Advice on best way to retrofit wired Ethernet.

Huge posted:

 In my opinion the best approach to home networking is KISS -

Thats what I say to my clients - KIS(S) also applies when you are trying to troubleshoot and correctly diagnose an issue. The frustration caused through the unnecessary complexity and time wasting  troubleshooting with non intelligent / silent devices is infuriating to the point of sometimes being futile on larger SME/home setups.

I use the example of you wouldn't  build a drain without an inspection cover - unless you wanted to dig up the whole drain if there was issue. But clearly a hose going from a washing machine to a drain is simple enough and can be replaced if visibly damaged. i.e. the case for Managed/Smart or Unmanaged/Silent switches

Its a fallacy to think good practice and status visibility equals complexity - its not - its precisely the opposite for the majority of home infrastructure applications. However it does tend to cost a little more up front.

S

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:
Huge posted:

 In my opinion the best approach to home networking is KISS -

Thats what I say to my clients - KIS(S) also applies when you are trying to troubleshoot and correctly diagnose an issue. The frustration caused through the unnecessary complexity and time wasting  troubleshooting with non intelligent / silent devices is infuriating to the point of sometimes being futile on larger SME/home setups.

I use the example of you wouldn't  build a drain without an inspection cover - unless you wanted to dig up the whole drain if there was issue. But clearly a hose going from a washing machine to a drain is simple enough and can be replaced if visibly damaged. i.e. the case for Managed/Smart or Unmanaged/Silent switches

Its a fallacy to think good practice and status visibility equals complexity - its not - its precisely the opposite for the majority of home infrastructure applications. However it does tend to cost a little more up front.

S

Simon, the software I'm working on would cost only 25% of it's price when KISS would be applied. In my experience, before KISS there is another important thing. Getting coherent requirements. If customers want too much (audio / software / cars / whatever), it is more likely to end up in an unnecessary complicated solution.

Absolutely - requirements first - and then design a solution around best practice for those requirements - unless there is clear reason not to. And of course a solution needs to allow you to repair it should the unexpected happen or you need to accept the possibility  of ripping out and starting again - and this includes cabling and fibres.

Curious about your software.. software can only really collate the status from the devices in terms of physical diagnostics - and many of the cheaper SmartSwitches don't use SNMP which otherwise would help software such as SolarWinds etc

S

intothevoid posted:

Can't really add any more to what's already been said. It's all good advice.

I cabled my house throughout, running at least a double outlet to every room, and sometimes a pair of doubles to allow for room rearrangement. In reality lots of the wires go unused, but better safe than sorry.

Bring it all back to a central point so it's easy to manage, and can help with isolating noise.

This is what I ended up with:

Very happy with D-Link, TP-Link and QNAP components, all faultless.

Good luck!

 

 

Mine is a somewhat simpler system, occupying less space, though of course possibly having less connected (typ 10-15 devices):

8 way unmanaged gigabyte switch sitting next to Fritzbox wireless router/VDSL modem (which has 4 ethernet ports), together with a small NAS (ZYxel NSA325) on a little high shelf on the landing, with mains outlets alongside and phone line routed there. From there 8 Cat 6 cables run to various rooms through eaves space and unshared wall conduit. Further unmanaged gigabyte switches are then used locally where more than one thing is to be connected. (Two 8-way, one 4-way, and another 4-way that is part of an additional wireless access point making use of a redundant Linksys ADSL wireless router/modem.) This keeps flexibility without running multiple cables to every room, other than the lounge that has two outlets in different places because of its size. The switches are all cheap unmanaged ones, all very compact.

Works perfectly, never any issues, other than ensuring no IP address clashes whan adding anything new. Used by two people seemingly constantly for either online gaming or video streaming, plus various other uses. When I played my music from a NAS I sited it in the music room connected to the same switch as the then ND5XS, and nothing else on that switch, and never any glitches. (I no longer need to play music across the network as it is all in the Mac Mini that doubles as renderer). Lack of problems includes video streaming from the NAS to the lounge via three switches and about 25m of cable. The house phone is VOIP also connected to one of the network outlets.

in general with domestic networks I agree with Huge's KISS recommendation, which is what I believe mine is.

