Chord Sarum T

i compared SL to Chord Sarum Aray IC in an all Naim system and had a clear preference of the SL. This was in the days before the Super Aray. The Chord gave what I called a rather beautiful presentation but lacked a little excitement and the SL was more incisive and gave a more engaging listening experience. 

It might be that all-Naim effect that has been suggested. Who knows.

The high level of resolution produced by a 552/500 system can really show a cable's "personality". At this level, the room also imparts significant influence in how the overall presentation is perceived . Chris preferred the SL by "a wide margin"- there you go, SL works best in his room. All of these cables are expensive and warrant a home demo..you may find that in your system the SL sounds rolled off and dull compared to the Chord. One thing is for sure though, there are cables available to improve on standard Naim offerings - choice and options are a good thing .

ATB,

Mark

 

The Tuned Array technology was invented to solve reflections going back and forth in digital coax RCA cables. And it is audible in analog cables too, I hear this and the Sarum does clean up the sound, particularly the starting and ending of notes. All Chord cables are primarily about maintaining Pace Rhythm and Timing, that is where the musical magic lies. Sound familiar? It's important to note that Chord started by making RCA to DIN cables for Naim, and Naim helped design the very first Chord Chrysalis. This is on the Chord Website.

The SL cables, do seem to have some relationship with Vertere, and well vertere is all about 2 things mainly : the preservation of musical energy (sound familiar?) and also about doing the least possible damage to the signal, not trying to change or modify it in the process. According to Vertere (and Chord) the best cable is the measured not in terms of what it does (that is the job of the source), but in terms of what a cable "does not do"

I appreciate a lot that the Chord Made the Sarum T more price accessible, previously one had to buy the Chord Music, so there is trickle down (as Chord did with Tuned Aray all the way down to 100 GBP/meter), but it would be nice if Naim trickled down some of the SL technology to make it more price accessible.

One has the Hi-line, but what about Din-XLR and speaker cables?

Chris Bell posted:

Good point Mark.  There are so many variables which shape the sound.  The SL worked great in my room... it could sound completely different in another space.  

The first point was also a dandy, especially to those who have decided to address the weakest link within their Systems, with something less than a 552!

Let's not forget, the Birth of the SL technologies were designed to Complement the STATEMENT! 

As I recall, the 500 Club was rocking well with Standard Naim ICs & Nac A5 before the Statement.

So yes Mark, good point:

[The high level of resolution produced by a 552/500 system can really show a cable's "personality".]

Going out on a limb here, I doubt that little wire incorporated within Naim Amps, which allowed Nac A5 to work fine, wasn't incorporated in The Statement Mono Blocks.

Hence, SL Speaker Cable, to Complete the Loom.

Good point Mark!

S1 ~ 90K USD no PS needed

552 ~ 30K - including PS

252 ~ 14K - including PS

282 ~ 12K - including SCDR

The weakest Link ~ the IC

Lost or Contamination of Source Signal.

Allante93!

 

 

 

Allante... you make a good point.  Super Lumina was created for Statement, electronics with a noise floor substantially lower than any other current Naim amp.   While my NAP500DR has the same 009 transistors, it's not in the same league. As a consequence the SL cable will show off any flaw in the system setup. I've spent hours weaving cables so they don't touch and using foam blocks to decouple cables from the floor.  Perhaps the actions of a crazy person, but the 552 is so sensitive I can hear the difference.  It's all about the setup... at this level every detail is critical.  

analogmusic posted:

.................The SL cables, do seem to have some relationship with Vertere, and well vertere is all about 2 things mainly : the preservation of musical energy (sound familiar?) and also about doing the least possible damage to the signal, not trying to change or modify it in the process. According to Vertere (and Chord) the best cable is the measured not in terms of what it does (that is the job of the source), but in terms of what a cable "does not do"

I appreciate a lot that the Chord Made the Sarum T more price accessible, previously one had to buy the Chord Music, so there is trickle down (as Chord did with Tuned Aray all the way down to 100 GBP/meter), but it would be nice if Naim trickled down some of the SL technology to make it more price accessible.

One has the Hi-line, but what about Din-XLR and speaker cables?

Makes sense to me, but I just read up on this Guy a couple of weeks ago, I like him.

I call him the weakest link Guy!

