Cisco switch

Hi Chris, i am glad you are finding the LW test useful... it is only relevant if you subscribe to the idea or hear that unwanted RF voltages (RFI) affect resolving audio equipment through loose coupling... as you are probably aware there is direct correlation between voltage, current and near field radio emissions, which is why the test is recommended as a good guide test by the RSGB for identifying electricaly noisy devices, such as poorly filtered and designed electronic devices, SMPS, LED lights, solar panel inverters, flat screen TVs etc etc. What is interesting is the range of really well behaved devices and atrocious devices, so to me it’s all a bit of a lottery... unfortinately there is no consumer marking for this apart from a very crude and for these purposes largely irrelevant EMC compliance marking. I do know a few years back the EU was trying to dumb down or loosen the requirements here which affected some in the UK wanting to tighten this area... I was involved in a pressure group pushing for the latter.

I do understand there is going to be some discussion and narrative elsewhere from this forum on the possibilities and hopeful analysis of why different network switches do affect SQ of some connected digital Hi-Fi equipment... we should keep an eye out ... it should be interesting..

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I do understand there is going to be some discussion and narrative elsewhere from this forum on the possibilities and hopeful analysis of why different network switches do affect SQ of some connected digital Hi-Fi equipment... we should keep an eye out ... it should be interesting..

Very interesting. I look forward to having a read.

Chris (SU), I'm obliged to you for taking the time to post your thoughts: I too am somewhat hesitant about posting my conclusions particularly on the subtle/marginal/imaginary differences we have around switch & other network SQ changes. I'm no coward but I've seen the bruising from both this forum & others in an entirely different field.

Re the LW radio test, I said in my previous post I was not convinced, the test tells me the various items that emit noise & I have no problems at all with that. Most of my house is LED, a few rarely used halogens & the kitchen is compact florescent but not CFL as such, the 10 lamps are powered from a central regulated control dimmer unit. Many/most of my LED's are on dimmers & they change the LW test noise levels much as I expected, that said I was surprised with the low level of LW noise from my LED's & the very low/no noise from the dimmer switches.

My SMPS's associated with the audio is powered via a UPS & this has an internal isolation transformer & C&D mode filter that isolates it to some extent (to/from) main power. Additionally all my SMPS's are heavily loaded with ferrite on the DC side & the ferrite I use is a specific mix for lowest frequency & is as close as is possible to the frequency that SMPS's operate at, so the noise that is present in the DC side is suppressed to some extent on the Cisco switch (& NAS)

What I can't equate is an audible affect on sound. I ran a test a while back when I had all my 'noisy' stuff turned on while I listened in turn to FM radio, web radio, web & NAS streaming. While I was listening I had someone turn off the 'noisy' circuits at the RCB; nothing changed, or at least did not change that I was convinced about, hence why I am not convinced.

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Peder, Hej, I don't agree with your opinion on Linn; To me they've changed their marketing & product premise to reflect evolving market & lifestyles. Dare I suggest Naim have/are doing the same.     I don't agree they don't care about racks, switches & ethernet cables, maybe its because they don't believe they make a difference or at least make a difference worth getting involved with.      I have to say I am impressed with LinnDocs, so much better & user friendly than is the Naim Knowledge offering.  

I do agree your opinion on Lejonklou, & to a lesser extent Selleri. I have a look in them once in a while & note they don't give up on the GS108T.   But both still have some interesting reading.  

I will not by a Cisco 2960 simply because I do not have the space to install it & am not prepared to make any such changes to my system as I am planning a house move & that will include radical changes in the audio system & it will possibly mean I will not require a switch for the audio system.

Hi MIKE-B 🙂

You write,.....◾ Peder, Hej, I don't agree with your opinion on Linn; To me they've changed their marketing & product premise to reflect evolving market & lifestyles.◾ 

I respect that,I shall answer/tell you more about this,....and what I mean later.It take time too explane in english 😉😎.

/Peder 🙂 

Antonio1 posted:

to take a punt : this? Cisco-ws-c2960-24lt-l - Catalyst 2960 24 10/100 (8 Poe) + 2 1000bt LAN base IMA  (cheaper)

or that? Cisco-ws-c2960-8tc-l - Catalyst 2960 8 10/100 + 1 T/SFP LAN BASE

The 24 port versions are big, and they are fan cooled, so may be noisy.

