CDX2 vs streaming.

Finkfan posted:

Tidal was flat when I first tried it. But 6 weeks down the line and it sounds extremely good. For me, I guess it was the 272 burning in. 

Indeed, Tidal is FLAC which can sound less than ideal on Naim, and the internet route and server latency at a particular time and or track replay can affect how hard the network tcp machine in the streamer works. In experiments I have undertaken I have found this can  subtly affect SQ, although this is lessened to a fair degree by using an off board DAC from the streamer transport.

Simon

Listening  through my old beloved vintage CD5 atm at my estate house. WWith a genuine cd it's easy to get nìce results its Just plug and play. Partnered it with a good preamp power combo and you're done. You get lost in music. Naim cd players are among the best and you can easily tell it. A friend of mine is keeping his cdx2 even though he' s avinyl chap and I clearly understand why.I know I won T Blaime him for that , a cds3 is about to enter my main system .anyway In this principal set-up instead things have never been so complicated. ANaim streamer is not fit and forget unfortunately you have to deal with cable s, server rippers and router.same streamer may act wrong or Right depending on the configuration. I'm reading about flacs well naim streamers don T work best with these but wav. And again ,served by core is the secret of a very good sound. And then we have Thos Naim hybrids designs where things are even worse as  per their compromised nature. We all know Naim won T issue any more of these products except for the entry line and pure  streamers are already not easy task to configure and trash cd players. Which is happening but slowly.

To me the aim of a Naim set-up,actually of any good sounding hifi system,  should be listening to the software the best possible way. Re-discover music not discover it(The latter can be done otherwise and very cheap too). The ease coming from discovering new artists and all that one-click  is not unfortunately guarantee of the above but a facility if one's using streaming services. I would go further saying technology and media  have to be dealt with care as brain washing is always round the corner.  CDs quality is just that important either you deal with streamers or any CD player , luckily they're still being sold and anyone is allowed to extract the content or keep it. But if you don't really follow all the critical issues before the music is served to the source you are simply wasting your time, your money and happiness. Sorry but I would not bother at all those optimistic statements from people telling miracles and advising to buy and sell tech, they seem to really luck good common sense. Always follow experienced people, sellers with good knowledge ,know-how not improvised gurus over the net.

wenger2015 posted:

Enjoyed my time with Finkfan and the 272, at the moment it's not performing to the cdx2 standard,  but for convenience, choice of music, discovering new music,  it's a superb box.

WENGER

if you were only listening to Tidal on the 272,you are nowhere near it's potential.High res files streamed via SPDIF from my Core to the 272...with an XPSDR on the 272,might give the Cdx2 a run for it's money.This is just a guess,I have not heard the Cdx2,but Core>272>XPSDR  is VERY good!

I have to admit No Quarter I've held off buying a nas untill I hear how good the Core is. My dealer will give me a great deal on p/x with the CDX2. 

I did try an XPSDR on the 272 and while it was better I couldn't justify the price tag. My dealer has an XP5XS at HiCap money that I can try. But part of me really wants to hear a 555. New would be out of the question though! 

No quarter posted:
wenger2015 posted:

Enjoyed my time with Finkfan and the 272, at the moment it's not performing to the cdx2 standard,  but for convenience, choice of music, discovering new music,  it's a superb box.

WENGER

if you were only listening to Tidal on the 272,you are nowhere near it's potential.High res files streamed via SPDIF from my Core to the 272...with an XPSDR on the 272,might give the Cdx2 a run for it's money.This is just a guess,I have not heard the Cdx2,but Core>272>XPSDR  is VERY good!

Nice a much more sensible way to spend money I reckon CORE first than anything else.

My N272/555/CDX.2.2 are gone replaced by an Aavik U-300 Integrated amplifier and Aurender N10 streamer.  Music was copied from my NAS to the N10 and CD's replaced by Tidal. 

Five boxes replaced.  Several expensive cables replaced.  Tidal have the kind of music I like and the quality is getting better all the time.  The choices seem endless and I never listen to RAP, Rock, current POP, etc. Admittedly, I don't recognize 90% of what's on Tidal but whatever I've looked for I've found.  I'm setting about filling up the 4TB of N10 storage with music from Tidal. That's going to take a while.

Is Tidal as good as the CDX2.2 into a good DAC?  I don't know but I do know that I'll never give up Tidal or the N10.   