I don't have the hands on experience that you have analog, but I agree with you 100%.

However, Let's not for get, Focal/Naim is about Streamlining, 

Posted by HH:

"But it now means that Naim no longer make speakers, don't make arms, have ditched their best CD players, and now no longer make separate tuners. How times change. It makes me quite wistful. "

That's right, 152, 155, 172, and the XP5XS all killed off!

Is that a bad thing?

Not necessarily so, just sign of the times, a Prince Thing!

So, I doubt we will see Naim adding anything, in Fact, there hands are full this very moment.

New dac Format, Nova, etc... What ever it's called.

So perhaps it's a good thing, at least we have our Marque Separates, for now!

Allante93!

kevin J Carden posted:
tonym posted:

Based on folks' experiences with SL vs. Chord Sarum, it did seem to me that those with a more positive experience with SL were using it in a completely Naim system and those of us with kit from other manufacturers in the chain tended to prefer Chord. For my part, a (run in) SL phono to DIN interconnect came a very poor second best to a Chord Super Sarum. It would be interesting to learn if others have formed the same view.

There might be something in that observation Tony. I also notice that a lot of Chord users are also LP12 devotees. When I tried SSA IC I thought there was much 'LP12ness' to the sonic presentation and made digital sources sound more analogue and very ordered, whilst SL could sometimes get a bit raucous. In many ways I prefered the SSA, BUT I just found that come the end of every track I tried I simply hadn't got the same emotional shot that I got from SL.

My experience chimes well with Chris Bell's description: 

"Bottom line is I prefered the sound of the Naim SL by a wide margin. It was dynamic, explosive, had better resolution and offered the most engaging experience. The Chord ST was very good and I would describe the sound as smooth and even tempered.  "

However, I should add that at the time of my SSA/SL shootout my system was 52/500(nonDR) and I wondered then if 552 in particular would alter my view. I now have 552DR and 500DR and before I go any further along the SL route ( I only have the IC so far) I will borrow the ST at some point to re-compare. 

kevin J Carden posted:
kevin J Carden posted:
tonym posted:

Based on folks' experiences with SL vs. Chord Sarum, it did seem to me that those with a more positive experience with SL were using it in a completely Naim system and those of us with kit from other manufacturers in the chain tended to prefer Chord. For my part, a (run in) SL phono to DIN interconnect came a very poor second best to a Chord Super Sarum. It would be interesting to learn if others have formed the same view.

There might be something in that observation Tony. I also notice that a lot of Chord users are also LP12 devotees. When I tried SSA IC I thought there was much 'LP12ness' to the sonic presentation and made digital sources sound more analogue and very ordered, whilst SL could sometimes get a bit raucous. In many ways I prefered the SSA, BUT I just found that come the end of every track I tried I simply hadn't got the same emotional shot that I got from SL.

My experience chimes well with Chris Bell's description: 

"Bottom line is I prefered the sound of the Naim SL by a wide margin. It was dynamic, explosive, had better resolution and offered the most engaging experience. The Chord ST was very good and I would describe the sound as smooth and even tempered.  "

However, I should add that at the time of my SSA/SL shootout my system was 52/500(nonDR) and I wondered then if 552 in particular would alter my view. I now have 552DR and 500DR and before I go any further along the SL route ( I only have the IC so far) I will borrow the ST at some point to re-compare. 

I look forward to your views on this as I have heard the Sarum T (and Music) at demos and I suspect they are a bit special.

nigelb posted:
kevin J Carden posted:
kevin J Carden posted:
tonym posted:

Based on folks' experiences with SL vs. Chord Sarum, it did seem to me that those with a more positive experience with SL were using it in a completely Naim system and those of us with kit from other manufacturers in the chain tended to prefer Chord. For my part, a (run in) SL phono to DIN interconnect came a very poor second best to a Chord Super Sarum. It would be interesting to learn if others have formed the same view.

There might be something in that observation Tony. I also notice that a lot of Chord users are also LP12 devotees. When I tried SSA IC I thought there was much 'LP12ness' to the sonic presentation and made digital sources sound more analogue and very ordered, whilst SL could sometimes get a bit raucous. In many ways I prefered the SSA, BUT I just found that come the end of every track I tried I simply hadn't got the same emotional shot that I got from SL.

