefully the sound and not the bill, Ken?

Nice to see Andy doing his thing.

If you think it sounds good now ...............

Enjoy the ride. DB, I, and others will have prepared you for a few bumps in the road, but generally; it sounds like you're hearing the transformative DR upgrade effect right off the bat.

John. 

it was refreshing watching Andy at work. His experience shines through and he is very modest about it all!

My Fraims were in desperate  need of a reset!

Andy also re-torqued my SL2 bolts for me and checked that the speaker floor spikes were tight.

All this is adding up to a very promising start SQ-wise but i am looking fwd to more as the amps settle.

enjoy

ken

You know my story Ken - painful bumps indeed, but now I am one very happy customer. I think you get more 'warts and all' pain in Active systems, but after a few weeks it is a delightful revelation and a far superior amp to the old NAP500. It fleshes-out voices and instruments and conveys low-bass rhythms and acoustic information far better.

DB.

good to hear you are over all your run-in blues DB -- meaning that there is a lot i can look fwd to. i had an initial long session after installation yesterday just to gauge initial impressions. given what we know about bedding-in process, i will not have a serious listening session for a week or so -- then after that we'll see..

enjoy...

ken

Driven Active from new the set of DR 500 were hooligans with the music, then sulked a bit, then were into an good-bad- better-worse.... then after a few weeks cleared and just settled into delicate firm mastery of the musical performance. I only point it out as it helped me in run-in when others told me they take a little while. Running passive it does not appear that you get the extremes as much, but Active does take a little while - but you may be luckier than me. By end of November you should be very pleased and probably well before then.

DB.

its now over 1 week ago since the DR upgraded 500s were installed. its early days yet for them to fully blossom but i though i would give a brief report on how its all evolving..

Initially straight after installation -- there was an obvious increase in detail -- lots of it -- but the presentation was quite "edgy" -- as if the musicians were not relaxed enough. Then mid last week -- the sound took on what i would describe as "thin and reedy". This week, the "reedy" bit is more or less gone -- the "edginess" is still there but much reduced. But the "thinness" is still very evident --  meaning that i am not getting the full tonality of instruments.  however, the cohesiveness is much improved now from day 1 -- when he extra detail seemed a bit 'scattered'.

My best attempt at describing what's happening -- hope it communicates something. Interesting run-in ride for me anyhow.

Lets see how this all develops during the next few weeks... 

enjoy...

ken

ken c posted:

its now over 1 week ago since the DR upgraded 500s were installed. its early days yet for them to fully blossom but i though i would give a brief report on how its all evolving..

Initially straight after installation -- there was an obvious increase in detail -- lots of it -- but the presentation was quite "edgy" -- as if the musicians were not relaxed enough. Then mid last week -- the sound took on what i would describe as "thin and reedy". This week, the "reedy" bit is more or less gone -- the "edginess" is still there but much reduced. But the "thinness" is still very evident --  meaning that i am not getting the full tonality of instruments.  however, the cohesiveness is much improved now from day 1 -- when he extra detail seemed a bit 'scattered'.

My best attempt at describing what's happening -- hope it communicates something. Interesting run-in ride for me anyhow.

Lets see how this all develops during the next few weeks... 

enjoy...

ken

So basically you have a group of thin, unrelaxed musicians then? 

Hi Ken,

Some of us hear run-in and some don't - hang-in there as it does get a lot better after a few weeks. It took mine about 4 weeks to lose the annoying run-in stuff and have all the sumptuous new capabilities and some, like me, find it hard until it gets farther along to describe it all as immediately glowing-good!

Fortunately it is not my first experience with NAP500 run-in and it was nothing outside of what happened before - a rough-ride until it all settled-down and I never would have dreamed of returning to my old NAP300 set I used before. Now I would not return to the non-DR NAP500 and it is still improving.

From week 4 or 5 until week 12 I thought I was essentially 'there' and had a fairly stable performance that was excellent and much better than before, so I was happy. However a few days ago it began to sound weird and was 'frighteningly clear' but with a rather 'etched' emphasis in the high-frequencies. Not unpleasant to listen to, but not right either - I considered re-booting the system, as that can clear things like this, but the effect reminded me of the SL Cable run-in sound and after another day the 'etched' effect cleared and I now have an amazing open sound-space at both high and low frequency ends - it just opened-out even more.

I'm still getting used to the new presentation - it reminds me of what happened to the SL Pre after about 9 months but here with the DR 500 the same happened on week 12-13.

You know what you hear Ken - and I'm interested to hear if you think things are a lot better by week 3-4. Then there is more to arrive later!

DB.

The DR 500 does present a more contiguous whole of a presentation with fewer 'fuzzy gaps' so 'organic', meaning 'one entity' to me is a reasonable descriptor.

The run-in depends on personal hearing past-experience, some hear things that other just don't and we all get a different experience. But this runs-up against the view that 'we all are the same' and the only answer from those of that view is either at best silence, or sometimes sarcasm and insulting those not the same. This is the world of forums unfortunately.