BTW, Tidal is giving me a 40% military veterans discount.  Thanks Jay Z.  

Bud

 

Antonio1 posted:
No quarter posted:
wenger2015 posted:

Enjoyed my time with Finkfan and the 272, at the moment it's not performing to the cdx2 standard,  but for convenience, choice of music, discovering new music,  it's a superb box.

WENGER

if you were only listening to Tidal on the 272,you are nowhere near it's potential.High res files streamed via SPDIF from my Core to the 272...with an XPSDR on the 272,might give the Cdx2 a run for it's money.This is just a guess,I have not heard the Cdx2,but Core>272>XPSDR  is VERY good!

Nice a much more sensible way to spend money I reckon CORE first than anything else.

So what is the best way of getting the maximum performance  from a 272? 

 

Leatherneck posted:

My N272/555/CDX.2.2 are gone replaced by an Aavik U-300 Integrated amplifier and Aurender N10 streamer.  Music was copied from my NAS to the N10 and CD's replaced by Tidal. 

Five boxes replaced.  Several expensive cables replaced.  Tidal have the kind of music I like and the quality is getting better all the time.  The choices seem endless and I never listen to RAP, Rock, current POP, etc. Admittedly, I don't recognize 90% of what's on Tidal but whatever I've looked for I've found.  I'm setting about filling up the 4TB of N10 storage with music from Tidal. That's going to take a while.

Is Tidal as good as the CDX2.2 into a good DAC?  I don't know but I do know that I'll never give up Tidal or the N10.   

BTW, Tidal is giving me a 40% military veterans discount.  Thanks Jay Z.  

Bud

 

Aavik and XT-2. Nice! I know a few others that have moved from Naim to Aavik. That seems to be a very nice box. 

spurrier sucks posted:
Leatherneck posted:

My N272/555/CDX.2.2 are gone replaced by an Aavik U-300 Integrated amplifier and Aurender N10 streamer.  Music was copied from my NAS to the N10 and CD's replaced by Tidal. 

Five boxes replaced.  Several expensive cables replaced.  Tidal have the kind of music I like and the quality is getting better all the time.  The choices seem endless and I never listen to RAP, Rock, current POP, etc. Admittedly, I don't recognize 90% of what's on Tidal but whatever I've looked for I've found.  I'm setting about filling up the 4TB of N10 storage with music from Tidal. That's going to take a while.

Is Tidal as good as the CDX2.2 into a good DAC?  I don't know but I do know that I'll never give up Tidal or the N10.   

BTW, Tidal is giving me a 40% military veterans discount.  Thanks Jay Z.  

Bud

 

Aavik and XT-2. Nice! I know a few others that have moved from Naim to Aavik. That seems to be a very nice box. 

I am sure it is,but I can't afford that all at once,Naim allows you to build your system over time.

Finkfan posted:

I have to admit No Quarter I've held off buying a nas untill I hear how good the Core is. My dealer will give me a great deal on p/x with the CDX2. 

I did try an XPSDR on the 272 and while it was better I couldn't justify the price tag. My dealer has an XP5XS at HiCap money that I can try. But part of me really wants to hear a 555. New would be out of the question though! 

Give the XP5XS a go it's very good, I use one on the 272 took a week to settle but now sounds sublime plus you are unlocking all power rails in the 272 and removing the power supply within the 272.

 

No quarter posted:

I would say,192khz files fed from a Core in SPDIF mode,using a 555DR power supply on the 272>Full loom Superlumina>300 DR amp or above...all using powerlines on "Full Fraim"

If you're going to use the 272 in S/Pdiff, why use a streamer?

As an S/Pdiff DAC + Preamp, a HugoTT or nDAC + 282 / HiCapDR will probably be better than the 272/555.

No quarter posted:
Finkfan posted:

I'll be speaking to my dealer tomorrow so I may well get it over for a listen. 

I tried one (XP5XS),it did not do much at all in my set up,but it might be speaker dependant.

Comes on song after a week or so, for me a worth while upgrade but my Tab 10 are very revealing and without the XP5 you do notice a difference 

Interesting.

When I tried an XPSDR it did improve things to a certain extent. Most noticeable was soundstage that became far more 3 dimensional. The sound was 'cleaner'. It was good. But that price tag.....  I'd be interested to hear what an XP5XS does for a more modest outlay. 

