Cisco switch

Gianluigi Mazzorana posted:
Peder posted:

Hi Chag, I'm surpriced....can't you send Private Message on this forum❓ ..... and if so,....WHY❓ 

I have look around, but can't find any "private message"-function.

/Peder 🤔❓ 

 

There's a wall. You can write on it.

Hi Gianluigi Mazzorana 🙂, I must be stupid.I go to "Chag's" Profil Information,...clic on the word ◾Wall. But I can't write anything there,can you please help me...so I can send a message to Chag.

Regards Peder 🙂 

james n posted:

Why not just mention the name of the company - google can do the rest. Correct me if i'm wrong but posting links etc is not allowed but mentioning a company name should be ok...

◾James n, maybe....I have just spend some time reading the forum rules again,maybe I can do that maybe not. I shall check again, maybe I read the rules to fast 😉.

But people often write here,....."a well know'n action-site or flea-bay" insteed of the name.So it's because of that.

/Peder 🙂 

sjbabbey posted:

Peder,

if you open Chag’s profile in the top right you should see a button marked “+ Post to this wall”. 

Press that button and off you go.

Thank's 👍🏻😍,now Chag has the message.

Thank's again,Peder 😃.

Chag... posted:

Hi Peder, SJBabbey; Thank you so much for addressing my request and facilitating. I am now responding to Peder’s private message. Best of luck to you all. 😄

Chag -

Not so much private to you a Peder, but only accessible to members rather than the whole of the world! I got mine from UsedCisco with the same testing. Don’t know about returns though.

Phil

Filipe posted:
Chag... posted:

Hi Peder, SJBabbey; Thank you so much for addressing my request and facilitating. I am now responding to Peder’s private message. Best of luck to you all. 😄

Chag -

Not so much private to you a Peder, but only accessible to members rather than the whole of the world! I got mine from UsedCisco with the same testing. Don’t know about returns though.

Phil

Phil,as you say...not so private 😉,only for our forum-friends,not the whole world. But Chag can now send me a mail so we can talk more in private.

I buy from this company because of their 26 step data-test program,life-time warranty.....and if I sell it,the new owner has three years warranty.Simon say this cisco's are "tanks",but if I have some problems with it....they send me a new one directly.That before I have send my cisco back to them. And if I will buy another cisco,they buy this back as a part in the deal.

They also pick up the latest made, they have in stock for me/us. You also get your own account manager, who give you service and can take care of problems you might have. But I think the company you buy your cisco from also is good.

/Peder 🙂 

Peder posted:
Filipe posted:
Chag... posted:

Hi Peder, SJBabbey; Thank you so much for addressing my request and facilitating. I am now responding to Peder’s private message. Best of luck to you all. 😄

Chag -

Not so much private to you a Peder, but only accessible to members rather than the whole of the world! I got mine from UsedCisco with the same testing. Don’t know about returns though.

Phil

Phil,as you say...not so private 😉,only for our forum-friends,not the whole world. But Chag can now send me a mail so we can talk more in private.

I buy from this company because of their 26 step data-test program,life-time warranty.....and if I sell it,the new owner has three years warranty.Simon say this cisco's are "tanks",but if I have some problems with it....they send me a new one directly.That before I have send my cisco back to them. And if I will buy another cisco,they buy this back as a part in the deal.

They also pick up the latest made, they have in stock for me/us. You also get your own account manager, who give you service and can take care of problems you might have. But I think the company you buy your cisco from also is good.

/Peder 🙂 

Thanks for the info Peder, I just spoke to David who was very helpful and he will email me prices later. Which actual model do you buy - the standard 2960 8TCL? I see there is also a 'G' version which I presume is gigabit 

Mercky....👍🏻,...thank's 🙂.

We/I,go for the,....◾Cisco WS-C2960-8TC-L◾.The model that is recommended by Simon.

Simon know all about this,so it would be foolish not to listen to Simon's advice.

