Atom - DELAYED AGAIN?!?!

Sloop John B posted:

Rumour has it a new batch of Naim mugs are in the kiln as I type. 

 

.sjb

I'm one of the original batch of mugs who ordered an Atom believing a company of Naim's experience would:

a) Know how to make it

b) Have the utmost integrity when dealing with its customers

I called my dealer at the beginning of June - he told me the 'official line' was mid-June - but when pushed reckoned the end of June was more realistic. Unless something materialises in the next five working days, that will be two more deadlines missed.

I have lost all respect for the brand now - I shall be seeking out an alternative. I do not wish to give Naim any of my hard-earned cash, after this experience.

Kermit posted:

Any thoughts Naim regarding offering some kind of goodwill gesture to your patient customers who have waited 7 months for one of these Uniti products? I ordered an Atom  (and sold) my current system in November, thinking I was picking my Atom in a couple of weeks? 

I know that feeling -  sold both of mine! And the speakers, the I/C's - only kept the Amps.

richardhomer posted:
Sloop John B posted:

Rumour has it a new batch of Naim mugs are in the kiln as I type. 

 

.sjb

I'm one of the original batch of mugs who ordered an Atom believing a company of Naim's experience would:

a) Know how to make it

b) Have the utmost integrity when dealing with its customers

I called my dealer at the beginning of June - he told me the 'official line' was mid-June - but when pushed reckoned the end of June was more realistic. Unless something materialises in the next five working days, that will be two more deadlines missed.

I have lost all respect for the brand now -I shall be seeking out an alternative. I do not wish to give Naim any of my hard-earned cash, after this experience.

I think we should always be seeking out alternatives instead of blindly upgrading within a given brand. This ensures that the brand doesn't get too lazy or greedy and that we're getting the best listening experience for our hard earned cash. A familiar logo doesn't mean anything to me if it sounds mediocre, has buggy software or costs more than it should.

Obviously they are having issues.  The timeline keeps changing.  These issues are either technical or commercial.  I know that it is frustrating, but if the issue is technical do you want a flawed product?  If its commercial it is very likely out of their hands.

 

Brubacca posted:

Obviously they are having issues.  The timeline keeps changing.  These issues are either technical or commercial.  I know that it is frustrating, but if the issue is technical do you want a flawed product?  If its commercial it is very likely out of their hands.

 

Either way, it's a lack of competence and seriously damaging the brand

Perhaps the delay of the new Unity line is a blessing in disguise.

The day of black box is coming to an end, all electronics fit inside speakers, or perhaps your customized sound will just manifest itself in thin air. 

I the see the future of audio and it's nothing more then spoken commands and virtual reality ... are you ready to live in that world. 

Bill Allen posted:

Perhaps the delay of the new Unity line is a blessing in disguise.

The day of black box is coming to an end, all electronics fit inside speakers, or perhaps your customized sound will just manifest itself in thin air. 

I the see the future of audio and it's nothing more then spoken commands and virtual reality ... are you ready to live in that world. 

Yes and no, very willing to consider something like the Kii 3 or Dutch and Dutch. 

I draw the line at talking to them though!

 

.sjb

I'll be honest - if I'd put down a deposit and delivery was taking this long, I'd ask for my money back and never buy from that brand again. I like what Naim do sonically, but they're far from the only game in town. Chord, Linn, Rega, ATC, Bryston, Auralic . . . give them a listen. 

I was hoping the Uniti line-up would be quickly (ha!) followed by a refresh of the 272, but given where we are, that's decades away. I'm in no hurry, but when the time comes to upgrade, I'll only be short-listing products that actually exist. 

Myself I'm still holding out for an Atom ... I scoured the earth and this little beauty has everything I need ... except MQA. (And I understand Naim could always add that capability)

I just got a taste of a fully unfolded MQA direct from the mixing board at LAAS 2017 an it twisted my brain. This was not your grandaddy's MQA, it sounded like master tape. Very impressive!  https://www.stereophile.com/content/mqa-laas

Streaming aside, these new studio MQA files really have my attention. 

Solid Air posted:

I'll be honest - if I'd put down a deposit and delivery was taking this long, I'd ask for my money back and never buy from that brand again. I like what Naim do sonically, but they're far from the only game in town. Chord, Linn, Rega, ATC, Bryston, Auralic . . . give them a listen. 

I was hoping the Uniti line-up would be quickly (ha!) followed by a refresh of the 272, but given where we are, that's decades away. I'm in no hurry, but when the time comes to upgrade, I'll only be short-listing products that actually exist. 

I'm one of those people and it's got to that stage. I'm going to start looking around at different options as a back up now. The situation has dragged on far to long. I even get openly ridiculed by my partner for in her words"buying a hi-fi from a company that don't know how to build them" what can u I say she is right.

