And another Tellurium Q Black (2, this time around) thread

Soo... I have TQ Black 2 on home dem. 

My system is NacN 172XS, Nap 200, B&W pm1, Chord Shawline interconnect.

My previous speaker cable upgrade was DNM Reson to Naca5. The DNM was perfect for my previous system, but in the current one, the Naca5 is much better. Back then, I also had TQ Black on home dem along the Naca5, and although I liked some of what the TQ was doing, the Naca5 was the better match for me.

The TQ Black 2 I'm demoing only has a few hours on it, but imo it's much better than its previous incarnation. It has eliminated most of the harshness and sybilance I got from time to time with Naca5. It sounds so smooth, whilst being more open and detailed. Nice liquidy sound, and better texture across the band. I have a couple of questions, if anyone is using this:

1. Does it's length matter? (Soundwise, of course). I have a 2.5 meter pair ATM. My Naca5 is 3.5m, but just because I got a good deal on it, and my dealer recommended bigger length.

2. I still feel like the "attack" is not as good/strong/immediate as on the Naca5. Does it get better with burn-in? Or is this it's normal state and a consequence of it's smoothness? I'm talking mainly about the bass, the mid-range and highs are fantastic.

Thank you

Original Post

Just one comment: 'attack and presence' of the bass is actually found in two places: around 1500 Hz (attack) and between 3500 - 4500 Hz (presence).
What one perceives as a tightness, speed and attack are down to how the harmonics are controlled and accentuated. Of course fundtamentals must be there in the first place

Otherwise - I'm curious about your experience with TQ Black 2. When I was experimenting with different spekaer cables I must have tried most of the then-current TQ range. Ended up using Naim's own 

Thanks for the input, Adam. I think I recall, from my older TQ Black (1) topic that you're one of the few nutters that opted for Naca5 over the TQ

Small update: Jesus! I just listened to the "Wicked" soundtrack, and the scale and naturalness of timbres is amazing with the Black 2. Not going to swap the Naca5 back in quite yet, but it seems a bit crude in comparison. Also listened to some Genesis (lamb), porcupine tree, steven Wilson, joe cocker, snarky puppy, Esperanza Spalding, pink Floyd, echolyn and opeth. All instruments are more nuanced, strings sound better, guitars sound like wood resonating, and the skins of the drums sound so different and lifelike. Still miss some of the Naca5 punch and boogie. But the Black 2 is much, buch better than the mark 1, which had a one-notey bass, and made everything sound so separated.

P.s.: still no-one with input on the TQ Black 2?

I used TQ Black (MK1) for a while, but not with anything Naim in the system and liked it a lot.  When I switched to TQ Ultra Black it was like having a system upgrade, the UB is exceptionally good and definitely worth a try especially if you can get hold of some used as the new price is just crazy

As some might know I now have an XS2 in the system and used the UB as usual which performed very well, however I just received some NACA5 and tried that out with the XS2 and to be honest I am loving it.  I will give it some time before deciding but I have a sneaky suspicion that the NACA5 might stay and I will sell the UB, which to be honest I never thought I would.  The NACA5 does seem to have a certain 'synergy' with the XS2 and the rest of the sytem

I don't know if that helps at all, probably not  

I received my TQ Black 2 a seven days ago and was immediately disappointed so I’m hoping things may improve over time but given the cable was conditioned for a couple of days prior to shipping I have my doubts.

This was to replace a bi-wire Chord Rumour 4 of which only 1 set of plugs were used on the speaker end after moving to PMCs.

My immediate and on-going perception is that a disconnect between low and mid frequencies exist - its as if there is a gap. Everything sounds unmusical. I never really understood the PRAT thing people on the forum mention from time to time until it vanished.

Hoping to do a bit of an A/B comparison over the weekend just to make sure Im not imagining it but I had such an immediate reaction on installing it after expecting the same as a minimum or better… we’ll see.

@Nina I know what you mean, Naca5 has great synergy with Naim, almost as if they're made by the same company congrats about the XS2, btw, hope you're enjoying it

@James G that was my experience with the first black. Now - not so much, but yes, still has to match the prat the Naca5 brings. Actually my dealer preferred Rumour 2 on the Unitiqute 2 (I did as well), but on every other Naim he recommended Naca5. I had to use DNM with my previous speakers to tame the bass, but now that's not the case, quite the opposite.