What did the XP5XS do in your system NQ? 

Because everyone who owns a 272 rightly strives for the XPSdr or 555 the XP5 seems to be dismissed maybe down to price (too cheap) I don't know but what I do know is that the XP5 has raised the bar on my 272, added bass, detail and a great sound stage. Give one a go but try for more than a week as the improvement is most noticeable. Mine has now been in place for 3-4 weeks and sill improving, big test for me is the wife who doesn't  not notice any upgrade I make but even she has noticed.

Not sure why they stopped production but the XP5 was primarily designed for the ND5xs but can power as stated by Naim NDS and CDS3 so says a lot about the XP5 capabilities.

If your dealer has one for the cost of a HiCap give it a go only you can justify if it's worth while.

 

 

No quarter posted:
spurrier sucks posted:
Leatherneck posted:

My N272/555/CDX.2.2 are gone replaced by an Aavik U-300 Integrated amplifier and Aurender N10 streamer.  Music was copied from my NAS to the N10 and CD's replaced by Tidal. 

Five boxes replaced.  Several expensive cables replaced.  Tidal have the kind of music I like and the quality is getting better all the time.  The choices seem endless and I never listen to RAP, Rock, current POP, etc. Admittedly, I don't recognize 90% of what's on Tidal but whatever I've looked for I've found.  I'm setting about filling up the 4TB of N10 storage with music from Tidal. That's going to take a while.

Is Tidal as good as the CDX2.2 into a good DAC?  I don't know but I do know that I'll never give up Tidal or the N10.   

BTW, Tidal is giving me a 40% military veterans discount.  Thanks Jay Z.  

Bud

 

Aavik and XT-2. Nice! I know a few others that have moved from Naim to Aavik. That seems to be a very nice box. 

I am sure it is,but I can't afford that all at once,Naim allows you to build your system over time.

It took me sixty years to get it.  My wife and I had the same moderate system fo 36 years and only bought something new.when the PS of our ancient preamp went bad.  I keep thinking I've gone too far and that I'd be happy to go back to something more simple and less costly.  The problem is that once you've heard it, you can't go back.

its a desease focusing on the equipment and not the music.  I'm hoping having the combination of a streamer and a streaming service will cure me.  Now i wonder if speakers with a front port would sound better in my small apartment��

Bud

Leatherneck posted:
No quarter posted:
spurrier sucks posted:
Leatherneck posted:

My N272/555/CDX.2.2 are gone replaced by an Aavik U-300 Integrated amplifier and Aurender N10 streamer.  Music was copied from my NAS to the N10 and CD's replaced by Tidal. 

Five boxes replaced.  Several expensive cables replaced.  Tidal have the kind of music I like and the quality is getting better all the time.  The choices seem endless and I never listen to RAP, Rock, current POP, etc. Admittedly, I don't recognize 90% of what's on Tidal but whatever I've looked for I've found.  I'm setting about filling up the 4TB of N10 storage with music from Tidal. That's going to take a while.

Is Tidal as good as the CDX2.2 into a good DAC?  I don't know but I do know that I'll never give up Tidal or the N10.   

BTW, Tidal is giving me a 40% military veterans discount.  Thanks Jay Z.  

Bud

 

Aavik and XT-2. Nice! I know a few others that have moved from Naim to Aavik. That seems to be a very nice box. 

I am sure it is,but I can't afford that all at once,Naim allows you to build your system over time.

It took me sixty years to get it.  My wife and I had the same moderate system fo 36 years and only bought something new.when the PS of our ancient preamp went bad.  I keep thinking I've gone too far and that I'd be happy to go back to something more simple and less costly.  The problem is that once you've heard it, you can't go back.

its a desease focusing on the equipment and not the music.  I'm hoping having the combination of a streamer and a streaming service will cure me.  Now i wonder if speakers with a front port would sound better in my small apartment��

Bud

XT-1? Keep the XT-2. Really would have like to hear the XT-2. 

Huge posted:
No quarter posted:

I would say,192khz files fed from a Core in SPDIF mode,using a 555DR power supply on the 272>Full loom Superlumina>300 DR amp or above...all using powerlines on "Full Fraim"

If you're going to use the 272 in S/Pdiff, why use a streamer?