Before we had the false hope of made up deadlines, now there is not even this. I'm beginning to wonder if Naim borrowed some advisors from Theresa May's election campaign who are in charge of design, project management, launch, software, customer interaction and deadline realignment. 

Although communication has improved I know have no idea what timescale is in place are we talking this week, next year. Basically how close are we, with three certifications outstanding the situation doesn't appear to have moved forward in the last 8 months. It has got to the stage where 'nearly there' has to turn into, ready for release. It like Naim  now believe the release is not monitored by conventional time and have gone into some weird time vortex. 

 

 

Although communication has improved I know have no idea what timescale is in place are we talking this week, next year. Basically how close are we, with three certifications outstanding the situation doesn't appear to have moved forward in the last 8 months. It has got to the stage where 'nearly there' has to turn into, ready for release. It like Naim  now believe the release is not monitored by conventional time and have gone into some weird time vortex. 

 

It's the Rocky Horror Show

LETS DO THE TIME WARP AGAIN

Trevor Wilson posted:

if the  TV has optical it can of course be used. if however you wish to watch TV with only one remote the HMDI ARC feature on the Atom should allow for volume control from the TV remote to be passed down to the Atom,Star,Nova in order to make things simpler in life for that use case. ive used it for TV only, apple TV into TV and then into an Atom (volume from the Apple TV remote) and other scenarios.

Trevor

...also the TV / source device will automatically choose the correct audio format to send for the Atom / Star / Nova to play back when connected via HDMI.

As the Atom / Star / Nova don't have any form of surround sound decoding then unless customers specifically set the audio format in the TV menus to "PCM / Stereo" then they would get some programs (that were recorded in straight two channel stereo)) playing back OK but others either playing back as garbage or as silence (that were recorded with bitstream surround audio).

Some TVs either didn't have this option (or it was well hidden) or more annoyingly some of the Netflix / Amazon Prime app built into so-called 'smart' TVs didn't follow that setting and so would still output bitstream audio so in those cases an HDMI connection should resolve that issue ... ultimately it is simply more convenient.

Cheers

Phil

ssmith posted:
Solid Air posted:

I'll be honest - if I'd put down a deposit and delivery was taking this long, I'd ask for my money back and never buy from that brand again. I like what Naim do sonically, but they're far from the only game in town. Chord, Linn, Rega, ATC, Bryston, Auralic . . . give them a listen. 

I was hoping the Uniti line-up would be quickly (ha!) followed by a refresh of the 272, but given where we are, that's decades away. I'm in no hurry, but when the time comes to upgrade, I'll only be short-listing products that actually exist. 

I'm one of those people and it's got to that stage. I'm going to start looking around at different options as a back up now. The situation has dragged on far to long. I even get openly ridiculed by my partner for in her words"buying a hi-fi from a company that don't know how to build them" what can u I say she is right.

Before we had the false hope of made up deadlines, now there is not even this. I'm beginning to wonder if Naim borrowed some advisors from Theresa May's election campaign who are in charge of design, project management, launch, software, customer interaction and deadline realignment. 

Although communication has improved I know have no idea what timescale is in place are we talking this week, next year. Basically how close are we, with three certifications outstanding the situation doesn't appear to have moved forward in the last 8 months. It has got to the stage where 'nearly there' has to turn into, ready for release. It like Naim  now believe the release is not monitored by conventional time and have gone into some weird time vortex. 

 

I also wanted to add that the communication to dealers seems pretty poor. It could be just mine but they seem to be told one thing only for something different to be said via the forum later that day. In part I wonder if they know the full picture and are Just buying time. I can tell that they have gone beyond the point of frustration and seem to have a feeling of disdain at the whole situation. Anyhow rant over back to the real world.

ssmith posted:

I also wanted to add that the communication to dealers seems pretty poor. It could be just mine but they seem to be told one thing only for something different to be said via the forum later that day. In part I wonder if they know the full picture and are Just buying time. I can tell that they have gone beyond the point of frustration and seem to have a feeling of disdain at the whole situation. Anyhow rant over back to the real world.

Hi,

I have a regular weekly meeting on Monday afternoons with R&D, Software Test, Marketing and Sales - out of that a weekly update is generated that goes to Distributors, Dealers and the forum so there should be no issues with dealers not knowing the current state of play ...

Best

Phil

Phil Harris posted:
ssmith posted:

I also wanted to add that the communication to dealers seems pretty poor. It could be just mine but they seem to be told one thing only for something different to be said via the forum later that day. In part I wonder if they know the full picture and are Just buying time. I can tell that they have gone beyond the point of frustration and seem to have a feeling of disdain at the whole situation. Anyhow rant over back to the real world.