Thing is I like the TQ b2 more with jazzy/orchestral stuff, but with rock and prog, so far, even though some stuff is better (like instrument texture, air and smoothness), still missing a bit of the propulsive force the Naca5 brings (or shows) in my system. Actually, I think even the DNM was better in that department.

HI Rainsoothe and all,

Here's my personal 4-months long experience with the TQ Black II - having replaced my NAC A5. We all know that A5 is all about cohesion, boogie and synergy in a Naim-based system. I changed due to a house move in the space of 15 months - my NACA5 had to be threaded through a ridiculously narrow conduit - so the second time around I simply decided try something new, more supple and thinner, obviously not without the influence of this forum. I also beleive that experimenting with the various elements of our systems is part and parcel of undertaking.

So, initially i was hugely disappointed with the TQ Black II (10m pair) having formed very high expectations. The very first impressions of TQ B II had been as follows: a very holographic cable if this makes sense, particularly with vocals and mostly with well-recorded complex rock/metal and other genres including some pop for good measure. The Biggest problem arose (for me and in my system) with the very, very harsh top end - so bad that I was ready to ship the cable back had it not been for the sheer complexity of exercise with customs and shipping - probably similar to James G's feedback above in some way.

However, having persevered past the 2nd month though, the cables gradually began to transform - gone was the brittle treble, mids and low base tones were extremely well controlled. My description of the sound now with the TQ B II well run-in,  is of something very 3D, sound-stage seems both deeper and wider but... this might as well be an illusion since our perceptions get accustomed to changes gradually over time. Whatever the explanation, the entire tonal spectrum hangs together really well for me, and most of all - instruments and vocals are ever so clearly outlined and separated and "tight". 

A disclaimer follows: I am yet to make a comparison with my NAC A5 - having been just too busy to get around doing this - but hopefully a double-blind test will soon take place.

Now, going back to Chris Cornell's Songbook live at Queen Elizabeth Theater - sublime, even late at night at fairly low volume)). Also can assure you that Porcupine Tree, Perfect Circle and heavy rock/metal also play extremely well through these wires; Earlier today Gojira's Explosia  and Mouth of Kala sounded with amazing clarity and slam. I can say that I am fully content with what I am hearing through the Blacks II.

Regarding the length, I would stretch to 3.5 and over if it were me - just for piece of mind, and future resale value.

Cheers, Vik

 

 

 

Hi, and thank you. Yes, I totally agree on the "holographic" bit, I wanted to mention that as well, but it slipped my mind. Hoping to get a bit of the improvement that you got in the prat area during my home dem. I will report if there is any, and also what happens when I put the Naca5 back in.

crackie posted:

TQ take an age to burn in. My Ultra Black speaker cable finally "clicked in place " in between the 300-400 hour mark (seriously, they were still great up to that mark, but clicked up another gear around the 300h mark to now sound truly sublime). 

Thanks, crackie. I know it's a different cable, but was your initial experience similar to mine? Especially in the bass, I still want more weight and authority from mine. The rest is great imo, but will soon switch back to Naca5 to see if it's worth trading the Naca5 flow for the stuff that TQ does. Hoping to extend the demo, my system has been playing music ever since I got them, even though at night it was at 0 volume.

wenger2015 posted:
Mayor West posted:

I'd be interested to know how the TQ Black 2 compares to the current Ultrablacks if anyone has done the comparison?

From what I have been told, the black 2 are very similar now to the Ultra blacks.

Very interesting, Wenger. Thanks for that!

Rainsoothe,

Its hard to recall exact burn in details, but the bass did seem to dig a bit deeper/ more powerful towards the very end of the burn in process. It took all this burn in for the UB to pull ahead of the NACA5 in my room/system. 

Great cable the NACA5 is - especially for the money.

wenger2015 posted:

From what I have been told, the black 2 are very similar now to the Ultra blacks.

For my 3m run of Ultra Blacks the new price would be about £1,500 so if the new Black 2, at about £320 for the same length, is similar to the UB's that would be superb value for money

Thank you all. It seems to be getting better, going through a lot of music and it's just a delight to listen to. The Naca5 is just a bit muddier sometimes (when the bass line is soft) but on rhythmically complex stuff, like Porcupine Tree or Dream Theater, it still punches better and more tuneful. This is from memory, still gonna wait with swapping it back in.

