Amazon Echo

Beachcomber posted:

Interesting variation tonight - the NDX suddenly stopped playing and said that it was restoring history.  What's going on?

"Restoring history" is what you usually get if you have been listening to FM say and go back to upnp. It only takes a few seconds and puts the unit back in the folder structure where it was when you left off.

The question is, why does it think you left off...?

best

David

Beachcomber posted:

Interesting variation tonight - the NDX suddenly stopped playing and said that it was restoring history.  What's going on?

If history is being restored, does that mean the Brexit vote hasn't happened yet and Britain won't be leaving the EU?

Or does it mean Britain hasn't joined the EU yet? 

It looks like an interesting product but unless it can integrate with my hifi and to etc etc I'm not sure how I would use it.  Be interesting to see who develops their software to allow it to integrate, I'd love Audirvana to link to it even if it is just for fun

After thinking i couldn't see the point of one of these.... i'm starting to come round to the idea that this could be really useful. We already have a Harmony Hub and a Sonos system which the Echo looks like it will easily interface to without much messing about.

Looking at the two options, I take it the Dot is virtually the same as the full size device but minus the more capable internal speakers - for voice control functionality it performs the same ?

James

I bought a Dot out of curiosity, but so far all I can find it to do is turn the Hue lights on and off, and tell me what the weather's doing. The voice control is a bit variable - it struggles to understand SWMBO's Glaswegian accent. But then, so do I...

It is very easy to use and the speech recognition is much better than Apple. So far, it is good for voice controlled radio playing, controlling our Nest thermostats and as a Bluetooth player for the iPhones. I'd really like it to be usable as a UPNP player as well. It will get better as more apps are developed.

There is absolutely some conflict between the Amazon Echo and the NDX. I have 3 Echo Dots, and if any of them are plugged in the NDX frequently seems to "reboot." It will stop playing, clear the song queue, and show "Input Initialising." This is true regardless of the source it is playing - whether UPNP, Spotify, or even USB. Use of the NDX as a DAC through the digital inputs is unaffected, though.

I solved this by putting the NDX on its own subnet so that it cannot talk or hear the Amazon Echos. This is rather technical though and may be beyond most users. I hope Naim fixes this issue - it seems like there is some broadcast message the Echo is using (perhaps for smart home discovery) that is causing part of the NDX to crash and reboot.

The problem you have is that you need the NDX to be able to talk to some wi-fi devices, like your iOS & Android devices, but not others, like the Echo. Therefore, you can put the NDX on a separate subnet from the wi-fi devices, but you need to configure the router to allow some communications through between the subnets and not others. It seems that allowing TCP and blocking UDP between the subnets is sufficient isolation to prevent the Echo from crashing the NDX.

It might also be possible to achieve this by separating the Echo from everything else by giving it its own wi-fi subnet on a separate wi-fi SSID. However you'll still need a router to allow the Echo to talk to the Internet but not the NDX - this is a bit more straightforwards to set up than allowing TCP and blocking UDP though.

Hello all, 

I am also having problems. Interestingly it only started after a dot was added. I have now done a full reboot of every part of the network and things seem more stable. The issue I had affected NDS and Unitiqute but not Muso. UPNP stream would continually fail and lose play queue. I was on the verge of getting another router before I saw this stream! 

David

 

 

 

I haven't done any real debugging, but I will speculate that the Echo's attempts to search for smart home devices is somehow triggering a bug in the NDX firmware that is causing it to reset. The way that both the NDX and the Echo discover other devices on the network (like UPNP servers for the NDX, or a smart thermostat for the Echo) is that they periodically send messages to every device on the network. Devices that understand the message should reply. It's possible the NDX is understanding part of the Echo's discovery messages but crashes while processing it.

As I say i do have home automation and Echo - and you have to tell Echo to search for automation- its doesn't do it all the time - and I have no issue at all -  I do however have a beta version of the NDX firmware.