As an S/Pdiff DAC + Preamp, a HugoTT or nDAC + 282 / HiCapDR will probably be better than the 272/555.

Sorry for the late reply HUGE,to kind of answer your question...because I already own a 272,I am not about to trade it in on a 282,probably lose money on it,and have to shell out a bunch more.Besides,I like the 272 for Tidal,and internet radio.I have my old Hugo on loan this week from my friend that I sold it to...so today I tried running from the Core >to Hugo>to 272 analog inputs>to 250DR>Dynaudio excite 12's.The result,after only a few hours of listening mind you,there really is no improvement I hear with the Hugo in the chain,over running the Core SPDIF out directly into the 272 digital input,and using the 272's internal DAC.He has agreed to let me use the Hugo all week,so I will know more by the end of the week,but to me,the 272's DAC holds it's own against the little wonder DAC from Chord.

I suspect it's not the DACs you are hearing as they are very different beasts and do things quite differently, but it's the preamp stage you are hearing as the determining factor. The 272 preamp is effectively optimised for its DAC. If you want to use third party DACs a different preamp to the 272 might be better to use. With the Hugo for example I have only really heard what it can offer better to my ears over an NDS or NDAC on a 552 and 252 (with ebb and flow and the Mandelbrot effect)... but all Naim TI DAC implementations I have heard are highly enjoyable and all can very much hold their own... ultimately you are limited/differentiated by the reconstruction techniques and the chosen compromises of the converters.... and as DA reconstruction is ultimately inexact and creating a facsimile of the sound we will all hear and interpret things subconsciously slightly differently...

Huge posted:
No quarter posted:

I would say,192khz files fed from a Core in SPDIF mode,using a 555DR power supply on the 272>Full loom Superlumina>300 DR amp or above...all using powerlines on "Full Fraim"

If you're going to use the 272 in S/Pdiff, why use a streamer?

As an S/Pdiff DAC + Preamp, a HugoTT or nDAC + 282 / HiCapDR will probably be better than the 272/555.

Possibly, but the the 272 has been designed with its synergy in mind and therefore sounds optimum for what it is.. I guess it all depends as to what one is referring to as 'better'... e.g. My post above to NQ, and I suspect this becomes quite individualistic.

And further I find the Transport/DAC synergy of the CDX2 wonderful and I enjoy it for what it is... but yes my NAC allows my to savour the nuances and differences from different sources... 

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I suspect it's not the DACs you are hearing as they are very different beasts and do things quite differently, but it's the preamp stage you are hearing as the determining factor. The 272 preamp is effectively optimised for its DAC. If you want to use third party DACs a different preamp to the 272 might be better to use. With the Hugo for example I have only really heard what it can offer better to my ears over an NDS or NDAC on a 552 and 252 (with ebb and flow and the Mandelbrot effect)... but all Naim TI DAC implementations I have heard are highly enjoyable and all can very much hold their own... ultimately you are limited/differentiated by the reconstruction techniques and the chosen compromises of the converters.... and as DA reconstruction is ultimately inexact and creating a facsimile of the sound we will all hear and interpret things subconsciously slightly differently...

Hi Simon

I am not sure if what you are saying is the case,possibly,or even probably...about the Hugo's synergy with the 272.Luckily,I also have another good pre-amp here that I use for home theatre,which is a Cary audio Cinema 12.I am going to try using the Core/Hugo as a source into it,now the Cary has a very good separate 2 channel circuit,as well as the multi channel options.I will probably just use my 5 channel amp for this test,I am not sure how well the 250 DR would work running off a non Naim pre.

No quarter posted:
Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I suspect it's not the DACs you are hearing as they are very different beasts and do things quite differently, but it's the preamp stage you are hearing as the determining factor. The 272 preamp is effectively optimised for its DAC. If you want to use third party DACs a different preamp to the 272 might be better to use. With the Hugo for example I have only really heard what it can offer better to my ears over an NDS or NDAC on a 552 and 252 (with ebb and flow and the Mandelbrot effect)... but all Naim TI DAC implementations I have heard are highly enjoyable and all can very much hold their own... ultimately you are limited/differentiated by the reconstruction techniques and the chosen compromises of the converters.... and as DA reconstruction is ultimately inexact and creating a facsimile of the sound we will all hear and interpret things subconsciously slightly differently...