Out of all the "official" reviews on the Black II they have on their website, the one from the Polish magazine is the closest (or the only one) that resembles my experience. The TQB II is very "analogue" sounding, and they say it's amazing for jazz / orchestral stuff, but some fans of electronic music and the likes might not like it (although I don't think it's bad with it). I don't think they kept it for a month or two before doing the review, but who knows?...

@ray sheldon the SN2 is very punchy in the bass imo, and that transmission line bass from the PMCs likewise, very tuneful, fast and strong, and they're also very open sounding - so I can imagine the TQ is a great match in your system, tying stuff together ever so nicely.

So yes, bass still seems a bit shut in ATM wity Black IIs.

Hi Rainsoothe,

I have TQ Black II running from SN2 to PMC GB1is (with CDX2 as source) and for my money it sounds better than NACA5 in this set up (NACA5 not as clear and transparent as TQ II in comparison).
I suspect if I was using different speakers I may prefer NACA5 though and agree its great cable (I have both).
From other comments I have read on here, PMC speakers appear to have excellent synergy with TQ cables in general.

I am hoping to move to PMC Twenty5.23s in the coming months and fully suspect that the TQ II will stay in the system.
(although I also intend to demo the new Spendor A4).

 

 

Not much to add except that I think it all depends. I previously used TQ Black with different speakers but after a speaker upgrade we subsequently auditioned half a dozen different speaker cables, including TQ Black Mk II and one that was much, much more expensive. Although TQ Black Mk II bought some different things to the party, different cables seems to trade one thing for another and on balance our joint preference was for NAC A5, so that's what we now have and very pleased with it we are too.

We did make our own DIN to XLR with Mogami cable for connecting the 272 to the 250 which we preferred to the standard Naim item.

YMMV of course! 

@NewNaim16 thanks for your input, that pretty much sums up my experience with the first TQB, which imo was all over the place. The new one does so much stuff right, but awesome Naim style slam still has to show itself, if it ever will. I will be switching back to Naca5 in a week, and report back on my findings and decision.

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

It is strange that when  discussing Chord speaker wires they seem to degrade the Naim sound, but the same is not true for Tellurium. Probably down to one or a few naim cable fundamentalists on the forum.

Claus

Well, TQ doesn't seem to generally ruin the Naim flow, which seems to be what some might have against Chord stuff. I run Chord Shawline interconnect, and it seems to fit in just fine, although I suspect it might be responsible for the occasional sybilance (or, more likely the 172)

Ok, update time. First of all, in the last day with the 2.5m lengths, I remembered I was using anticables speaker links on my BW. I switched to the original links and some stuff was better, other was worse. Now I spent 2 more weeks with a 3m pair + the TQ Black 2 links. 

Don't know if it's in my mind or real, but this seemed much better. Yesterday I separated the links (which I'm gonna keep) so I can plug the speaker cable diagonally in the binding posts, and it seemed better still. Again, I don't know if it's placebo or not.

So TQB 2 sounds way better in the mid-range and treble. It's more open but still together, very full and euphonic, cymbals and pianos have volume (as in liters, not decibels), strings are real and not metallic (like with the Naca5), the sybilance is gone, and organs and synths sound great, dynamic and are brought a little bit forward (in a good way). Melodies are really easy to follow (for example in the last part of "3 years older", where there's lots of stuff going on). Bass is also full and grand.

BUT: Naca5 is still faster and bolder, even if it's a bit hard and too tense at times. Bass guitars are more forward, which strengthens the rhythmic flow.

So 4 weeks later, I'm none the wiser. I will probably get the TQ B2, and some months later see if I can't stand it, or if the trade-offs are worth it.

@Vik71 did you get around to swapping the Naca5 back in?

Also, to the TQ b2 users, are base guitars still a bit restrained in some registers after longer use, or do they get their bite back after some time?

Rainsoothe,

Yes, I did change the the TQ B2 with my NACA5 and must, at this stage, fully agree with you. The A5 sounds stunning - it has everything in spades, and since you mentioned the base being more recessed with TQ B2 - I don't know if is the power of suggestion by I also seem to perceive tighter more rhythmic base with NACA5. Initially I kept switching back and forth b/n the two cables on the weekend and this got me nowhere. Now I have decided to leave the NACA5 in place for the entire week and keep listening to different genres - taking notes and the same will be repeated with TQ B2 next week. Now back to Metallica's Master of Puppets album - kept plying Orion a hundred times and with NACA5 it just seems so right...will see next week with TQ B2.  Regardless of what happens at the end - we have choices and this continues to be huge fun. Hope you arrive at the best conclusion as to which cable to keep soon.