Hi,

I have a regular weekly meeting on Monday afternoons with R&D, Software Test, Marketing and Sales - out of that a weekly update is generated that goes to Distributors, Dealers and the forum so there should be no issues with dealers not knowing the current state of play ...

Best

Phil

Thanks Phil,

Just relaying my experience and feel better letting off some steam now. At the end of May I was told my Atom would be available second week in June. My dealer said he had confirmed this via Naim. Two hours later the Uniti thread was updated saying the product was still not production ready. I then spoke to my dealer who just sighed and said this was the first he had heard. Not trying to proportion blame more relay customer experience. To my mind things like this are making a difficult situation worse.

I think as recompense I should be upgraded to a full Statement setup.  

PS I'm not unreasonable I can arrange collection it does not need to be delivered.

Hungryhalibut posted:

Why? If a house purchase is delayed, you don't get a free gift. 

To be clear I'm not angling for a freebie. I don't think you can compare buying a supposedly production ready retail product to buying a house. Many companies would offer something for brand loyalty reasons for a excessive delay.

It shows how ludicrous this release is when it's being compared to buying property. When I bought my house it was far quicker than buying an Atom. In fact I could have bought three houses now. Actually that's how Naim should compensate me, every three months over deadline from this point forward I should get a house.

ssmith posted:
Hungryhalibut posted:

Why? If a house purchase is delayed, you don't get a free gift. 

To be clear I'm not angling for a freebie. I don't think you can compare buying a supposedly production ready retail product to buying a house. Many companies would offer something for brand loyalty reasons for a excessive delay.

It shows how ludicrous this release is when it's being compared to buying property. When I bought my house it was far quicker than buying an Atom. In fact I could have bought three houses now. Actually that's how Naim should compensate me, every three months over deadline from this point forward I should get a house.

naim audio had lost a lot of money in the longer production of the uniti range. I don't think they are very open to make a gift now.  Much probably the uniti range will be more expensive now   ...

 

Keler Pierre posted:
ssmith posted:
Hungryhalibut posted:

Why? If a house purchase is delayed, you don't get a free gift. 

To be clear I'm not angling for a freebie. I don't think you can compare buying a supposedly production ready retail product to buying a house. Many companies would offer something for brand loyalty reasons for a excessive delay.

It shows how ludicrous this release is when it's being compared to buying property. When I bought my house it was far quicker than buying an Atom. In fact I could have bought three houses now. Actually that's how Naim should compensate me, every three months over deadline from this point forward I should get a house.

naim audio had lost a lot of money in the longer production of the uniti range. I don't think they are very open to make a gift now.  Much probably the uniti range will be more expensive now   ...

 

I'm not buying them a house.

Whilst I have sympathy for anyone left without music and in a strange sense I'm attracted to this car crash of a thread, I believe that in 2-3 months this forum will be filled with glowing reports of the new uniti series as the sound quality is not the delay rather the 3rd party stuff (that we were all asking for over the years remember?). 

To keep the housing analogy, some people have bought off plans and been stung to some degree as there are delays in getting thorough some planning hoops. 

I have been on this forum for many years and have always been advised to listen before I buy, which is such a simple concept as to be hardly worth stating. If anything is to be learned by Naim customers from this is "never buy before listening to the product " as deviating from this rule (can) invariably end(s) in tears. 

It's incomprehensible to me that so many people have fallen foul of this simple precept. 

Instead of Naim providing a freebie you should be thankful to have learned a valuable lesson of audio purchasing, never purchase blind. 

.sjb

ssmith posted:
Keler Pierre posted:
ssmith posted:
Hungryhalibut posted:

Why? If a house purchase is delayed, you don't get a free gift. 

To be clear I'm not angling for a freebie. I don't think you can compare buying a supposedly production ready retail product to buying a house. Many companies would offer something for brand loyalty reasons for a excessive delay.

It shows how ludicrous this release is when it's being compared to buying property. When I bought my house it was far quicker than buying an Atom. In fact I could have bought three houses now. Actually that's how Naim should compensate me, every three months over deadline from this point forward I should get a house.

naim audio had lost a lot of money in the longer production of the uniti range. I don't think they are very open to make a gift now.  Much probably the uniti range will be more expensive now   ...

 

I'm not buying them a house.

i would be very angry too in your place...but the fact is there is maybe thousands of consumers waiting like you for their athom, or nova, so it is difficult to expect some gift.

The only positive thing is that you will receive a fully optimized product, with no software or hardware problems, not like the first uniti core naim have launched too quickly at that time.

Keler Pierre posted:
ssmith posted:
Keler Pierre posted:
ssmith posted:
Hungryhalibut posted:

Why? If a house purchase is delayed, you don't get a free gift. 

