Chord DACs

analogmusic posted:

I was just kidding... it is very expensive

It is a massive FPGA based processor, even much more complicated than the one in Dave, and actually / apparently transforms Dave into something else.... some people say the Dave is really in need of a blu2...... 

This approach has been used by companies like DCS, and also Naim (NDS / XPS to NDS/ PS555DR)

OK, I've gone and looked up th Blu2 and I think I understand.

so we can expect Poly's big brother to be sort of Poly grafted in place of the Blu2's CD drive. Interesting, but sadly a lottery requiremen! So my interest remains in whether Poly itself is any good as a renderer -  I am wondering about whether, if it truly is good, Poly could be used with Dave (see the Portable Audio, or lack of ? thread).

Innocent Bystander posted:
analogmusic posted:

I was just kidding... it is very expensive

It is a massive FPGA based processor, even much more complicated than the one in Dave, and actually / apparently transforms Dave into something else.... some people say the Dave is really in need of a blu2...... 

This approach has been used by companies like DCS, and also Naim (NDS / XPS to NDS/ PS555DR)

OK, I've gone and looked up th Blu2 and I think I understand.

so we can expect Poly's big brother to be sort of Poly grafted in place of the Blu2's CD drive. Interesting, but sadly a lottery requiremen! So my interest remains in whether Poly itself is any good as a renderer -  I am wondering about whether, if it truly is good, Poly could be used with Dave (see the Portable Audio, or lack of ? thread).

I'm pretty sure I read on the huge Poly thread on head-fi that the Poly is locked to the Mojo. But of course there's nothing stopping Chord coming up with a similar, or possibly even fancier, product for the Dave/Hugo. Possibly with the M Scaler upsampling magic from the Blu2, but minus the cd transport. They have a lot of software to get right with the Poly .. I suspect there will teething troubles.

Halloween Man posted:

Thanks nq, how far from back and side walls do you have the 40s?

48 inches from the front wall to the tweeter,and 32 inches from the side wall to the tweeter.The speakers are 88 inches apart,and the room is 15 1/2 feet wide and 17 feet deep.

The blu2 is also supposed to work/connect  with the Hugo 2,another reason I want the H2...could be a stepping stone to Dave/blu2.

likesmusic posted:
Innocent Bystander posted:
analogmusic posted:

I was just kidding... it is very expensive

It is a massive FPGA based processor, even much more complicated than the one in Dave, and actually / apparently transforms Dave into something else.... some people say the Dave is really in need of a blu2...... 

This approach has been used by companies like DCS, and also Naim (NDS / XPS to NDS/ PS555DR)

OK, I've gone and looked up th Blu2 and I think I understand.

so we can expect Poly's big brother to be sort of Poly grafted in place of the Blu2's CD drive. Interesting, but sadly a lottery requiremen! So my interest remains in whether Poly itself is any good as a renderer -  I am wondering about whether, if it truly is good, Poly could be used with Dave (see the Portable Audio, or lack of ? thread).

I'm pretty sure I read on the huge Poly thread on head-fi that the Poly is locked to the Mojo. But of course there's nothing stopping Chord coming up with a similar, or possibly even fancier, product for the Dave/Hugo. Possibly with the M Scaler upsampling magic from the Blu2, but minus the cd transport. They have a lot of software to get right with the Poly .. I suspect there will teething troubles.

A few months ago I wondered whether it is possible to play Poly through Dave, so I asked Chord, and indeed the response was no, it was dedicated to Mojo. However all it would need is a cable from its micro-USB output, and, if used for more than just the occasional few hours, some arrangement for more convenient recharging than recharging plugging into Mojo and the latter's charger, so not beyond possibility. (The reply was from Chord's marketing people, and of course they may have plans for a non-portable version with a bigger profit margin, now i think probably linked with the retechnology of Blu2.