Hi Simon

I am not sure if what you are saying is the case,possibly,or even probably...about the Hugo's synergy with the 272.Luckily,I also have another good pre-amp here that I use for home theatre,which is a Cary audio Cinema 12.I am going to try using the Core/Hugo as a source into it,now the Cary has a very good separate 2 channel circuit,as well as the multi channel options.I will probably just use my 5 channel amp for this test,I am not sure how well the 250 DR would work running off a non Naim pre.

This is what I ended up doing after moving from 272/XPS/250DR to NDX/XPS/250DR, partly because I don't have the room for a NAC and associated power supplies as well. I compared the Hugo2 into 272/XPS and it was different but not any noticeable step up. Interestingly the NDX into 272/XPS was slightly better but the latter was not really outclassed.

I use a Classe Sigma AV processor for home cinema and just on the off-chance tried routing the NDX and Hugo through it in place of the 272. Again not much difference. However when I moved the XPS onto the NDX then into the Sigma, this was a huge improvement. It really is a special combination along with the 250DR amp. 

The only downside was the need for additional cabling to get the best out of the system (Chord Signature TA DIN-RCA and RCA-XLR).

Felty99 posted:
No quarter posted:
Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I suspect it's not the DACs you are hearing as they are very different beasts and do things quite differently, but it's the preamp stage you are hearing as the determining factor. The 272 preamp is effectively optimised for its DAC. If you want to use third party DACs a different preamp to the 272 might be better to use. With the Hugo for example I have only really heard what it can offer better to my ears over an NDS or NDAC on a 552 and 252 (with ebb and flow and the Mandelbrot effect)... but all Naim TI DAC implementations I have heard are highly enjoyable and all can very much hold their own... ultimately you are limited/differentiated by the reconstruction techniques and the chosen compromises of the converters.... and as DA reconstruction is ultimately inexact and creating a facsimile of the sound we will all hear and interpret things subconsciously slightly differently...

Hi Simon

I am not sure if what you are saying is the case,possibly,or even probably...about the Hugo's synergy with the 272.Luckily,I also have another good pre-amp here that I use for home theatre,which is a Cary audio Cinema 12.I am going to try using the Core/Hugo as a source into it,now the Cary has a very good separate 2 channel circuit,as well as the multi channel options.I will probably just use my 5 channel amp for this test,I am not sure how well the 250 DR would work running off a non Naim pre.

This is what I ended up doing after moving from 272/XPS/250DR to NDX/XPS/250DR, partly because I don't have the room for a NAC and associated power supplies as well. I compared the Hugo2 into 272/XPS and it was different but not any noticeable step up. Interestingly the NDX into 272/XPS was slightly better but the latter was not really outclassed.

I use a Classe Sigma AV processor for home cinema and just on the off-chance tried routing the NDX and Hugo through it in place of the 272. Again not much difference. However when I moved the XPS onto the NDX then into the Sigma, this was a huge improvement. It really is a special combination along with the 250DR amp. 

The only downside was the need for additional cabling to get the best out of the system (Chord Signature TA DIN-RCA and RCA-XLR).

That is interesting,so let me get this straight...you prefer the sound of the NDX/XPS into a non Naim pre,while still using a 250 DR amp.This is better than NDX/XPS into 272/250?I don't see why you need an NDX and a 272,actually you got me a bit confused now.

I still have lots of experimenting to do myself,but if I can sell off some gear,and get better sound,I am all for it

No quarter posted:

That is interesting,so let me get this straight...you prefer the sound of the NDX/XPS into a non Naim pre,while still using a 250 DR amp.This is better than NDX/XPS into 272/250?I don't see why you need an NDX and a 272,actually you got me a bit confused now.

I still have lots of experimenting to do myself,but if I can sell off some gear,and get better sound,I am all for it

Yes, NDX/XPS-250DR was preferable to 272/XPS-250DR using a non Naim pre with the former. My interest was how much of a step up an NDX and/or Hugo2 was when integrated somehow into my present system. There are far too many permutations to list here so tried to keep things simple by only changing one thing at a time.

There seems to be a really special synergy with the Classe processor and the Naim sources and amps, something I've subsequently learnt from other dealers and owners. I think it helps that the Classe is geared towards 2-channel music so is a very clean and transparent pre compared to other AV brands (Marantz/Anthem etc).

