Chord Music and Sarum T Hybrid

 

analogmusic posted:

I have not heard Chord music, but a friend whose ears I trust did. He did like it.

Maybe it outperforms SL, maybe not, can't say until I hear it for myself.

No, I do not indicate any preference for a non-naim cable at all.

To be clear to my ears, Naim cables (the standard interconnect, Hi-Line, NACA5 and SL) sound the best to me for that rhythmic Naim sound compared to all the other alternatives I have tried..... 

 

 

analogmusic posted:

I have not heard Chord music, but a friend whose ears I trust did. He did like it.

Maybe it outperforms SL, maybe not, can't say until I hear it for myself.

No, I do not indicate any preference for a non-naim cable at all. I try alternative cables sometimes, but always keep coming  back to Naim ones.

To be clear to my ears, Naim cables (the standard interconnect, Hi-Line, NACA5 and SL) sound the best to me for that rhythmic Naim sound compared to all the other alternatives I have tried..... 

 

 

So why are you using Vertere? We know that you’ve repeatedly suggested it’s virtually SL but how could Vertere possibly out-do or outsmart Naim’s own engineers?

there is a certain sound which I can hear clearly on Superlumina, Hi Line and Standard interconnect.

Rhythms are very clear to hear, with a "leading edge"  and tremendous grip on the notes.

I can't hear this Rhythmic emphasis on Chord cables or even Vertere ones (but vertere is very much closer to the Naim sound). Vertere has a different sound, which I suppose is much closer to "live music".

Bass is also one very important area which I can hear Naim pays attention to in their cables. It just sounds "right" to me.

This is a decription of the old Chord Chrysalis which I found, (I have one and agree with that description)

"The design of Chrysalis cable produces a slight attenuation of treble and a slight roll-off of low bass. This causes the mid-range to be pushed forward and this emphasises the rhythm and coherence of music. "

Now this Chord Chrysalis is not a neutral cable, and that is exactly where Vertere sound more live, realistic, and faster also at the same time.

 

analogmusic posted:

it won't till you hear it for yourself HH. There is no extra leading edge emphasis on a vertere cable.

Their design philosophy is not to change the sound in any way. the best cables don't change the sound, they just get out of the way, which I can hear vertere doing very well.

Ah, but how can you hear what isn’t there?

Hungryhalibut posted:
analogmusic posted:

it won't till you hear it for yourself HH. There is no extra leading edge emphasis on a vertere cable.

Their design philosophy is not to change the sound in any way. the best cables don't change the sound, they just get out of the way, which I can hear vertere doing very well.

Ah, but how can you hear what isn’t there?

by comparison with other cables. I now have Chord Chrysalis, Vertere, Naim, Chord Clearway Aray cables, and heard SL extensively.

Anyway you have the SL full loom, so obviously you must like what it does (or doesn't do, in the case of hi-end cables) since you bought it, twice !

For the Naim sound, just use Naim cables, that's my finding. That's where music is most engaging, and most enjoyable.

Simple.... No need to second guess Naim, and what I can hear is Naim really know and understand the Naim intended sound best.

Not Chord, not anyone else. Even the Chrysalis was designed with the help of Naim. 

joerand posted:
analogmusic posted:

 well it is much closer to the Naim sound

AM, since you so often refer to 'the Naim sound' here can you describe exactly what that means to you? Possibly in terms beyond preservation of PRaT.

Analogue Music.......you’ve still not answered the above question which isn’t about cables but what you call “the Naim sound”

northpole posted:

In some ways I admire Analogmusic's best endeavours to dig himself out of a bit of a hole and I think I'll back off whilst there is still an element of good humour in the thread!

Peter

Yep, or else someone might ask if a Chord Dave is more Naim-sounding than a Naim DAC or NDS, or if Dynaudio speakers sound more Naim than Naim...  

Hi Dave J,

even though I got a Chord Dave, I'm not posting on the internet that the Dave makes NDS sound "Pallid" or that Dave is far far ahead of a Naim source. (which is how you describe Chord Sarum cables next to Superlumina)

Dave is different, and I may came back to a Naim source someday and may well buy some naim speakers too.

Whether it is better than NDS, well that is very subjective.... some people make like it or not.