BRYCE CURDY,if it's possible...try to get as new as possible. They are between 2007-2013,often run 24/7 hours in a smaller companys computer room.

Think recapp 😉,than you know what I'm thinking about. I think It's only the power-supply card who maybe sometime need a recapp.....but as new as possible is better.

◾ Here in Sweden we have a very,very good constructor-guy in our forum-group,he had started to make a big Linear power-supply to this Cisco 2960. Just because he can 😉,but it shall be interesting to see if we can hear any differens in SQ......I will report back about that.

Again,hope you understand my swedenglish 😉😎.

/Peder 🙂 

Yes, as Gazza says, changing the settings is not straightforward, so best to ask the seller if they can reset to factory defaults for you.

Some models have PoE, which you may or may not want. Probably best to avoid these, unless you specifically want it. Make sure it's a model that accepts a standard kettle lead - the lead is often not included by many sellers, but easy enough to get hold of one.

Some newer models are white instead of blue, and a bit larger, but these still seem to work well.

Bryce Curdy posted:
Peder posted:

This is the model-number of the Cisco you shall look for......

🔸 Cisco WS-C2960-8TC-L🔸

/Peder 🙂 

Is it better than the other 2960s?

This is the Cisco that Simon in Suffolk recommended to all of us,I have only listen to this one.

If Simon say,go for this one,it's better to do so.....he knows what he's talking about 👍🏻😉.

So,....exakt that modelnumber.

/Peder 🙂 

Gazza posted:

I should have added because I am not a very computer competent person, but factory settings on a Cisco 2960 is really easy as Simon and HH advised.

Well OK, if I can manage it, then it can't be that difficult! Even so, if you have to buy a cable for it, download the driver, figure out what the hell the CLI is and how to use it, etc. then I think it's well worth getting the seller to do it for you, especially if they are an IT professional who can do it easily. 

Managed to order a Cisco WS-C2960-24TC-L (24 port).  Unable to dedicate it to Streamer and NAS, at least initially as I will need to run a second very long CAT6 from my lounge to my garage.  I'm assuming I'll still get most of the benefit.  I'm assuming I should I keep the Hi-Fi Ethernet leads as far away as possible form the other stuff?.

Bit of a networking lay-person here and am wondering if it is possible to get any clarification as to whether there is any benefit to the 10/100/1000 version over the 10/100? The switch I am looking to replace with a Cisco also handles an Apple TV, Xbox, TV, Airport Express.

Bunny Colvin posted:

Bit of a networking lay-person here and am wondering if it is possible to get any clarification as to whether there is any benefit to the 10/100/1000 version over the 10/100? The switch I am looking to replace with a Cisco also handles an Apple TV, Xbox, TV, Airport Express.

Although most devices on the market these days have gigabit ports, I think 100MB is plenty for the vast majority of domestic networks. Naim streamers all have 100MB ports, even the newest models, and this is plenty for even hi-res music streaming. I suspect this might be by design, as they might be less electrically noisy, but that's just speculation.

Cisco switches with 10/100 ports generally also have a combination SFP/RJ45 port which is gigabit. This is commonly used as an uplink port, so individual devices connected to the regular 10/100 ports might all be communicating simultaneously to, say, a broadband router, meaning that the single gigabit port handles the larger volume of data.

Unless you have a very busy LAN, I suspect you will be fine with the 10/100 version.  

Frank Yang posted:

Personally I would go for 1 gbps, my wireless is well now over 300 mbps. A reserved high bandwidth is always a good thing.

Simon in Suffolk and others have, over a .....at least a year, recommended to go for the Cisco WS-C2960-8TC-L 10/100 Mb versions. Simon has write, at least 100 inputs why you shall do that. ◾ Don't forget,we buy this Cisco's only for one thing,......BETTER SOUNDQUALITY❗ 

And,if we are looking for better soundquality,.....we shall NOT go wireless.

/Peder 🙂 

Peder posted:
Frank Yang posted:

Personally I would go for 1 gbps, my wireless is well now over 300 mbps. A reserved high bandwidth is always a good thing.