My experience chimes well with Chris Bell's description: 

"Bottom line is I prefered the sound of the Naim SL by a wide margin. It was dynamic, explosive, had better resolution and offered the most engaging experience. The Chord ST was very good and I would describe the sound as smooth and even tempered.  "

However, I should add that at the time of my SSA/SL shootout my system was 52/500(nonDR) and I wondered then if 552 in particular would alter my view. I now have 552DR and 500DR and before I go any further along the SL route ( I only have the IC so far) I will borrow the ST at some point to re-compare. 

I look forward to your views on this as I have heard the Sarum T (and Music) at demos and I suspect they are a bit special.

I have heard Chord Music at a dealer but not Chord Sarum T. How much difference in sound quality would you say there is betweeb the two? 

musicfan51 posted:
nigelb posted:
kevin J Carden posted:
kevin J Carden posted:
tonym posted:

Based on folks' experiences with SL vs. Chord Sarum, it did seem to me that those with a more positive experience with SL were using it in a completely Naim system and those of us with kit from other manufacturers in the chain tended to prefer Chord. For my part, a (run in) SL phono to DIN interconnect came a very poor second best to a Chord Super Sarum. It would be interesting to learn if others have formed the same view.

There might be something in that observation Tony. I also notice that a lot of Chord users are also LP12 devotees. When I tried SSA IC I thought there was much 'LP12ness' to the sonic presentation and made digital sources sound more analogue and very ordered, whilst SL could sometimes get a bit raucous. In many ways I prefered the SSA, BUT I just found that come the end of every track I tried I simply hadn't got the same emotional shot that I got from SL.

My experience chimes well with Chris Bell's description: 

"Bottom line is I prefered the sound of the Naim SL by a wide margin. It was dynamic, explosive, had better resolution and offered the most engaging experience. The Chord ST was very good and I would describe the sound as smooth and even tempered.  "

However, I should add that at the time of my SSA/SL shootout my system was 52/500(nonDR) and I wondered then if 552 in particular would alter my view. I now have 552DR and 500DR and before I go any further along the SL route ( I only have the IC so far) I will borrow the ST at some point to re-compare. 

I look forward to your views on this as I have heard the Sarum T (and Music) at demos and I suspect they are a bit special.

I have heard Chord Music at a dealer but not Chord Sarum T. How much difference in sound quality would you say there is betweeb the two? 

I heard the Music and Sarum T a year apart at the Bristol Show and they were different cables (one was a digital cable and the other was speaker cable) so impossible to make comparisons. Chord however clearly demonstrated their superiority by comparisons with their cables further down the tree. Both the T and the Music were significant steps up in SQ at each demo.

nigelb posted:
kevin J Carden posted:
kevin J Carden posted:
tonym posted:

Based on folks' experiences with SL vs. Chord Sarum, it did seem to me that those with a more positive experience with SL were using it in a completely Naim system and those of us with kit from other manufacturers in the chain tended to prefer Chord. For my part, a (run in) SL phono to DIN interconnect came a very poor second best to a Chord Super Sarum. It would be interesting to learn if others have formed the same view.

There might be something in that observation Tony. I also notice that a lot of Chord users are also LP12 devotees. When I tried SSA IC I thought there was much 'LP12ness' to the sonic presentation and made digital sources sound more analogue and very ordered, whilst SL could sometimes get a bit raucous. In many ways I prefered the SSA, BUT I just found that come the end of every track I tried I simply hadn't got the same emotional shot that I got from SL.

My experience chimes well with Chris Bell's description: 

"Bottom line is I prefered the sound of the Naim SL by a wide margin. It was dynamic, explosive, had better resolution and offered the most engaging experience. The Chord ST was very good and I would describe the sound as smooth and even tempered.  "

However, I should add that at the time of my SSA/SL shootout my system was 52/500(nonDR) and I wondered then if 552 in particular would alter my view. I now have 552DR and 500DR and before I go any further along the SL route ( I only have the IC so far) I will borrow the ST at some point to re-compare. 

I look forward to your views on this as I have heard the Sarum T (and Music) at demos and I suspect they are a bit special.

