CDX2 vs streaming.

I can't see me going down the ndac route. Part of what I like about the 272 is the integrated dac. I didn't give it much thought at the time but now my system is in my office, which is half the size of my lounge, box count will come in to play. I just don't have the space. I haven't tried a 282 which was the original direction I was going, but I feel this my take me towards a system that is too much for my room. Ive already found that the dedicated supply cable size has a big impact on this. I guess I could chop everything in for an atom, but the speakers I have would always be hungry for the 250. 272/XPSDR/250DR is where I can see my system finishing. 

Mike-B posted:

Finland, keep in mind  simple laptop or PC/Mac to rip CD to  a NAS.  Core is OK for ripping, but then what?  You start buying hidef (24 bit) downloads & its ripping function is doing nothing.   Cost & the flexibility of so many other features  of NAS win hands down & by a significant amount.  And the same is true of any & all of the CD rip machines.

I agree. I just don't understand dedicated CD rippers. Admittedly I haven't tried one, and will not discount the possibility of some sonic benefits. But what with the plethora of high resolution albums, even allowing for the fairly high proportion of duds, why limit yourself to Red Book hifi standards written decades ago?

Streaming good quality files wins for me, on balance.

My experience with Tidal echoes that of CHRISSU and HMACK. Tidal sound quality sounds pretty good to me. It' not quite as good as local 16 bit CD rips, but there isn't a huge difference.  I don't use it as my primary source but as a way to investigate new music or for casual listening of music that I don't own it is pretty good.  I also use the desktop client (which allows me to playback the MQA Master files) at work with a pair of headphones and am happy enough with the sound quality to not feel I need lossless CD rips in that environment. 

I just think there's so many variables in all of this to make any conclusion impossible and personal preference will therefore be the deciding factor.  As to whether CD or NAS or streaming is sonically superior will be down to a variety of factors, mastering, quality of the CDP, network, file type etc. For me CD and indeed vinyl is refreshingly simple even if the latter does require more care and maintenance.  For others the flexibility etc of streaming/network enabled solutions is the winner.  That's about it really - it's all good.

Regards,

Lindsay

Finkfan posted:

I can't see me going down the ndac route. Part of what I like about the 272 is the integrated dac. I didn't give it much thought at the time but now my system is in my office, which is half the size of my lounge, box count will come in to play. I just don't have the space. I haven't tried a 282 which was the original direction I was going, but I feel this my take me towards a system that is too much for my room. Ive already found that the dedicated supply cable size has a big impact on this. I guess I could chop everything in for an atom, but the speakers I have would always be hungry for the 250. 272/XPSDR/250DR is where I can see my system finishing. 

The point of my suggestion was that if you get a Core (and use SPDIF) the only part of the 272 you'd be using would be the DAC, as you'd be bypassing it's streamer, and you already have an analogue preamp, so spending less money on a better DAC would give you better sound quality overall and no redundancy. As HH says, you would not gain the web based services you get from a streamer (Tidal, iRadio etc.) but that isn't a sound quality benefit.

I have to say that while variable ,  SQ with Tidal Hi Fi service is generally as good as local streaming from my NAS drive and in fact with some music seems even better in some ways. I use a 272 with 555PS and am in the US with very good bandwidth in my house.

I listen to tidal about 1/3-1/2 of the time lately. To me it almost always sounds very good. I usually don't own the CDs for the tracks I get from Tidal so I can't make an exact A-B comparison. Maybe I'm just lucky in that I have fiber internet connection with extremely low latency? Maybe living in the US is better? IDK but I believe it is pretty close to streaming local rips.

I'm sat in my office, doing a little paperwork whilst it rains. After listening to a few tracks I felt the music just didn't sound right. Neither from the local streams, cd or Tidal. I decided to experiment! I shut down the system and removed it from the 10mm dedicated supply. Its now plugged in to the office ring main. Wow! What a difference! Not all good, but not all bad either! Details have returned. Music iS flowing better. The boomy bass I'd put down to room issues has completely gone! The downside is that the system is now lacking slightly in bass. The low end grunt bass has been drastically reduced. This has changed the sound of Tidal too. It's far superior to what I was hearing 10 minutes ago. It's no longer flat and lifeless. It's dynamic and near as damn it at cd level. 

Now this could mean a few things. Either the 'poor' power supply has become a great leveller of the inputs to the system or the 10mm dedicated supply is too much for my little room. The difference is huge between these two supplies. 

I did think ahead whilst building the office and there is a 6mm cable run in along side the 10mm. I will, when I get a moment, get the 10 changed to 6 and see how this sounds. My gut feeling is that this will be a sweet spot, being on a dedicated supply and less meaty than the 10mm. I'll post my findings. Whatever happens the 272 is staying! 

To those who use Tidal, what is your mains supply? Does it only sound ropey on a 10mm cable? 