David is very helpful and kind,did he tell you that he is from Sweden,...Gothenburg ❗ ....but living in Holland. We talk to each other on the phone,almost an our last friday. I had another account manager before David,....Peter is his name.....also very good. But because I am from Sweden,David take over so we can talk swedish together 👍🏻😁.

I have educate them a little about high end hifi,and what we shall have the Cisco's for 😎😉😁. Told them about Simon,and his advice,and so on.

/Peder 🙂 

Mercky posted:

Is there any difference between the normal grey 2960's and the compact white versions? They're both called 2960TCL

I presume you mean the greyish blue version vs the white one. The latter is just newer, and is actually a little larger (deeper) than the old version. There are also numerous variations in function, some have PoE, different numbers of uplink/SFP ports etc. 

The white ones, being newer, usually go for higher prices, but either is fine. I've used both, and they both seem to work well, although I've never attempted a rigorous sound quality comparison!

ChrisSU posted:

There are also numerous variations in function, some have PoE, different numbers of uplink/SFP ports etc. 

Thanks to Peder I am now in contact with his supplier. I am aiming at both the Catalyst WS-C3560-8PC and WS-C2960-8TC-L as recommended by Simon.🤓

Now, I would tend not to support PoE as it only aims at removing the need and costs of wall power and cabling. Doesn’t it add risks of RFI for that matter? Shouldn’t we opt in the end for LPS for these critical switches in the last meter before our precious network players and ultimate DACs?😝

Finally, as we have addressed speed rate requirements, should we also consider minimum specs for memory capacity?🤔

Chag -

Mercky posted:

Is there any difference between the normal grey 2960's and the compact white versions? They're both called 2960TCL

Sonically, no difference at all. I've posted previously on the testing i did with differant models. The white are just newer and in some models support Gigabit Ethernet.

Chag... posted:
ChrisSU posted:

There are also numerous variations in function, some have PoE, different numbers of uplink/SFP ports etc. 

Thanks to Peder I am now in contact with his supplier. I am aiming at both the Catalyst WS-C3560-8PC and WS-C2960-8TC-L as recommended by Simon.🤓

Now, I would tend not to support PoE as it only aims at removing the need and costs of wall power and cabling. Doesn’t it add risks of RFI for that matter? Shouldn’t we opt in the end for LPS for these critical switches in the last meter before our precious network players and ultimate DACs?😝

Finally, as we have addressed speed rate requirements, should we also consider minimum specs for memory capacity?🤔

Chag -

If a SNAIC can send DC down a cable that carries an audio signal, I don't see why an Ethernet cable can't carry DC as well as audio data. Also, you eliminate at least one PSU altogether, by powering one device from another. 

The Catalyst switches nearly all have a built in PSU, so you can't upgrade it. I believe they are electrically very quiet, so replacement with an external supply is not something I would bother with.

If, by 'speed rate' you mean gigabit rather than 100mb fast Ethernet, no, I think 100mb is more than enough. Naim presumably agree, as all their streamers support only 100mb. I suspect this might be less electrically noisy due to lower power consumption, so this could be a design choice by them.

Well, I took the plunge, and ordered a $29 Cisco switch today off eBay. Will be interesting to see if any difference from the 24 port fan less Trendnet I got recently for the whole house to congregate in one point. It has a similar looking power supply as the Cisco, and I thought it was better sounding than the Netgear with ground shunt I was using as a subnet. Oh well, the last bit of tweakery I will do on the network front, and I'll check back in with a report once I get it. 

Chris, you could argue that the SNAIC is designed for carrying audio signal and DC power in different and well separated if not isolated conductors. It is not the case with Ethernet cable. Now this being written I would concede that low voltage DC may not induce important EMI if kept constant. This is what you and others seem to assert. I accept this and will then go for PoE without much more hesitation. Thanks. 😄

Chag -

Chag, I’m not a network engineer, and wouldn’t claim to have much knowledge or expertise here, so maybe don’t take my suggestions as gospel! PoE sounds like a neat idea to me, I’d be tempted to give it a try, but my Cisco switches are linked by fibre optic cables, and I’m fairly sure DC won’t travel down them!

