Blimey, the 272 is even better than I thought it was...

Anyway, back on a subject at least related to of the quality of the 272/555DR + 300DR:  I've just replaced my interconnect cables with a pair of cables made from Mogami W2497...

The new ones are a considerable upgrade on the stock cables, quite a few "I never heard that before." moments.  Compared to the stock cables, I'd rate the upgrade as about 1/3 to 1/2 of the upgrade from a bare 272 to the 272/555DR.  Not bad for £23.35!

Hungryhalibut posted:

Ok, that’s more than enough. The list is closed. I’ll stop there and work it all out with Trevor. Please don’t expect to hear anything for a while!! I may have to resort to the ‘anyone who likes prog or dislikes The Smiths’ sorting system. 

I was just writing in an email to my friend Trickydickie that the new system is just so much better than the previous one. It’s just so much more musical, it’s like it isn’t there anymore. That may sound silly, but I can’t think of a better description. 

I really like the idea of a demonstration that goes from 272/555/300 to NDS/552/500 to NDS/Statement. I’ve not heard Statement before to that would be really interesting, so long as Naim are willing to use decent speakers, and not Sopras. 

I’m on the case. 

They are decent speakers - I live with Sopra 2s every day and can vouch that but of course you are entitled to your opinion -  but only if you've given them a fair audition as I did before buying. They obviously need a reasonably sized room to work at their best.

Of course if they still have a pair in the factory, the Ovator S800s could be interesting with the Statements. My dealer has the same setup at home and got one of the last pairs out of the factory - lucky man!

Huge posted:

Anyway, back on a subject at least related to of the quality of the 272/555DR + 300DR:  I've just replaced my interconnect cables with a pair of cables made from Mogami W2497...

The new ones are a considerable upgrade on the stock cables, quite a few "I never heard that before." moments.  Compared to the stock cables, I'd rate the upgrade as about 1/3 to 1/2 of the upgrade from a bare 272 to the 272/555DR.  Not bad for £23.35!

That would not be bad at all, especially if one could say that the XPS does about half what the 555 achieves. I’m not sure how I’d rank what the SL achieves in terms of proportions, in fact I find it really hard to objectivise the subjective in this way. Whatever, they certainly seem most successful. Bargain!

Yes comparison to the SL would be interesting; I strongly suspect the SL would win, but not in ratio to the price difference!


In respect of providing ratiometric assessment of subjective differences, yes it's not an easy thing and very variable person to person, so individual opinions are of very limited value.

The only way to get truly reliable results is to use a large panel of people (>10), get them to undergo a set of calibration exercises first (using fixed comparison points) then repeat the assessment of the unknowns multiple times.

Far too much pfaf for HiFi, at least outside of dedicated companies like Naim!

Huge posted:

Yes comparison to the SL would be interesting; I strongly suspect the SL would win, but not in ratio to the price difference!


In respect of providing ratiometric assessment of subjective differences, yes it's not an easy thing and very variable person to person, so individual opinions are of very limited value.

The only way to get truly reliable results is to use a large panel of people (>10), get them to undergo a set of calibration exercises first (using fixed comparison points) then repeat the assessment of the unknowns multiple times.

Far too much pfaf for HiFi, at least outside of dedicated companies like Naim!

Might I suggest that, whatever efforts you make to put these comparisons onto a pseudo-scientific basis, the moment you transfer from the listening room to the individual's home all bets are off! 

Huge posted:

Yes comparison to the SL would be interesting; I strongly suspect the SL would win, but not in ratio to the price difference!


In respect of providing ratiometric assessment of subjective differences, yes it's not an easy thing and very variable person to person, so individual opinions are of very limited value.

The only way to get truly reliable results is to use a large panel of people (>10), get them to undergo a set of calibration exercises first (using fixed comparison points) then repeat the assessment of the unknowns multiple times.

Far too much pfaf for HiFi, at least outside of dedicated companies like Naim!

I worked in market research for 12 years, mostly in the field of customer satisfaction. Quantitative research techniques are applied to the objective assessments of subjective topics as a matter of course and this provides reliable comparative assessments as long as certain statistical rules are obeyed, particularly the randomness, representivity and size of your sample.

Not sure any hifi manufacturer would be prepared to pay for the rather expensive quantitative research projects I used to run.

Geez, it has all come flooding back.

I have just realised I am again guilty of perpetuating thread diversion - apologies.

As punishment, I will report back on my findings from the home demo of the 555DR I have lined up.

This all reminds me of my PhD, doing seemingly endless repetitions of foraging tests, sitting in near darkness watching fish under infra red light. Then there was the analysis, mainly regression and correlation, which seemed to take ages back then, when jobs were submitted and ran overnight, coming back on yards of green and white printout. Tonight I’m off to a talk by the captain of the Sir David Attenborough, the Antarctic research vessel that nearly got called Boaty McBoatface. And there is a beer break halfway through. 

I quit master of musicology after half a year because of these kind of assignments and even more because of the boring fellow students. Total absense of humour, way too serious. Certain people really take these scientific assignments serious.

Returned to my job.