Sadly Nigel, it may not be very soon. I've already pushed my luck with spending as it is 

kevin J Carden posted:
nigelb posted:
kevin J Carden posted:
kevin J Carden posted:
tonym posted:

Based on folks' experiences with SL vs. Chord Sarum, it did seem to me that those with a more positive experience with SL were using it in a completely Naim system and those of us with kit from other manufacturers in the chain tended to prefer Chord. For my part, a (run in) SL phono to DIN interconnect came a very poor second best to a Chord Super Sarum. It would be interesting to learn if others have formed the same view.

There might be something in that observation Tony. I also notice that a lot of Chord users are also LP12 devotees. When I tried SSA IC I thought there was much 'LP12ness' to the sonic presentation and made digital sources sound more analogue and very ordered, whilst SL could sometimes get a bit raucous. In many ways I prefered the SSA, BUT I just found that come the end of every track I tried I simply hadn't got the same emotional shot that I got from SL.

My experience chimes well with Chris Bell's description: 

"Bottom line is I prefered the sound of the Naim SL by a wide margin. It was dynamic, explosive, had better resolution and offered the most engaging experience. The Chord ST was very good and I would describe the sound as smooth and even tempered.  "

However, I should add that at the time of my SSA/SL shootout my system was 52/500(nonDR) and I wondered then if 552 in particular would alter my view. I now have 552DR and 500DR and before I go any further along the SL route ( I only have the IC so far) I will borrow the ST at some point to re-compare. 

I look forward to your views on this as I have heard the Sarum T (and Music) at demos and I suspect they are a bit special.

Sadly Nigel, it may not be very soon. I've already pushed my luck with spending as it is 

Sadly Kevin, I know the feeling!

analogmusic posted:

is it factual that Sarum cables need 600 hours of running in time?

if running in 24/7 that is still 25 days of non-stop?

glevethan posted:

Nonsense - debunked a while ago

** I have had Sarum TA, Super Sarum, and now Music

 

Well, a little experience here, never bought brand new Naim, but did pickup a demo 5 year warranty open box 250.2 [ 2015 ].

Perfect timing, the DR amps were hitting the Market.

I figured cold, wires etc... Should run in in a couple of days. About a week, didn't sound bad, I figured it was broke in.

Then about 2 months or so, can't really pin point it, I noticed a change. The simplest way I can describe it, a lower noise FLOOR, and the pure flow rate of Music was effortless, smoother, well I tried!!!

Point being, I have heard members say break in periods can last for up to 6 months, or an year!

So when I do get to that point, and ready to fork out thousands on ICs & Speaker Cables, 2 weeks, or a month, it's all good!

At the price of (Taylon Music), I would probably be noticing changes up to Ten Years! LOL.....

Allante93!

 

 

All cables improve after some run-in.... A search will yield many discussing the long, arduous run in of the SL cables before they really shine. Imo, you should get a good idea of what the cable "will do " right out of the box and run in simply improves on this.

ATB,

Mark

analogmusic posted:
glevethan posted:

Nonsense - debunked a while ago

** I have had Sarum TA, Super Sarum, and now Music

 

so how long does it take to run in?

I guess this is a bit like 282 vs 252 unresolved debate on Naim forum.

lot of strong support for SL , and lots of support for Sarum....

 

 

My Chord Sarum Super Aray took about 600 hours to be fully realized ! Had some some ups and downs and finally settled in.  The dealer that sells Chord locally said Taylon in Chord Music (I assume also Sarum T) does not have the ups and downs like Super Aray does!  The swings in sound can be large in the beginning on SA. The new Chord Music he has on display sounded great from get go but did improve the longer he played it!  He did not tell me how many hours to get complete burn in.  

varyat posted:

All cables improve after some run-in.... A search will yield many discussing the long, arduous run in of the SL cables before they really shine. Imo, you should get a good idea of what the cable "will do " right out of the box and run in simply improves on this.

ATB,

Mark

Yep. My Sarum/SuperSarums sounded great straight out of the box & improved over a couple of weeks or so. 

Just got back from Gary Shaw's, having taken a solitary Sarum T cable (he does already have a Super Sarum interconnect, DIN-XLR and speaker cables). I've been testing it for a week, fresh out of the box, and can say that Taylon does indeed soften the burn in blow.

I believe Gary was a little shocked.

Just a reminder to members that discussion of 3rd party "SNAIC" substitutes is not allowed as these constitute an unauthorised modification to Naim equipment - their use may result in damage to Naim equipment, which may be considered as "abuse" under the terms of Naim's warranty conditions.

glevethan posted:

Sorry however I went from Super Sarum straight to Music.  I have never heard "T".