Regarding separation, I would guess that you could perhaps use one port/cable for power, and another for data. Maybe?!

Chag... posted:

Chris, you could argue that the SNAIC is designed for carrying audio signal and DC power in different and well separated if not isolated conductors. It is not the case with Ethernet cable. Now this being written I would concede that low voltage DC may not induce important EMI if kept constant. This is what you and others seem to assert. I accept this and will then go for PoE without much more hesitation. Thanks. 😄

Chag -

Chag, It’s the changing current that creates the changing magnetic field. The current at constant voltage will be proportional to the power/energy being drawn, which may or may not be constant. Unlikely that PoE is used for analogue audio signals. Probably ok.

Phil

rjfk posted:
Mercky posted:

Is there any difference between the normal grey 2960's and the compact white versions? They're both called 2960TCL

Sonically, no difference at all. I've posted previously on the testing i did with differant models. The white are just newer and in some models support Gigabit Ethernet.

I have a feeling that some of you will feel regret later if you do not go for the gigabit version.

Been following this thread with interest and doing some research only to find that these sometimes blue, sometimes white switches come in various flavours, which only get more confusing as you try to decipher the various models. Luckily for me, you've made my search easier by clearly indicating the model to seek out. So, going to try this myself and get a WS-C2960-8TC-L.

Frank Yang posted:
rjfk posted:
Mercky posted:

Is there any difference between the normal grey 2960's and the compact white versions? They're both called 2960TCL

Sonically, no difference at all. I've posted previously on the testing i did with differant models. The white are just newer and in some models support Gigabit Ethernet.

I have a feeling that some of you will feel regret later if you do not go for the gigabit version.

😵 WHY...❓❓ 

/Peder 🙂 

Peder posted:
Frank Yang posted:
rjfk posted:
Mercky posted:

Is there any difference between the normal grey 2960's and the compact white versions? They're both called 2960TCL

Sonically, no difference at all. I've posted previously on the testing i did with differant models. The white are just newer and in some models support Gigabit Ethernet.

I have a feeling that some of you will feel regret later if you do not go for the gigabit version.

😵 WHY...❓❓ 

/Peder 🙂 

WS-C2960-8TC-L is EOL support (but to be fair some other 2960s  are also EOL), but my main point is that it will be come a bottleneck if you later plugin some other high speed devices. Maybe it does, maybe it does not if low speed devices are all you need since all current Naim streamers do not go beyond 100 mbps, one of my sources is a MacMini, and it is a 1,000 mbps device, it does more things just playing Audirvana.

Frank Yang posted:
Peder posted:
Frank Yang posted:
rjfk posted:
Mercky posted:

Is there any difference between the normal grey 2960's and the compact white versions? They're both called 2960TCL

Sonically, no difference at all. I've posted previously on the testing i did with differant models. The white are just newer and in some models support Gigabit Ethernet.

I have a feeling that some of you will feel regret later if you do not go for the gigabit version.

😵 WHY...❓❓ 

/Peder 🙂 

WS-C2960-8TC-L is EOL support (but to be fair some other 2960s  are also EOL), but my main point is that it will be come a bottleneck if you later plugin some other high speed devices. Maybe it does, maybe it does not if low speed devices are all you need.

I don't think EOL is a big deal, they are very robust switches, and there is a steady supply of cheap used ones if you need a replacement. Most of them have 1 or 2 gigabit uplink ports, with the others being 100mb, which is still going to be plenty for most purposes. Certainly enough for hi-res audio. 

I've seen a few posts focusing on very specific models of switch. This is not necessary.

There are a number of Cisco switches which offer the compact fan-less form factor and give the high-quality network transport which results in the sonic benefits.