My interest in Poly would be a definite if its sound quality is as good or better than my present streaming source (Audirvana on Mac Mini), especially if its library handling is better than Audiv: My portable music playing is so infrequent as to not justify the cost of Poly, however, if it's sound quality and usability make it a realistic prospect for using as the source at home, it would have the added bonus that if I got myself a Mojo I could just grab Poly and  go when I want to be mobile, giving idebtical control travelling as when atbhome. But the big unknown at present is its sound quality - expectation and reality are not always the same...

At present the highest capacity micro-SD card of which I am aware is 400GB, so if I wanted all my music collection I'd need maybe 3 cards, perhaps splitting by genre - a bit of a hassle at home, though not really when travelling, however I imagine in due course they'll reach 1GB, when all my music would fit, and even if my collection ever exceeds it I'm sure I could find a split that minimises any inconvenience.

incidentally, for anyone interested, as of yesterday there is now a Mojo/poly thread which may be the better place for such discusions.

OK, found he relevant statement from John Franks on head-fi:

”No Poly's USB port specifically looks for a Mojo USB and interrogates it to determine its on or off state so Poly only works with a Mojo. However we have a larger unit designed to go with Hugo2 that will be launched early next year.”

So Poly + DAVE = no no. But the Hugo variant, which is to be called the 2Go, might work with the Dave, then again... if they can put the same innards in an absurdly over engineered case to match the DAVE and take more money off us DAVE owners they may well do!

analogmusic posted:
 DAVINA - finally should bring us much closer to experiencing digital music really sounds like "studio masters".

It should put Chord firmly on the map for the next 20 years or so, as competitors try to figure out how Rob Watts did it. 

Chord DAC’s won’t get you closer to the original master tape, quite the opposite. They are actually extremely powerful and accurate digital synthesizers. They utilise/process information stored in memory to create the output.

I use a Mojo. With sparse instrumentation and vocals it sound superb, presumably the processor is able to cope with a small number of instruments. Combine a large number of instruments with complex rhythms, it seems to fall down, presumably the processor/memory simply isn’t able to cope.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

??????

Rob Watts: OK, the interpolation filter’s job in a DAC is to re- create the missing parts of the original analogue signal - the signal in between one sample and the next. This is done with an FIR filter. In a simple way, a FIR filter consists of a data memory (this stores previous data samples) and a coefficient memory (this is a fixed memory with all of the coefficients that the filter algorithm has created).

?????

fatcat posted:
analogmusic posted:
 DAVINA - finally should bring us much closer to experiencing digital music really sounds like "studio masters".

It should put Chord firmly on the map for the next 20 years or so, as competitors try to figure out how Rob Watts did it. 

Chord DAC’s won’t get you closer to the original master tape, quite the opposite. They are actually extremely powerful and accurate digital synthesizers. They utilise/process information stored in memory to create the output.

I use a Mojo. With sparse instrumentation and vocals it sound superb, presumably the processor is able to cope with a small number of instruments. Combine a large number of instruments with complex rhythms, it seems to fall down, presumably the processor/memory simply isn’t able to cope.

No idea about Mojo as I've never heard it. To my ears, and others' I know who have heard it , Hugo(1) is very natural ('analogue') sounding compared to, say, DAC in ND5XS. Dave is simply Wow', naturalness with amazing clarity, and improved 3D soundstaging. I've no idea if this fits with your first paragraph as I don't have access to the original mastertape for anything (and anyway I suspect that the final mastered version is often itself is not always the same as the original mastertape.

I would definitely agree that the Hugo sounds very natural indeed and yes sort of "analogue"

I wonder if anyone can help in my use of the Hugo?

I am currently using it with the volume control (set at turquoise as suggested) but am I right in saying you can bypass the volume?  and if so does anyone know the output level ?  If it's 3v, the same as 2Qute, then that will be too high for my amps

And how do most power the Hugo?  I am currently charging it and then unplugging it from mains to use, then plugging back in to re-charge.  I am also switching the Hugo off when it's not being used but that's quite a pain as it doesn't 'remember' the settings for input/volume

fatcat posted:
Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

??????