Best, Vik

@Vik71 hi and thank you, greatly appreciated. I decided to keep the TQ Black 2 and sell it in a few months if I find it lacking. During my last switching around, the Naca5 (which I left playing for 3 days before) felt too crude tonally on some stuff, even though, as I said, rhythmically it was still so forward-momentum-ey. There is a certain richness about the TQB2 that's just as addictive. If this thread gets locked, maybe you could pm me with what you end up leaving in your system? Curiosity would kill me otherwise )

@Clownmaster thank you. That totally mirrors my experience with the mk1 Black, but the mk2 is a completely different cable imo.

Thanks, everyone, for your help.

Great to hear you have found a resolution with keeping the TQ B2,  Rainsoothe! I know it is a very good cable, I might just find out that upon careful comparison the Naca5 ends up working better in my system: it is undeniable that it gels well with Naim speakers - my case, which opens another can of worms as a par of Ovators has become available at a great price near me....Anyway, I will post an update on what cable I leave between my  SN2 and n-sats in the next couple of weeks either via this thread or pm.

Best,

Vik

@Rainsoothe, having just made the switch back to the TQ BII after 8 days of trusted naca5 sound, I have also decided to keep the TQ BII in my system as it does seem to reveal ever so slightly more detail across the spectrum in comparison to Naca5, without sacrificing any of the pace, rhythm and timing inherent to the Naim sound signature. So I will leave the cable in my system for the foreseeable future. 

All the best,

Vik

 

@Vik71 thanks a lot for reporting back. I'm also keeping the TQ Black II, it seems to be getting better. If I find it lacking in 6 months, I'll switch back - but I doubt it, all harshness in my system is gone, but not at the cost of sounding "shut in" or anything - in fact, as you say, there's more detail, and not just a smidgen (imo). 

Time to audition those ugly JBL 4312SE in a week or two - although I highly doubt my room (soundwise) or my waifu (lookwise) would be confortable with them. My dealer is inlove with those speakers, though, can't wait to hear them.

Thanks again, everyone, TQ Black II are keepers in my system.

Mayor West posted:
M37 posted:

Any TQ black USB users?

Hi M37. I use TQ Black speaker cable and the Ultra Black RCA in my system and tried the USB to complete the loom but wasn't convinced so stuck with my stock Chord Hugo USB cable in the end. 

Hi Mayor West,

Thank you. Is it a white stock cable? I kind of like the cable that came with 2qute. A little crisp though.

Did you experience any burn in problems with ultra black rca? Mine are still a bit base heavy and I kind of miss some texture compared to other similar priced interconnects.

 

M37 posted:
Mayor West posted:
M37 posted:

Any TQ black USB users?

Hi M37. I use TQ Black speaker cable and the Ultra Black RCA in my system and tried the USB to complete the loom but wasn't convinced so stuck with my stock Chord Hugo USB cable in the end. 

Hi Mayor West,

Thank you. Is it a white stock cable? I kind of like the cable that came with 2qute. A little crisp though.

Did you experience any burn in problems with ultra black rca? Mine are still a bit base heavy and I kind of miss some texture compared to other similar priced interconnects.

It's the white stock cable yes but I found the 20cm short one sounded better than the longer one supplied, presumably because of the shorter signal path. I don't think the 2qute comes with this shorter 20cm stock cable. The differences weren't huge though. 

I upgraded to the Ultra Black from Black RCA and thought that it was a great all round improvement. I picked it up second hand though so I let someone else suffer with the burn in pain. I've read of others having painfully long burn in periods with TQ interconnects though so they do come on song eventually. How long have you had it? 

Mayor West

 

 

 

It's the white stock cable yes but I found the 20cm short one sounded better than the longer one supplied, presumably because of the shorter signal path. I don't think the 2qute comes with this shorter 20cm stock cable. The differences weren't huge though. 

I upgraded to the Ultra Black from Black RCA and thought that it was a great all round improvement. I picked it up second hand though so I let someone else suffer with the burn in pain. I've read of others having painfully long burn in periods with TQ interconnects though so they do come on song eventually. How long have you had it? 

I have had them for 2 months. I remember the first few hours, I was totally amazed, the timing and how easy it was to hear vocals. But the last month or so they been somewhat painful as described by others.. hard to explain but it seem to be a certain frequency that irritates my ears. Perhaps room dependt but I'll give another month to see if i gets better.

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