DB.

Darke Bear posted:

 

You know what you hear Ken - and I'm interested to hear if you think things are a lot better by week 3-4. Then there is more to arrive later!

DB.

thanks Gary -- its all mellowing very nicely -- and subtle changes are getting more or more evident - so i dont know whether i will notice any 'step change' at some point, especially as i am listening to the system most of the time. But mirroring your experience, i look forward to how it all develops over the next 4 weeks, 12 weeks? my patience will be truly tested...

enjoy

ken

It sounds like the newly fettled beasts are settling down Ken. I just checked my diary and was astonished to discover that I've had my DR'500 for eight months. Ergo - it sounds 'normal'.

Casting my mind back, I do recall a 'less is more' thing happening, or a sense of the electronics getting out of the way of the music. So yes; as Gary says - a more organic and natural sound in simple terms.

I reckon the DR'd amp took the best part of six months to achieve its full potential, so enjoy the ride. The big unpleasant bumps in the road passed in the first few weeks for me, but of course two amps in an active rig will inevitably open the window wider.

John.

J.N. posted:

It sounds like the newly fettled beasts are settling down Ken. I just checked my diary and was astonished to discover that I've had my DR'500 for eight months. Ergo - it sounds 'normal'.

Casting my mind back, I do recall a 'less is more' thing happening, or a sense of the electronics getting out of the way of the music. So yes; as Gary says - a more organic and natural sound in simple terms.

I reckon the DR'd amp took the best part of six months to achieve its full potential, so enjoy the ride. The big unpleasant bumps in the road passed in the first few weeks for me, but of course two amps in an active rig will inevitably open the window wider.

John.

yes, i believe they are John -- at least to the extent that i can sense some subtle but significant changes since installation. ordinarily, the fact that its definitely not 100% would have me constantly inspecting the cables to make sure they are all free and not touching -- you know the usual neurosis. but this time around, other than pulling the Geddon power lead away from the SL 552/NDS IC (which Andy in fact suggested just as a precaution), i haven't needed to make any after installation adjustments. This is good as it means that any positive changes i pick up over time must then be due to run-in mostly.

8 months!!! Lucky you John.. "time flies when you are having fun".

i know the road ahead for me will likely be a bit bumpy -- but "been there, done that"... Lets see how the amps recover from the extensive surgery...

enjoy

ken

J.N. posted:

"thanks Gary -- its all mellowing very nicely"

That made me chuckle Ken - thinking that's what we need - a tone control setting marked 'Mellow', which I have on my 1950 model Pye table wireless.

John.

Wow! perhaps that's what we need John --  

enjoy

ken

well, its week 2 today! there have been some noticeable changes -- but we are not 'there' yet.

The "thinness/reedyness" is more or less gone -- or at least i am not as aware of it as i was last week.

The sound is still somewhat edgy -- especially higher frequencies.

but there is some very positive development -- in terms of tonality. Its now a lot fuller. I am now picking up the wooden resonance from e.g. a piano and its an extremely "real" experience -- enhancing "presence", "involvement" and "emotional content".

the extra clarity that i picked up straight from cold is still very evident -- but now is very apparent in the context of "real" instrument tonality.

Hopefully the "edginess" will continue to decay -- but i would not be surprised if there was another surprise(!) at week 3.

enjoy...

ken

ken c posted:

well, its week 2 today! there have been some noticeable changes -- but we are not 'there' yet.

The "thinness/reedyness" is more or less gone -- or at least i am not as aware of it as i was last week.

The sound is still somewhat edgy -- especially higher frequencies.

but there is some very positive development -- in terms of tonality. Its now a lot fuller. I am now picking up the wooden resonance from e.g. a piano and its an extremely "real" experience -- enhancing "presence", "involvement" and "emotional content".

the extra clarity that i picked up straight from cold is still very evident -- but now is very apparent in the context of "real" instrument tonality.

Hopefully the "edginess" will continue to decay -- but i would not be surprised if there was another surprise(!) at week 3.

enjoy...

ken

After all the discussion on another thread of how difficult it is to describe aural experiences, I think you have done a fine job.

Glad to hear the DR'd 500s are settling in and reading others' experiences of this wonderful mod, you have much more to come.

One more week and all will be a lot better Ken.

One can't necessarily extrapolate any general rules of run-in progression from one system to another, but what you describe is similar to my run-in with Active systems exposing all.

There are episodes of an unfolding 'edge' associated with another lower-level of fine detail emerging - then it properly emerges and the edge disappears and becomes fuller and 'nicer'.

This proceeds every several days and gradually works down to lower and lower levels of detail - each appears with an edge at first and then the edge goes.

The first few days and weeks it is at a high level and more unpleasant, then over the weeks it becomes lower and lower down to the quieter details and less annoying while the edge is present - then it is run-in.

This is how I hear it with DR and SL cables.

My DR 500 is still improving and sounding rather nicely smooth and richer-textured.

DB.

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Ian Stafford
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