Simon in Suffolk and others have, over a .....at least a year, recommended to go for the Cisco WS-C2960-8TC-L 10/100 Mb versions. Simon has write, at least 100 inputs why you shall do that. ◾ Don't forget,we buy this Cisco's only for one thing,......BETTER SOUNDQUALITY❗ 

And,if we are looking for better soundquality,.....we shall NOT go wireless.

/Peder 🙂 

Actually, I meant my internet speed is now well over 300 mpbs, but no matter. 
If it is for sound quality, would a 1000 mb sound better than 100 mb switch? I have not experimented with it, but intuitively it seems to be so, also the price differences in used cisco switches are not big.

Frank Yang posted:
Peder posted:
Frank Yang posted:

Personally I would go for 1 gbps, my wireless is well now over 300 mbps. A reserved high bandwidth is always a good thing.

Simon in Suffolk and others have, over a .....at least a year, recommended to go for the Cisco WS-C2960-8TC-L 10/100 Mb versions. Simon has write, at least 100 inputs why you shall do that. ◾ Don't forget,we buy this Cisco's only for one thing,......BETTER SOUNDQUALITY❗ 

And,if we are looking for better soundquality,.....we shall NOT go wireless.

/Peder 🙂 

Actually, I meant my internet speed is now well over 300 mpbs, but no matter. 
If it is for sound quality, would a 1000 mb sound better than 100 mb switch? I have not experimented with it,◾but intuitively it seems to be so◾,also the price differences in used cisco switches are not big.

Intuitively Simon and others,who knows much more about this,...at least to this day, talked about 100Mb switch as a better alternative....IF,we talk about soundquality.

I don't know,just tell you what I have read here 👍🏻.

/Peder 🙂 

audio1946 posted:

what do naim  think of cisco. IF they do improve  .they should be supplies with their top of range streamers

 

❓❓ I don't get your point here. You have wall-shelfs and racks for the LP12,who improve the LP12. Linn doesn't supplies with them when you buy an LP12.

/Peder 🙂 

So I got a used 2960-24TC-L for £25 (plus £6.99 for a 'kettle' lead).  Appears to be plug and play, but not exactly quiet!  Luckily it's in my garage but not sure I'd want that in my living room.  Are they all this noisy or have I gut a dud?  Not listened to music yet other than to check my Atom and Mu-so Qb still work.

Bryce Curdy posted:

So I got a used 2960-24TC-L for £25 (plus £6.99 for a 'kettle' lead).  Appears to be plug and play, but not exactly quiet!  Luckily it's in my garage but not sure I'd want that in my living room.  Are they all this noisy or have I gut a dud?  Not listened to music yet other than to check my Atom and Mu-so Qb still work.

the 24 port are noisier, from what i read and understood in this forum. Do you need so many ports ?   in general members here are buying 8 port cisco 2960...

French Rooster posted:
Bryce Curdy posted:

So I got a used 2960-24TC-L for £25 (plus £6.99 for a 'kettle' lead).  Appears to be plug and play, but not exactly quiet!  Luckily it's in my garage but not sure I'd want that in my living room.  Are they all this noisy or have I gut a dud?  Not listened to music yet other than to check my Atom and Mu-so Qb still work.

the 24 port are noisier, from what i read and understood in this forum. Do you need so many ports ?   in general members here are buying 8 port cisco 2960...

I don't need 24, but I am using 10 of them at present.  A couple are not essential or could be wireless but equally future proofing comes into the reckoning.The auction site had 8, 24 and 48 port switches but no others assuming 12 and 16 port models exist.

If I could wind the clock back when I ran a long CAT6 cable from my router in my lounge (connected to the master socket) outside, up the wall, back inside, over the ceiling and down into my attached garage (where the switch is) I would have ran a second cable to an 8 port dedicated switch.  I might do it at some point.

Frank Yang posted:
Peder posted:
Frank Yang posted:

Personally I would go for 1 gbps, my wireless is well now over 300 mbps. A reserved high bandwidth is always a good thing.