Felty99 posted:
No quarter posted:

That is interesting,so let me get this straight...you prefer the sound of the NDX/XPS into a non Naim pre,while still using a 250 DR amp.This is better than NDX/XPS into 272/250?I don't see why you need an NDX and a 272,actually you got me a bit confused now.

I still have lots of experimenting to do myself,but if I can sell off some gear,and get better sound,I am all for it

Yes, NDX/XPS-250DR was preferable to 272/XPS-250DR using a non Naim pre with the former. My interest was how much of a step up an NDX and/or Hugo2 was when integrated somehow into my present system. There are far too many permutations to list here so tried to keep things simple by only changing one thing at a time.

There seems to be a really special synergy with the Classe processor and the Naim sources and amps, something I've subsequently learnt from other dealers and owners. I think it helps that the Classe is geared towards 2-channel music so is a very clean and transparent pre compared to other AV brands (Marantz/Anthem etc).

i very hardly believe in synergy with non naim preamps, it is the case for me.  But you are in a very classic naim forum here, so not many members will advise you to connect a classe pre with naim amp.   But this synergy is also a bit exceptional,  you must be careful and adapt the adequate cables. 

Felty99 posted:
No quarter posted:

That is interesting,so let me get this straight...you prefer the sound of the NDX/XPS into a non Naim pre,while still using a 250 DR amp.This is better than NDX/XPS into 272/250?I don't see why you need an NDX and a 272,actually you got me a bit confused now.

I still have lots of experimenting to do myself,but if I can sell off some gear,and get better sound,I am all for it

Yes, NDX/XPS-250DR was preferable to 272/XPS-250DR using a non Naim pre with the former. My interest was how much of a step up an NDX and/or Hugo2 was when integrated somehow into my present system. There are far too many permutations to list here so tried to keep things simple by only changing one thing at a time.

There seems to be a really special synergy with the Classe processor and the Naim sources and amps, something I've subsequently learnt from other dealers and owners. I think it helps that the Classe is geared towards 2-channel music so is a very clean and transparent pre compared to other AV brands (Marantz/Anthem etc).

Today I got around to hooking up my Core in SPDIF mode to a Hugo 1(still waiting for H2) into the analog inputs on my Cary Audio cinema 12,using my 5 channel Anthem amp.This combo may sound better than trying to use the Hugo in the all Naim chain,it is still early,so I want to listen for a few days.But initial impressions tell me to leave the Hugo out of the Naim gear/chain,Naim sounds best with Naim only.I am NOT saying this current set up is better than the Core/272/Xps/250...that combo seems to sound the best of all.Adding the Hugo to the all Naim stack seemed to take a little something away from the overall sound/goodness,or PRAT.

No quarter posted:
Felty99 posted:
No quarter posted:

That is interesting,so let me get this straight...you prefer the sound of the NDX/XPS into a non Naim pre,while still using a 250 DR amp.This is better than NDX/XPS into 272/250?I don't see why you need an NDX and a 272,actually you got me a bit confused now.

I still have lots of experimenting to do myself,but if I can sell off some gear,and get better sound,I am all for it

Yes, NDX/XPS-250DR was preferable to 272/XPS-250DR using a non Naim pre with the former. My interest was how much of a step up an NDX and/or Hugo2 was when integrated somehow into my present system. There are far too many permutations to list here so tried to keep things simple by only changing one thing at a time.

There seems to be a really special synergy with the Classe processor and the Naim sources and amps, something I've subsequently learnt from other dealers and owners. I think it helps that the Classe is geared towards 2-channel music so is a very clean and transparent pre compared to other AV brands (Marantz/Anthem etc).

Today I got around to hooking up my Core in SPDIF mode to a Hugo 1(still waiting for H2) into the analog inputs on my Cary Audio cinema 12,using my 5 channel Anthem amp.This combo may sound better than trying to use the Hugo in the all Naim chain,it is still early,so I want to listen for a few days.But initial impressions tell me to leave the Hugo out of the Naim gear/chain,Naim sounds best with Naim only.I am NOT saying this current set up is better than the Core/272/Xps/250...that combo seems to sound the best of all.Adding the Hugo to the all Naim stack seemed to take a little something away from the overall sound/goodness,or PRAT.

all this is a matter of personal preference, rather than better sound quality in absolute terms. Some prefer all naim system, other prefer chord dacs with naim amps, and other prefer even non naim preamp with naim amp( like me).  As for prat, i use an all tube preamp and have not found the prat diminished vs the nac 252 i had before.  