Cisco will not be the only brand that do this I suspect. Similar enterprise grade switches from Extreme, Juniper, HP, Cabletron (blast from the past! that wil instantly date me) will do similar. I don't know their ranges well enough though to know which models this applies to though. For Cisco I've pulled a list together below.

There are other switches in the Cisco range, such as the Connected Grid and Industrial Ethernet ranges, that will have the sonic benefits but I would expect these will be very pricey if available and may not be suitable for  a domestic environment. The Connected Grid range, a.k.a CGS, for example requires a PSU in addition to the switch. This fits inside the switch and the switch is then hard-wired to the power source.

Some of the below switches can do some useful stuff. Like act as a DHCP server. There are differant software levels to enable this. You do not need this functionality to get the sonic benefits. So which ever level of software it has is fine, common words you will see for this are "Lan Base" and "Enterprise". None of the below support NAT. This is only suport in Cisco routers.

The older discontinued models will still be good. This kit it built to last. I wouldn't worry about their age too much. The newer models will obvisouly have a longer life and whilst Gigabit Ehternet isn't needed for audio streaming it may be useful for other kit you have connnected. I have used both and they have the same sonic benefit, refer to my previous post on the testing done.

Hope this helps, apols for the long post below, thought it best to be unabiguous on each model range.

Russ

Cisco Catalyst 2960

End of sale 29Jul13, end of support 31Jul18. Still does it what’s it’s meant to though! 😊

10/100 Ethernet switch.

Older blue/green case work.

Compact, fan-less form factor.

Internal PSU, takes a CEE22 lead.

Requires a Cisco console cable if you wish to get techie and configure it. This is light blue with an RJ45 at one end and a 9-pn D-type serial connector at the other.

Models other than the two below are designed for a 19 inch rack and are not fan-less.

2960-8TC-L

2960-8TC-S

Cisco Catalyst 3560

End of sale 29Jul13, end of support 31Jul18. Still does it what’s it’s meant to though! 😊

10/100 Ethernet switch.

Older blue/green case work.

Compact, fan-less form factor.

Internal PSU, takes a CEE22 lead.

Requires a Cisco console cable if you wish to get techie and configure it. This is light blue with an RJ45 at one end and a 9-pn D-type serial connector at the other.

Models other than the two below are designed for a 19 inch rack and are not fan-less.

3560-8PC

3560-12PC-S

Cisco Catalyst 2960-L

Current as of date of post.

10/100/1000 Ethernet switch.

White, square case work.

Internal PSU, takes a CEE22 lead.

Requires either a Cisco console cable or USB cable to configure.

The 8 and 16 port models are in a compact form factor.

The 24 port model are designed for a 19 inch rack-mount but will still sit on a shelf.

The 48 port models in this range are not fan-less.

 WS-C2960L-8TS-LL

WS-C2960L-8PS-LL

WS-C2960L-16TS-LL

WS-C2960L-16PS-LL

WS-C2960L-24TS-LL

WS-C2960L-24PS-LL

WS-C2960L-24PQ-LL

 Cisco Catalyst 2960CX

Current as of date of post, but possibly going end of sale to be replaced by the 2960-L range.

10/100/1000 Ethernet switch.

White, compact form factor with rounded sides.

Same case work as the 3650CX range, but basic Ethernet switch services only. This all you need.

Internal PSU, takes a CEE22 lead.

Requires either a Cisco console cable or USB cable to configure.

 2960CX-8TC-L

2960CX-8PC-L

 Cisco Catalyst 3560CX Range

White, compact form factor with rounded sides.

Same case work as the 2960CX range but with an additional software licence can run more advanced ethernet switching and services. You don't need this unless you want to get techie.

Internal PSU, takes a CEE22 lead.

Requires either a Cisco console cable or USB cable to configure.

 Do not get the C3560CX-8PT-S which is itself powered from a PoE source.