I am also curious in a comparison as Music speaker cable may be a bit pricey for me.  Curious to know if I could "slum" it with plain old vanilla "T"

Best 

Gregg

I am curious in the differences in Chord Sarum T and Chord Music too Gregg. What the build (construction) quality differences are and the sound quality differences are? 

glevethan posted:

Sorry however I went from Super Sarum straight to Music.  I have never heard "T".

I am also curious in a comparison as Music speaker cable may be a bit pricey for me.  Curious to know if I could "slum" it with plain old vanilla "T"

Best 

Gregg

Must be your lucky day, I know just the speaker Cable for you!

Sarum T, only 1800 Pounds!

And Guess What, it contains the secret ingredient, Taylon! LOL...

But on the serious side, I'm in the market for that out  dated Signature Speaker Cable, really looks like it's put together very well!

But I don't have to tell you!

I Bet that Music really hits a Chord!

Allante93!

 

musicfan51 posted:
glevethan posted:

Why against all logic? 

I went from Super Sarum to Music- double jaw dropper

Do you or anybody on this thread done a comparison on Chord Music to Chord Sarum T. ?

what percentage difference do you think Music is over Sarum T. ?  Thanks 

43.43%

Chris Dolan posted:
musicfan51 posted:
glevethan posted:

Why against all logic? 

I went from Super Sarum to Music- double jaw dropper

Do you or anybody on this thread done a comparison on Chord Music to Chord Sarum T. ?

what percentage difference do you think Music is over Sarum T. ?  Thanks 

43.43%

Ha ha ha ha! Not 42% huh!  Yeah I know, the answer that Chord gives me is compare the two models at your dealer. But no dealer near me has both to compare! So there you go! Basically don't ask these questions. If you got the money buy Chord Music if not buy Sarum T. If that is too pricey buy another model. Stupid me asking for questions right! 

Allante93 posted.

But on the serious side, I'm in the market for that out  dated Signature Speaker Cable, really looks like it's put together very well!

But I don't have to tell you!

I Bet that Music really hits a Chord!

Allante93!

 

I can't comment on Signature Tuned Array speaker cable  however I do have one of the interconnects for my headphone system and it is not bad. 

I would say though that the longer you have been in this game you start to realize that it is VERY DIFFICULT to beat NACA5 for sound and VFM.  

Tread lightly- unless you really make a big jump NACA is very difficult to beat.

Chris Dolan posted:

I have a Chord Sarum Super ARAY phono/DIN on my Urika, I am more likely to change to the equivalent ChordMusic than to Sarum T 

Made that jump on both the Urika and Klimax DS

I think Chord may have finally plateaued and we will no longer be seeing  frequent updates as we have during these past few years.

Music, imho, is an end game cable.   After my first demo session with it my comment was that the name was VERY appropriate.  It simply plays MUSIC

glevethan posted:
Chris Dolan posted:

I have a Chord Sarum Super ARAY phono/DIN on my Urika, I am more likely to change to the equivalent ChordMusic than to Sarum T 

Made that jump on both the Urika and Klimax DS

I think Chord may have finally plateaued and we will no longer be seeing  frequent updates as we have during these past few years.

Music, imho, is an end game cable.   After my first demo session with it my comment was that the name was VERY appropriate.  It simply plays MUSIC

Music does seem to be close to the perfect cable! I was sure blown away at the difference ! Trying to figure out how to afford Chord Music is the issue for me! 

 

musicfan51 posted:
glevethan posted:
Chris Dolan posted:

I have a Chord Sarum Super ARAY phono/DIN on my Urika, I am more likely to change to the equivalent ChordMusic than to Sarum T 

Made that jump on both the Urika and Klimax DS

I think Chord may have finally plateaued and we will no longer be seeing  frequent updates as we have during these past few years.

Music, imho, is an end game cable.   After my first demo session with it my comment was that the name was VERY appropriate.  It simply plays MUSIC

Music does seem to be close to the perfect cable! I was sure blown away at the difference ! Trying to figure out how to afford Chord Music is the issue for me! 

 

That's the issue for all of us.  

I need a 5m speaker run!  My kids need to finish their college education.

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