Simon in Suffolk and others have, over a .....at least a year, recommended to go for the Cisco WS-C2960-8TC-L 10/100 Mb versions. Simon has write, at least 100 inputs why you shall do that. ◾ Don't forget,we buy this Cisco's only for one thing,......BETTER SOUNDQUALITY❗ 

And,if we are looking for better soundquality,.....we shall NOT go wireless.

/Peder 🙂 

Actually, I meant my internet speed is now well over 300 mpbs, but no matter. 
If it is for sound quality, would a 1000 mb sound better than 100 mb switch? I have not experimented with it, but intuitively it seems to be so, also the price differences in used cisco switches are not big.

You can’t equate internet connection ‘speed’ with your own local network speeds.... the transfers are far more varied via the Internet with often bigger peaks and troughs for a session connection ... so unless you are doing a sustained transfer like a large backup and no other activity on your internet access, then a Fast Ethernet switch (100/10 Mbps) with Gigabit (1000bps) port on the uplink to your router will most often be ideal.... so don’t worry too much.. although gigabit devices are now readily available. In my professional environment I see and use  ratios of 1:10 and sometimes significantly higher between local network speed and internet access max headroom speed for many government and commercial operations.

For SQ reasons a Fast Ethernet as opposed to Gigabit Ethernet has the potential to have less impact on sound quality through EMI as only 2 pairs as opposed 4 pairs are used in the Ethernet lead. I dont know if this is why Naim chose Fast Ethernet or not, bit it clearly is going to help.

A gigabit switch connecting to a Fast Ethernet device like a Naim streamer will of course also only use 2 pairs on that link.

Bryce Curdy posted:
French Rooster posted:
Bryce Curdy posted:

So I got a used 2960-24TC-L for £25 (plus £6.99 for a 'kettle' lead).  Appears to be plug and play, but not exactly quiet!  Luckily it's in my garage but not sure I'd want that in my living room.  Are they all this noisy or have I gut a dud?  Not listened to music yet other than to check my Atom and Mu-so Qb still work.

the 24 port are noisier, from what i read and understood in this forum. Do you need so many ports ?   in general members here are buying 8 port cisco 2960...

I don't need 24, but I am using 10 of them at present.  A couple are not essential or could be wireless but equally future proofing comes into the reckoning.The auction site had 8, 24 and 48 port switches but no others assuming 12 and 16 port models exist.

If I could wind the clock back when I ran a long CAT6 cable from my router in my lounge (connected to the master socket) outside, up the wall, back inside, over the ceiling and down into my attached garage (where the switch is) I would have ran a second cable to an 8 port dedicated switch.  I might do it at some point.

you can have two switches : one cisco 2960 for streaming and a cheap one like netgear gs 105 for the tv and other devices....

Or cisco for audio and the other devices connected to your router.

Just ideas in order to have a quiet switch for audio....

French Rooster posted:
Bryce Curdy posted:
French Rooster posted:
Bryce Curdy posted:

So I got a used 2960-24TC-L for £25 (plus £6.99 for a 'kettle' lead).  Appears to be plug and play, but not exactly quiet!  Luckily it's in my garage but not sure I'd want that in my living room.  Are they all this noisy or have I gut a dud?  Not listened to music yet other than to check my Atom and Mu-so Qb still work.

the 24 port are noisier, from what i read and understood in this forum. Do you need so many ports ?   in general members here are buying 8 port cisco 2960...

I don't need 24, but I am using 10 of them at present.  A couple are not essential or could be wireless but equally future proofing comes into the reckoning.The auction site had 8, 24 and 48 port switches but no others assuming 12 and 16 port models exist.

If I could wind the clock back when I ran a long CAT6 cable from my router in my lounge (connected to the master socket) outside, up the wall, back inside, over the ceiling and down into my attached garage (where the switch is) I would have ran a second cable to an 8 port dedicated switch.  I might do it at some point.

you can have two switches : one cisco 2960 for streaming and a cheap one like netgear gs 105 for the tv and other devices....

Or cisco for audio and the other devices connected to your router.

Just ideas in order to have a quiet switch for audio....

That's what I was referring to when I posted about a second CAT6 cable from router in lounge to garage where any switch needs to be.  I could plug the streamer directly into the router or indirectly using a switch but the NAS and my bedroom Mu-so Qb would need the 24 port main switch.

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