 3560CX-8TC-S

3560CX-12TC-S

3560CX-8PC-S

3560CX-12PC-S

3560CX-12PD-S

3560CX-8XPD-S

 Cisco Meraki

The MS120-8 and MS220-8 may have similar sonic benefits.

They are compact fan-less switches with eight ports. It is manged from a cloud application and I;d suggest is not ideal for a domestic setup.

More importantly, Meraki were an acquisition of Cisco's a few years back. It is highly likely that the Ethernet circuitry remains different to that found in the Catalyst range of switches and therefore may not have the same benefits to network traffic and therefore sonic benefits. Best avoided I’d suggest, unless someone wishes to test.

 Cisco Small Business Switches

These probably don’t have the same sonic benefits as they are low-end almost consumer type units.

End of sales models 90, 95, 100, 200, 300, 350, 500, ESW500.

Current models are the 110, 250 350X and 550X.

 

 

 

 

RJFK,

Nice write up.  And in principle I agree (and have previously stated that as far as I can see, it's the quality of these switches, including their stable clocks good PSUs and precise circuitry; and their being designed to not exacerbate interference additively when used together in large numbers) that makes the difference.

I think most people have been precise when discussing the exact switch they use simply because they don't want to mislead people, just in case some variants don't work as well as some others (this is certainly why I specified the precise model of 2960 that I use, rather than believing that other models may be less good).

Got my 2960 today. $29 shipped free coast to coast - figured it couldn’t hurt. And hurt it doesn’t. More detail I think, better bass control. One does need to pay attention to ethernet and power cables - both can “tune” the switch. I only have the option of switching out the server to switch cable, and decided on my AQ Cinnamon. Power cable is a cheapo “audiophile” cable - bit more laid back than a Naim Tibia. I can see how some could find the sound a bit harsh - it’s really more detail I think. Difference between merely feeling the bass and hearing the strings and amp. A balance between the two is nice. I can always tell when the noise floor has been lowered because I can turn it up a few more notches. Unfortunately the quality of the source is outpacing the size of the amp. 

Switch is a V 03, manufactured July 2010. Case fairly warped so put it on 3 acoustic blocks and some Herbie’s grungebuster and a rock on top. Audiophile Nervosa temporarily satiated. 

Thank you indeed RJFK. This brief review helped me a lot to understand the series primary specs and variants. As HUGE and yourself have eluded to, most of these models share the same standards of design and construction for greater SQ in the end.

I just came across the 10/100 WS-C2960C series. C as compact. I want to assume that there wouldn’t be any reason to disregard this particular series on the back of a more congested lay-out and placement of components and circuits. Would you agree?🤓

Chag -

Chag... posted:

Thank you indeed RJFK. This brief review helped me a lot to understand the series primary specs and variants. As HUGE and yourself have eluded to, most of these models share the same standards of design and construction for greater SQ in the end.

I just came across the 10/100 WS-C2960C series. C as compact. I want to assume that there wouldn’t be any reason to disregard this particular series on the back of a more congested lay-out and placement of components and circuits. Would you agree?🤓

Chag -

Are you sure C stands for compact?! For an explanation of the rather confusing model numbers, see this:

http://www.fiber-optic-tutoria...-cisco-switches.html

Hi Chag,

Thanks for the spot. The links I worked through on Cisco's site shows that I checked the 2960C but clealry missed it in the post. Apols. Added below in the same format.

Since my orginal post one thing has crossed my mind. If you want Gigabit Ethernet to support an Uplink to another room or your internet connection then most of these switches, especially the white ones come with two uplinks that support Gigabit Ethernet. Some models will require additional interface modules to support this. If this is a need double check what you are buying carefuly or go for one of the 10/100/1000 switches.

Russ

Cisco Catalyst 2960-C Series
Current as of date of post, no end of sale announced.
10/100 Ethernet switch, one model supports 10/100/1000.
White, compact form factor with rounded sides, fan-less.
Same case work as the 3560-C range, but basic Ethernet switch services only. This all you need.
Internal PSU, takes a CEE22 lead.
Requires either a Cisco console cable or USB cable to configure.