Rob Watts: OK, the interpolation filter’s job in a DAC is to re- create the missing parts of the original analogue signal - the signal in between one sample and the next. This is done with an FIR filter. In a simple way, a FIR filter consists of a data memory (this stores previous data samples) and a coefficient memory (this is a fixed memory with all of the coefficients that the filter algorithm has created).

?????

An FIR filter is a method that transforms the response of a series of sample values into a series of imaginary infinitely narrow points of time samples... this is required mathematically to reconstruct the original analogue continuous signal from a sampled series... of course this can be never absolutely accurate as you can’t have infinitely narrow points in time, hence the differing effectiveness of FIR or IIR filters used in DACs..( and the FPGA processor allows a pretty accurate FIR reconstruction filter in the Hugo with minimal electrical and mathematical noise side effects). However to be clear no data can be reconstructed if it’s not encoded in the original sampled sequence, that would break the laws of entropy and the sample theorem... effectively one would would be creating substance from thin air .... great for science fiction, but alas not for us.

Nina posted:

I would definitely agree that the Hugo sounds very natural indeed and yes sort of "analogue"

I wonder if anyone can help in my use of the Hugo?

I am currently using it with the volume control (set at turquoise as suggested) but am I right in saying you can bypass the volume?  and if so does anyone know the output level ?  If it's 3v, the same as 2Qute, then that will be too high for my amps

And how do most power the Hugo?  I am currently charging it and then unplugging it from mains to use, then plugging back in to re-charge.  I am also switching the Hugo off when it's not being used but that's quite a pain as it doesn't 'remember' the settings for input/volume

My recellection is there is no benefit in disabling the volume control (setting to 'line level' IIRC), so best leave as it come - it remembers your setting when you turn off. 

And there is no detriment to sound quality from Hugo leaving the power supply on and connected, so that is how I used it, and again IIRC that is quite a common approach. (Of course, different if you find the power supply causes interference with something else via the mains, though I don't recall anyone reporting that.)

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:
fatcat posted:
Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

??????

Rob Watts: OK, the interpolation filter’s job in a DAC is to re- create the missing parts of the original analogue signal - the signal in between one sample and the next. This is done with an FIR filter. In a simple way, a FIR filter consists of a data memory (this stores previous data samples) and a coefficient memory (this is a fixed memory with all of the coefficients that the filter algorithm has created).

?????

However to be clear no data can be reconstructed if it’s not encoded in the original sampled sequence, that would break the laws of entropy and the sample theorem... effectively one would would be creating substance from thin air .... great for science fiction, but alas not for us.

Are the value of the coefficients ( created by the filter algorithm), derived from the original sampled sequence.

Innocent Bystander posted:

My recellection is there is no benefit in disabling the volume control (setting to 'line level' IIRC), so best leave as it come - it remembers your setting when you turn off. 

And there is no detriment to sound quality from Hugo leaving the power supply on and connected, so that is how I used it, and again IIRC that is quite a common approach. (Of course, different if you find the power supply causes interference with something else via the mains, though I don't recall anyone reporting that.)

Thanks IB

However my Hugo doesn't seem to remember my settings when I switch it off

Nina posted:
Innocent Bystander posted:

My recellection is there is no benefit in disabling the volume control (setting to 'line level' IIRC), so best leave as it come - it remembers your setting when you turn off. 

And there is no detriment to sound quality from Hugo leaving the power supply on and connected, so that is how I used it, and again IIRC that is quite a common approach. (Of course, different if you find the power supply causes interference with something else via the mains, though I don't recall anyone reporting that.)

Thanks IB

However my Hugo doesn't seem to remember my settings when I switch it off

Hmmm, I thought itbdid, but switched off very rarely, so my apologies for mis-remembering. With the 'line' output setting, I think the level is still indicated by the colour, just not adjustable. But for the actual level you'll have to search through the specs or contact Chord.

That is what I did, and I believe that's what a lot of others  do (especially on this forum being in the habit from Naim gear), but periodically turn off and let discharge.

However early in this thread @Simon-in-Suffolk, who had had his Hugo repaired due to IIRC a battery fault, said something about advice having changed - it would be as well to check with him.

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