I reads like your system has started to sound bad today so why would the 10mm dedicated supply 'gone bad' overnight?

As discussed in another topic, periodically powering a system down and back up will usually 'freshen things up' considerably so the switch to to other supply could be the reason for the changed sound as well.

KTMax posted:

I reads like your system has started to sound bad today so why would the 10mm dedicated supply 'gone bad' overnight?

As discussed in another topic, periodically powering a system down and back up will usually 'freshen things up' considerably so the switch to to other supply could be the reason for the changed sound as well.

It not that's it's gone bad over night really. I haven't had a long time to sit and listen to the new setup and it's been plumbed in to the 10mm dedicated supply from day 1 in its new location. On initial switch on it was rough as old boots. Plugged in to the standard ring (also new) and it all sounded much better. After spending a few evenings in the office with the system on in the background I just felt today it wasn't sounding right. Lacking in detail with a kind of muddy bottom end. Increasing the volume made things worse. I thought it might be 'small room issues', and maybe it is. The ordinary 2.5mm ring isn't right, but after a short time, better to listen to than the 10mm. At least for me. 

have owned a CDX2 through XPS (Non DR) - now have bare NDX - for me on quality of music presenation they are both great vehicles, which one do I prefer now having had the NDX for 3 years - have to say NDX also hav heard the 272 on demo

I went down the NDX route because I also play vinyl and the box count was not a concern but either is a real coin toss

the one issue I don't miss is getting up to change CD's - and the huge CD rack has gone and replaced by an IPAD

spacey posted:

So have you pulled the trigger on the 272 yet?

I haven't made the call yet. My dealer will give me a few weeks of uninterrupted playing before he calls me. I think it's here to stay though. I've only had one glitch so far. The app went blank earlier today. Couldn't do anything. Uninstalled it. Re installed it. Still no joy but had the settings menu only. Pressed reset app and all was ok again. Now you don't get that with a CD player. 

Internet streaming only for me - Qobuz for quality.

And it will only get better.

But, that means another wave of choices & pros n cons.

For example, use Qobuz with different devices (ipad, android phone etc) & you'll get a different sound, for better or worse.

The broadcaster is now a part of the hifi too.

In terms of radio, stations such as classic fm & bbc have spent a lot of time, money & expertise getting it very good. Others don't appear to have bothered quite so much...

Finkfan posted:
spacey posted:

So have you pulled the trigger on the 272 yet?

I haven't made the call yet. My dealer will give me a few weeks of uninterrupted playing before he calls me. I think it's here to stay though. I've only had one glitch so far. The app went blank earlier today. Couldn't do anything. Uninstalled it. Re installed it. Still no joy but had the settings menu only. Pressed reset app and all was ok again. Now you don't get that with a CD player. 

I take it you're using a NAS drive  and you've installed asset5.1 on it?

Finkfan posted:

Nope. This is my first attempt at streaming. I'm ripping files to flac using wmp on my laptop. Streaming from there. 

Well that's your issue right there. When you do pull the trigger, keep it in mind that you'll need a NAS drive.

Its v simple really; I built one with a QNAP TS-251+ with 8GB. Installed 2x1TB SSD's. cost me £600 to build (all new from the net) with a bit of thrifty shopping. All you need do is install the SSD's and Asset Premium 5.1

The naim app works a treat with Asset.   

Finkfan posted:

Nope. This is my first attempt at streaming. I'm ripping files to flac using wmp on my laptop. Streaming from there. 

i am not sure WMP is very good,i use jriver on my laptop.i would simply copy some files to a usb thumb drive,and stick them in the front port of the 272...see if that sounds any better.

I don't think solid state drives are essential. They are, no doubt, faster and quieter than conventional drives but they are much more expensive.  Also, depending on how much music you want to store now or in the future, 1 TB may not be enough. I suspect SSDs with larger capacity are neither readily available nor cheap at present. I may be wrong. I have a 'silent' fanless QNAP nas with 2 x 3 TB conventional hard drives.  I've run this for 3 years without any problems. It seems to be fast and it is not located in my listening room so is completely 'silent'. 

As others have suggested, DBPoweramp and Asset seem to work very well. I would certainly recommend them.

AndrewG posted:

I don't think solid state drives are essential. They are, no doubt, faster and quieter than conventional drives but they are much more expensive.  Also, depending on how much music you want to store now or in the future, 1 TB may not be enough. I suspect SSDs with larger capacity are neither readily available nor cheap at present. I may be wrong. I have a 'silent' fanless QNAP nas with 2 x 3 TB conventional hard drives.  I've run this for 3 years without any problems. It seems to be fast and it is not located in my listening room so is completely 'silent'. 

As others have suggested, DBPoweramp and Asset seem to work very well. I would certainly recommend them.

SSDs are much faster. quieter and run cooler. I have my nas in the same room as my system and its silent.

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