I recall reading somewhere that you thought the Chord Sarum cables made digital music enjoyable again... But in my view that's not the job of a cable, it's the job of a source to be engaging enough to listen to.

The very best cables are the honest ones, that simply get out of the way and tell you if a source is harsh sounding  

 

 

Dave J posted:
northpole posted:

In some ways I admire Analogmusic's best endeavours to dig himself out of a bit of a hole and I think I'll back off whilst there is still an element of good humour in the thread!

Peter

Yep, or else someone might ask if a Chord Dave is more Naim-sounding than a Naim DAC or NDS, or if Dynaudio speakers sound more Naim than Naim...  

Maybe it is a matter of how strong a 'Naim sound' one wants? The discussion appears to suggest that SL gives more [added to or enhanhing any 'Naim sound' in the system], but to AM that is too much so he prefers Vertere.

As for a the elusive description of the 'Naim sound', there was a thread on that topic a few months ago on the forum ("the evolving naim sound" thread), in which I tried to get to understand it - but it didn't result in anywhere near a conclusive description: other than PRaT, there appeared to be an indication that the sound is not neutral, but emphasised some parts of the music in some way, maybe  to give a  'forward' sound. If people want to continue discussion of this perhaps it would be worth asking Richard to reopen that thread?

analogmusic posted:

Hi Dave J,

even though I got a Chord Dave, I'm not posting on the internet that the Dave makes NDS sound "Pallid" or that Dave is far far ahead of a Naim source. (which is how you describe Chord Sarum cables next to Superlumina)

Dave is different, and I may came back to a Naim source someday and may well buy some naim speakers too.

Whether it is better than NDS, well that is very subjective.... some people make like it or not.

I recall reading somewhere that you thought the Chord Sarum cables made digital music enjoyable again... But in my view that's not the job of a cable, it's the job of a source to be engaging enough to listen to.

The very best cables are the honest ones, that simply get out of the way and tell you if a source is harsh sounding  

 

 

Just a little leg pulling 

Yes, I think what I said was that, with Sarum in place, digital playback was delivering what I'd always hoped - and it claimed - it would. Up until that point I had always much preferred analogue. I wasn't using a KDS at that time, it was a Naim DAC and what I discovered was just how damn good the Naim DAC sounded, it had been almost emasculated before. Had I simply gone on to replace the DAC with something "better" without experiencing the Sarum impact, I might never have found peace with digital.  It's gratifying then that its impact on vinyl replay has been equally profound.

You're quite right, the best cables are the honest ones, the ones that get out of the way but some are a heck of a lot more honest than others and while ChordMusic gets out of the way like nothing else I've heard, Sarum T talks the same language.

As I mentioned before, I genuinely think you may have an issue with system set up if the Sarum you heard seemed aggressive (I do appreciate that you have yet to hear either T or Music). I think its more likely that it was revealing an issue that is masked by other cables that don't get out of the way quite so well.

Glad you are taking it in good spirit, much appreciated 

I am still very curious and will listen to Sarum T and ChordMusic when I get the chance. 

In the end it's good fun trying all these cables out and see how they change the sound.....

Also eye opening when trying these cables on non-naim systems and finding out just how much the cable has an influence over the final sound, quite amazing !

Which cable made the NDAC sound emasculated though   Hope it wasn't the lavender or the Hi-line???

 

Having previously run a 100% Naim system (barring speakers) on my digital side and as far as you can get on the vinyl side (barring an Aro), I was surprised to find, after switching to a quality non-Naim integrated, how much inserting a pair of S-400s seemed to fully restore Naim's sonic signature. The Naim sound for me being: 1) tight, accurate, solid, and tuneful bass; 2) clear, forward mids bordering on overly aggressive; 3) softly rolled-off highs; 4) a shallow but wide soundstage without much height; 5) highly musical and engaging with high-caliber recordings, but unforgiving and harsh with the lesser stuff; 6) the unforgiving factor (resolution?) magnified as I moved up the chain. Granted, you do gain inky blackness as you go higher.

Cables are tweaks. I've found cheaper ones that work for me with an open mind for the musicality and tonal balance factors. It comes down to cost/benefit versus time, and how you value your time spent exploring alternatives. In the end, expensive cables are legitimate choices if they satisfy you and feel you can afford them.

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