Thanks for all the advice, I'm trying to assimilate it and hope I'm getting the gist of things.

what I've taken from the posts above is

  • 2 sockets per room (at least)
  • terminate with patch panel  (have labelling or mapping)
  • Use trunking to futureproof
  • Cat 6
  • Basic managed switch
  • Carefully consider location of switch

 

So just to check I'm understanding is this correctly labelled?

 

 

I don't understand what you mean here Simon

  and when wiring lay at least 2x Cat 5e or Cat 6 cable to where you anticipate switches. That way you can manage resilience or bonding like Ether channel for increased capacity

 Also what is the best type of socket to have in the individual rooms?

 

 

Thanks

 

SJB

Hi, I think your summary is pretty much spot on... The reference I made was referring to some locations using a hub and spoke with switches, so use a central switch and have a remote switch where there is a higher density of ports with devices taking to each other such as in an office/study. If you do this use may ideally anticipate using at least two cables to connect from the centralised switch to the edge switch. Depending on equipment used you can in build in resilience (two parallel cables using Spanning Tree ) or you can bond the cables/channels   together to give a higher capacity link... By using at least two cables you have options... and of course by using trunking it makes it easier to change as well... and you may start by simply using a single cable.

This is what I do... I have all my streaming audio and video equipment off its own switch, connected to a centralised switch. I find it's easier to manage and reduces the tendency of  'looms' of Ethernet cables starting to appear which I had severeal years ago when I had only one central switch. I use Cisco 2960 devices.. You can pick them up quite cheaply for quality managed devices on eBay.

 

Richard has kindly re-opened this thread for me as we're getting close to what  Sir Alex once called  "squeaky bum" time in the renovation process so I have a few clarifications and further questions.

  1. Ideally should all the CAT 6 cable be shielded?
  2. Should it be CAT6 or CAT6a?
  3. What would be the best way to include a run of  fibre connection to the main hi-fi rig?

 

Thanks,

John.

 

.sjb

Bart posted:

Rather than 3 or 4 cables to each room, necessitating a huge switch with lines that may well never be used, why not plan on a small unmanaged switch in any room where multiple devices MAY be installed.

because that doesnt help when the singular cable to that room breaks. you dont have a backup

and small unmanaged switches are fine until you move around and they get confused. they wont support spanning tree, for starters. Going round power cycling every one of these damn things to flush out their cache can be a huge pain

Sloop John B posted:

Richard has kindly re-opened this thread for me as we're getting close to what  Sir Alex once called  "squeaky bum" time in the renovation process so I have a few clarifications and further questions.

  1. Ideally should all the CAT 6 cable be shielded?
  2. Should it be CAT6 or CAT6a?
  3. What would be the best way to include a run of  fibre connection to the main hi-fi rig?

 

Thanks,

John.

 

.sjb

1) no, and Cat5e is also totally adequate

2) as above, but if you prefer the idea of using non Cat5e then regular Cat 6 is fine and will be easier to work with than Cat 6a

3) currently Naim don't use fibre SFPs so there is no advantage of using fibre to the Hi-Fi rig, as you will need to use fibre/twisted pair converter which are often of questionable quality in my opinion as many are aimed at the consumer market. If you wish to use fibre between switches and or routers you will almost certainly need to use SFP compatible devices which rules out most consumer grade stuff.

As said above try to give yourself the option of running multiple Ethernet runs to each room, this allows use of Etherchannel and potentially Spanning Tree Protocol which can give a degree of fault tolerance and improved performance for the future.

I also highly recommend in the listening room(s) to install in the open walls what we call 'rockwall' here in the Sates - soundproofing insulation material. Makes for a nice dead sounding room and helps noise bleed to other rooms. And don't forget to put it in the ceilings esp. 

jon honeyball posted:
Bart posted:

Rather than 3 or 4 cables to each room, necessitating a huge switch with lines that may well never be used, why not plan on a small unmanaged switch in any room where multiple devices MAY be installed.

because that doesnt help when the singular cable to that room breaks. you dont have a backup

and small unmanaged switches are fine until you move around and they get confused. they wont support spanning tree, for starters. Going round power cycling every one of these damn things to flush out their cache can be a huge pain

If I had 149 nas's storing an exa byte of data in my home, I might also be concerned.

With 2 Naim players, a nas, and a backup nas, why do I need a backup cable in my walls and why do I need "spanning tree."

 

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