When were you counting Elminius, Huge?  I was a marine algologist a while back, and part of a team of people surveying the UK coastline for habitat/species in order to recommend SSSIs, nature reserves etc., back in the late 70s.  Did a PhD on the effects of pollution on the marine macroscopic algae of the Firth of Forth.  Great fun.  Also did an investigation into the effects of mercury on algae.  And worked in Orkney doing a base-line survey of the littoral and sublittoral before Occidental finished building their oil terminal on Flotta.

Beachcomber posted:

Looks like marine biologists share great taste in hifi kit :-)

My PhD is in behavioural ecology - the evolutionary consequences of adaptive behaviour. When I was doing it in Leicester in the 80s, Alec Jeffreys was doing the work that led to DNA fingerprinting, a couple of labs down the corridor from me. A very nice man, I remember. We thought nothing much about the work at the time. He certainly got a lot more from his research!! It’s amazing the benefits that come from pure research sometimes. Group behaviour in humans has many similarities to that in animals. The Forum is interesting at times. 

Hungryhalibut posted:
quickben posted:
The Strat (Fender) posted:

How did we get from cats to crustaceans?

With Naim, the world is your mollusc, and you can always get the cream

Molluscs and crustaceans are totally different though....

Going at a snail's pace wood louse that up!

Anyway, in an attempt to get this back on track (sort of), as I have the demo 555PSDR now and the burndies arrive tomorrow, a couple of quick questions on attaching burndies to a 555 and NDS. Is it still recommended to tighten the collars and then loosen a quarter of a turn? And any advice on distressing (the burndies that is) gratefully received. 

<starts writing a posting about 30 years experience of designing, running and the statistical analysis of listening tests, and how we have an IEC listening and viewing room, and are probably the only place in the world that is ISO17025 audited and accredited for subjective listening and viewing tests>

<decides to have a cup of tea instead>

I’ve never heard of loosening the collars, which sounds rather dodgy to me. I may have missed something though and would be interested to hear from anyone who advises this. I’d worry about them working undone and dropping out if they weren’t fully locked.

Just give them a good wiggle about, starting from one end and going to the other. Make sure you form them into the right shape before connecting, so that they go in without needing any twisting of the plug. 

The Strat (Fender) posted:
David Hendon posted:

Despite being a Guardian reader (a subscriber even) 

.............surely you don't like the Smiths?

To be honest I'm not sure that I would recognise the Smiths if I heard them...

So let's put that down as agnostic..

best

David

Hungryhalibut posted:

I’ve never heard of loosening the collars, which sounds rather dodgy to me. I may have missed something though and would be interested to hear from anyone who advises this. I’d worry about them working undone and dropping out if they weren’t fully locked.

Quite right - Don't unlock / loosen the collars. I've seen the cable clamp tightness mentioned before but again best left alone as too loose will stress the cable entry and could pull a pin through. 

David Hendon posted:
The Strat (Fender) posted:
David Hendon posted:

Despite being a Guardian reader (a subscriber even) 

.............surely you don't like the Smiths?

To be honest I'm not sure that I would recognise the Smiths if I heard them...

So let's put that down as agnostic..

best

David

You are someone in need of a visit to Emsworth. 

RE Burndy collars:  forum post from Paul Stephenson in 2001  "Forget it, cable weight is too heavy and serious damage will be done!!"       Also cautions against loosening SNAIC locking rings  ............. 

The thread was about loosening locking rings on the Preh DIN plug as fitted to the 'Lavender' IC       

nigelb posted:

Anyway, in an attempt to get this back on track (sort of), as I have the demo 555PSDR now and the burndies arrive tomorrow, a couple of quick questions on attaching burndies to a 555 and NDS. Is it still recommended to tighten the collars and then loosen a quarter of a turn? And any advice on distressing (the burndies that is) gratefully received. 

Nigel, I think you may be confusing the locking collar rings - which should always be done up and never loosened unless the PSU is switched off and you're in the process of removing the Burndy lead - and the strain relief, which needs to allow a small mount of movement when the connector is twisted.  If you don't know what you're doing then just leave well alone otherwise you could end up damaging the Burndy lead and facing a costly repair bill.

jon honeyball posted:

<starts writing a posting about 30 years experience of designing, running and the statistical analysis of listening tests, and how we have an IEC listening and viewing room, and are probably the only place in the world that is ISO17025 audited and accredited for subjective listening and viewing tests>

<decides to have a cup of tea instead>

Earl Grey I trust Jon? Milk or lemon?

Hungryhalibut posted:
David Hendon posted:
The Strat (Fender) posted:
David Hendon posted:

Despite being a Guardian reader (a subscriber even) 

.............surely you don't like the Smiths?

To be honest I'm not sure that I would recognise the Smiths if I heard them...

So let's put that down as agnostic..

best

David

You are someone in need of a visit to Emsworth. 

That sounds suspiciously like an invitation HH! Thank you. My wife says I've got to finish the bathroom first...

best

David

Sometimes, often in fact, I wonder why we have replaced nine doors. That’s primer round the edges, two coats of undercoat, two coats of oil based eggshell.... It’s a bloody good thing I’ve retired. I’ve nearly finished two. We are doing our bathroom in February. I say ‘we’ but we are staying in a cottage in Yorkshire and leaving the builders the keys. 

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