To be clear I'm not angling for a freebie. I don't think you can compare buying a supposedly production ready retail product to buying a house. Many companies would offer something for brand loyalty reasons for a excessive delay.

It shows how ludicrous this release is when it's being compared to buying property. When I bought my house it was far quicker than buying an Atom. In fact I could have bought three houses now. Actually that's how Naim should compensate me, every three months over deadline from this point forward I should get a house.

naim audio had lost a lot of money in the longer production of the uniti range. I don't think they are very open to make a gift now.  Much probably the uniti range will be more expensive now   ...

 

I'm not buying them a house.

i would be very angry too in your place...but the fact is there is maybe thousands of consumers waiting like you for their athom, or nova, so it is difficult to expect some gift.

The only positive thing is that you will receive a fully optimized product, with no software or hardware problems, not like the first uniti core naim have launched too quickly at that time.

Whilst my previous annoyance at the botched uniti release is serious. In no way am I asking for anything, other than at some stage, hopefully an Atom. 

audio1946 posted:

naim always say listen before you buy ,hardly anyone has listened  so if you have ordered before release ,put up with it

Disingenuous in the extreme! Clearly Naim's dealers are happy to take deposits/full payments to secure a pre-price increase model.

I hardly think the fault lies with the consumer....

richardhomer posted:

 

I hardly think the fault lies with the consumer....

 To a certain extent I believe it does. 

 It takes 2 to tango  and I think the decision to buy without hearing to save a few pounds was as suspect  as Naim announcing the launch of a product that they were not sure was ready to fully launch. 

 Lessons here for both sides I feel. 

.sjb

richardhomer posted:

Never mind comparing the Atom launch to a house purchase - if it takes much longer it would have been possible to have a baby quicker....

I want a baby in a month - bring me 9 women !!

 

Sorry, thought this thread could use some levity.

SamS posted:
richardhomer posted:

Never mind comparing the Atom launch to a house purchase - if it takes much longer it would have been possible to have a baby quicker....

I want a baby in a month - bring me 9 women !!

 

Sorry, thought this thread could use some levity.

I'm afraid you'll need to be certified first by Google and Spotify. So please temper your urge and be patient before you can upload your stuff.

 

I totally agree that this thread can use some levity.

I must admit that I bought my entire main system without listening to it first. I ordered my Qb before it was released and picked it up on launch day. I didn't pay a single penny of deposit though. 

Some people are happy to buy on spec and I don't feel that it's fair to blame them in part. I do think it was not entirely sensible to pay in full upfront, though a deposit is entirely reasonable. 

But we've been around the loop so many times now. We all know that Naim cocked up. They know that they cocked up and I'm sure that as a highly professional company they will learn from it, so further berating them won't help. 

It's  irritating when you are waiting though. If, six months ago, it was known to prospective purchasers that the products wouldn't be available for six months it would have been possible to cancel the order and go elsewhere, or decide to wait. But when it's next week, next month or whatever it's hard to decide at what point to cancel the order. It's like the Concorde Falacy - you've made an investment so you just keep going. The longer you hang on, the harder it is to quit. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

I must admit that I bought my entire main system without listening to it first. I ordered my Qb before it was released and picked it up on launch day. I didn't pay a single penny of deposit though. 

Some people are happy to buy on spec and I don't feel that it's fair to blame them in part. I do think it was not entirely sensible to pay in full upfront, though a deposit is entirely reasonable. 

But we've been around the loop so many times now. We all know that Naim cocked up. They know that they cocked up and I'm sure that as a highly professional company they will learn from it, so further berating them won't help. 

It's  irritating when you are waiting though. If, six months ago, it was known to prospective purchasers that the products wouldn't be available for six months it would have been possible to cancel the order and go elsewhere, or decide to wait. But when it's next week, next month or whatever it's hard to decide at what point to cancel the order. It's like the Concorde Falacy - you've made an investment so you just keep going. The longer you hang on, the harder it is to quit. 

That sums it up nicely. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

richardhomer posted:
audio1946 posted:

naim always say listen before you buy ,hardly anyone has listened  so if you have ordered before release ,put up with it

Disingenuous in the extreme! Clearly Naim's dealers are happy to take deposits/full payments to secure a pre-price increase model.

I hardly think the fault lies with the consumer....

Hi Guys,

I do understand the frustration but it is worth pointing out here (as it has previously been commented upon that we have insisted on deposits or up front payment for units being ordered)...

1) Any dealers (or distributors) that placed orders with us for any of the new Uniti line before the change in prices still get those units that they ordered at the pre-increase prices - obviously any units that they ordered after the notification of the revised prices would be at the later price.

2) Dealers (or distributors) are only charged for units once they have been shipped.

So believe me when I say it is in our interests to get units shipping too ...

Best

Phil 

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