The 272 is a special product, a preamp with a streamer inside. It would be interesting to know if adding hugo with a 282/250/ndx will affect too the prat of the naim partners, as it was the case with 272/250.

French Rooster posted:
No quarter posted:
Felty99 posted:
No quarter posted:

That is interesting,so let me get this straight...you prefer the sound of the NDX/XPS into a non Naim pre,while still using a 250 DR amp.This is better than NDX/XPS into 272/250?I don't see why you need an NDX and a 272,actually you got me a bit confused now.

I still have lots of experimenting to do myself,but if I can sell off some gear,and get better sound,I am all for it

Yes, NDX/XPS-250DR was preferable to 272/XPS-250DR using a non Naim pre with the former. My interest was how much of a step up an NDX and/or Hugo2 was when integrated somehow into my present system. There are far too many permutations to list here so tried to keep things simple by only changing one thing at a time.

There seems to be a really special synergy with the Classe processor and the Naim sources and amps, something I've subsequently learnt from other dealers and owners. I think it helps that the Classe is geared towards 2-channel music so is a very clean and transparent pre compared to other AV brands (Marantz/Anthem etc).

Today I got around to hooking up my Core in SPDIF mode to a Hugo 1(still waiting for H2) into the analog inputs on my Cary Audio cinema 12,using my 5 channel Anthem amp.This combo may sound better than trying to use the Hugo in the all Naim chain,it is still early,so I want to listen for a few days.But initial impressions tell me to leave the Hugo out of the Naim gear/chain,Naim sounds best with Naim only.I am NOT saying this current set up is better than the Core/272/Xps/250...that combo seems to sound the best of all.Adding the Hugo to the all Naim stack seemed to take a little something away from the overall sound/goodness,or PRAT.

all this is a matter of personal preference, rather than better sound quality in absolute terms. Some prefer all naim system, other prefer chord dacs with naim amps, and other prefer even non naim preamp with naim amp( like me).  As for prat, i use an all tube preamp and have not found the prat diminished vs the nac 252 i had before.  

The 272 is a special product, a preamp with a streamer inside. It would be interesting to know if adding hugo with a 282/250/ndx will affect too the prat of the naim partners, as it was the case with 272/250.

I agree about the "personal preference" thing,who is to say which sound is better,more like better suited to YOUR taste.I have quite a few different options to use (active speakers,Naim gear,non-Naim gear),and I like it this way.

French Rooster posted:

all this is a matter of personal preference, rather than better sound quality in absolute terms. Some prefer all naim system, other prefer chord dacs with naim amps, and other prefer even non naim preamp with naim amp( like me).  As for prat, i use an all tube preamp and have not found the prat diminished vs the nac 252 i had before.  

Exactly... I find, and some of my audio buddies have found a real synergy with Chord DACs and Naim amplification, certainly high end amplification... to be honest abstract notions like PRAT etc sort of disappears with it.. it becomes immersive musical enjoyment. If the music has PRAT in it, it will be there to enjoy on playback..

Now I also love my Naim CDX2, I have said many times it's not particularly neutral, but it does accentuate PRAT... on some music this is wonderful, for other music it just doesn't work right.. so I keep it as a source option for those CDs that benefit a bit from the CDX2 sound... like guitar rock and Bob Dylan tracks 

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:
French Rooster posted:

all this is a matter of personal preference, rather than better sound quality in absolute terms. Some prefer all naim system, other prefer chord dacs with naim amps, and other prefer even non naim preamp with naim amp( like me).  

Now I also love my Naim CDX2, I have said many times it's not particularly neutral, but it does accentuate PRAT... on some music this is wonderful, for other music it just doesn't work right.. so I keep it as a source option for those CDs that benefit a bit from the CDX2 sound... like guitar rock and Bob Dylan tracks 

Agree with the above, 

I am keen to experience the pleasure of streaming, maybe an NDX at some point, but I really don't want to give up my cdx2.

The solution is to have both.

Does anyone use an NDX bare? Or Cdx2 bare? Or do they both require an XPSdr to really make them sing?

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