UPnP uses multicast discovery - i.e. the enquirer sends a discovery packet  to 239.255.255.2520 and all devices belonging to that multicast group - or on simple networks that is translated to a broadcast packet - will respond. As far as I am aware home automation doesn't use this - but might use another multicast group - I'll look around

 

Update, OK Philips Hue does use UPnP discovery - and so yes it appears Echo will be sending a packet out to 239.255.255.252 to discover Hue amongst other systems - which means the NDX will also see this - but should discard it - but it looks like on your firmware version it isn't but crashing.... one for Naim... and perhaps a prompt to release beta firmware?

There is but it is marginal in my experience. Most home networks have limited broadcast traffic, and its broadcast traffic by definition that has to be processed, if only to be inspected,  by every host on the subnet such as the streamer. Of course lower down you have a fairly constant stream of ARP requests handled ny the Network interface card.. the traffic and load here is proportional to the number of hosts on your network. Again for home networks this is probably benign.

Now one area that would be more relevant here is if you were using large scale multicast for streaming media... such as video or audio... here things could start to matter. The multicast discovery load for UPnP is trivial and therefore the multicast address can be converted to a broadcast address by little cheap switches like consumer Netgears with no real impact.

However if multicast video is taking place, then managing the group of hosts for a particular multicast address becomes essential if not to load the hosts such as the streamer with irrelevant data. Here using switches that understand IGMP snooping would become key so the multicast group traffic can be correctly directed and doesn't bombard the poor streamer.

I guess most don't use multicast video (IPTV) at this time, or if they do their ISP router and its switchports handles the IGMP snooping.

Simon

I see Echo / Voice commands as an adjunct to using a remote or an app. Especially useful when starting play when say walking into a room.  We have become totally used to Echo controlling our lights and I'll eventually have her controlling the TV/SKY part of the system.  Music control would be a very convenient addition and perhaps would encourage my wife to play more music. 

David Hendon posted:

It can unexpectedly get you dolls houses and cookies delivered too, apparently! The funny bit though is that, according to the press today, the TV report of the dolls house incident triggered a lot more Echos to do exactly the same thing!

best

David

I heard this on the radio last night too and thought it most amusing...

This made me chuckle too... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfCfTYZJWtI

With regards to this latest issue here (thanks to JT for emailing us to make us aware of it) a number of us here are also using Echo and Echo Dot and haven't seen the issue so it's a new one on us but it has been logged and we have contacted JT back to progress it. It could be something as simple as was happening with Netflix a while ago when they were incorrectly broadcasting a global reset command from their portable device app and eventually modified their app so that it behaved but if we can get some info on it then we can look into it.

Phil

jtwang posted:

...the NDX frequently seems to "reboot." It will stop playing, clear the song queue, and show "Input Initialising." This is true regardless of the source it is playing - whether UPNP, Spotify, or even USB. Use of the NDX as a DAC through the digital inputs is unaffected, though.

I have exactly the same problem with my SU. It does it sometimes like that when a song is playing or can drop off the network when not being used and can only be roused by the remote control. Fortunately, it only happens every week or so. It started happening over the last few months and may well have coincided with the installation of the Amazon Echo.

Interesting - I should have checked this before, but apparently it is version 1.8 (does that make sense???) according to the Naim app on my android - build version 1128, streamer version 4.4.00, BSL version 2.3.0

 

I will try to update - though a little nervous because I had an NDX before which crashed and burned when I upgraded...

Cheers

Steve

Stevesky posted:

Hi Gents, 

For those of you who have problems, could you let me know the firmware version that your product is on, if connected wifi or wired and also what model of product it is.  

Many thanks

Steve

Group Software Director

Hi Steve,

I nearly missed your post, great you guys are on the case. Might be an idea to make this a "sticky" so others with this problem don't miss the oppotunity to report observations.

NDS

Firmware 4.4.00

Wired

Echo now disconnected until my Naim NDS has an update which means that it is not affected by Echo and both can cohabit.

All, 

So a solution here anyway, I moved all the Echo devices onto the guest network. While they are still able to find other home automation devices (Nest) on the main network, they do not interfere any longer with Naim. 

Along the way, I learned that it is not only Naim devices that have issues with Echo, so do many AirPlay enabled devices. 

David

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