Do not get the WS-C2960CPD-8PT-L. This takes it's power from a PoE+ uplink or external power supply.  And no.. an external power supply is highly unlikely to add sonic benefits to this, but feel free to test!

2960C-8TC-L
2960C-8TC-S
2960CPD-8TT-L
2960C-8PC-L
2960CPD-8PT-L
2960C-12PC-L
2960CG-8TC-L *This model is a 10/100/1000 switch.

Cisco Catalyst 3560-C Series
Current as of date of post, no end of sale announced.
10/100 Ethernet switch, some models support 10/100/1000.
White, compact form factor with rounded sides, fan-less.
Same case work as the 2960-C range, capable of more advanced Layer 3 Ethernet services. You do not need this to get the sonic benefits.

Internal PSU, takes a CEE22 lead.
Requires either a Cisco console cable or USB cable to configure.

Do not get the WS-C3560CPD-8PT-S. This takes it's power from a PoE+ uplink or external power supply.  And no.. an external power supply is highly unlikely to add sonic benefits to this, but feel free to test!


3560C-8PC-S
3560C-12PC-S
3560CG-8TC-S *This model is a 10/100/1000 switch.
3560CG-8PC-S *This model is a 10/100/1000 switch.

Yes I am sure Chris as it is indicated on the 2960-C and 3560-C datasheet. It is however besides the point. The 8 port 2960-C and 3560-C compact series present a 4.44x26.9x17.2cm and 4.44x26.9x21.3cm casing respectively whereas the other 2960 and 3560 series may show 21.3 to 26.8cm case lengths. Hence the question whether shortening the case of a 10/100MB switch by 20% from 21 to 17cm if of all about the same function in principle, may have a detrimental effect for EMIs of all sorts on final SQ. 😝

Nevertheless thank you very much indeed for the link to this explanation of Cisco models’ nomenclature. It may be an opportunity for those who know to help us neophytes, understand ground up what are minimum, and maximum, function and specs we should consider for a 8 port cost effective fit-for-purpose Cisco switch to ensure greater SQ.  In other terms let’s align the right letters together and make the perfect Scrabble before the true, but maybe overstated and certainly overpriced, “audiophile” switches like the UpTone are launched this summer. 😎

Chag -

It is the Catalyst switches I have found to be beneficial as opposed to any default Cisco switch or other vendor switch.

The 2960 series and 3560 series devices are Cisco Catalyst devices.

In response to an earlier post, one of the 2960 8 port devices can be powered by PoE and indeed I do this (WS-C2960CPD-8PT-L)  - works very well... one way of getting rid of the power supply/linear power supply issues and reducing complexity and 'sounds' fantastic.

S

 

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

It is the Catalyst switches I have found to be beneficial as opposed to any default Cisco switch or other vendor switch.

The 2960 series and 3560 series devices are Cisco Catalyst devices.

In response to an earlier post, one of the 2960 8 port devices can be powered by PoE and indeed I do this (WS-C2960CPD-8PT-L)  - works very well... one way of getting rid of the power supply/linear power supply issues and reducing complexity and 'sounds' fantastic.

Simon,

I have a CISCO SG200-10FP to which I connect all my networked devices (Cisco WiFi access point, Synology NAS, PoE Camera, Roon NUC , 2 desktop computers).

I’m planning to replace my nDAC with one of the new Naim network players.

As it seems that the Catalyst series work well with Naim streamers, I will replace my actual switch with the WS-C3560CX-12PC-S. It’s fully managed and has 12 ports.

Would it be preferable to connect to the SG200 a cheaper switch like an old Catalyst 2960 and use it only for the Naim streamer and the Roon Rock?

Or will WS-C3560CX-12PC-S do the trick while managing my network?

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