Help needed! How to connect Unitiserve to NAS!

I've spent several frustrating hours trying to make my US and NAS (Synology 412+) talk.

Can anyone share tips to make this work.

What I have done:

  1. Found US "Home Menu" on my web browser.  Even this wasn't simple but didn't take too long.  (For any other beginners out there, you have to find the MAC address of your US on the back panel.  Then type into your browser "\\nssrvXXXX" where the XXXX = last 4 digits of your US's MAC address.  Magically you're hooked up with your US via the WWW.)
  2. Created a couple of share folders on my NAS ("download" for HDtracks, and "Backup" for backing up my US files).
  3. Created "Network Shares" on my US (via the Home Menu).  Initially US didn't see anything from my NAS.  But after manually entering a location, all other locations popped up (except the one that I assigned as a "Music Store" - see below).
  4. Created "Music Store".  I don't know what the difference is between Music Store and Network Share, but mapped the "download" directory (intended for HDtracks) as a Music Store.  It promoted successful "download" as a Music Store.
  5. Copied a music file from HDtrack sampler (originally downloaded to my computer hard-drive by mistake) to the NAS "download" directory. 

Took a couple of hours to do the above.  Then the next couple of hours trying to see something/anything materialize.  But alas I cannot get n-serve or web-browser Home Menu interface to see or play anything from the NAS. 

What am I doing wrong or what should I do so I can play music from NAS via the US? 

Thank you in advance for any help!

Original Post

Music Stores are only for files created by the UServe's ripping operation.

For files you download -- you want them in a Share not a Store.

Did you designate the new folders on the nas as "shared folders?" Must do that.

Make sure that the shared folders do NOT contain a recycle bin / trash can.

"RTFM" applies as well.

Having on loan an HDX I am sharing the OP's frustration. The HDX fails to connect to my NAS proper (QNAP) - shows the /multimedia folder status as "offline" no matter what I do but at least "sees" the USB disk I have connected to the QNAP for back up. I too find the concept of shares and stores rather cumbersome - presumably it is thus designed so as to provide high flexibility but the effort needed as a newcomer is certainly high.

The sound however... is marvellous! 

Adam, thanks and I just took a look.  Quite similar to what I was thinking and wish I had it earlier.  I went back and renamed the directories in my NAS.  Then entered Naim workgroup. 

But still doesn't work - or works poorly.  I'm not sure if others have had smooth sailing just following that Naim instruction, or everyone is an IT expert. 

So what's happened since last night:

  • The reason it didn't work was because I copied a music file manually into NAS drive (without creating the artist/album folders).  It seems this was why US didn't detect the music file (even though it was there).  I subsequently downloaded the samplers again, correctly pointing to the NAS drive.  SUCCESS FINALLY!
  • This morning after turning everything back on, US refuses to see the music files again.  US sees the NAS (status = online), but both the web browser and n-serve will not offer the NAS server to select music from.  It says "no data" available.  Rubbish.

I might be missing something very dumb to make it gel.  I hope so.  Getting so tired with this...not how I want to spend my time. 

Don't turn off the UServe and nas at night; both are meant to be "on" all the time.  

You won't see the nas itself as a source for music files, only the Share(s).  The name(s) of the Share(s) appear as the names you used when creating the shared folders that you are using as Shares.

I followed the instructions from Naim to the letter andit took me 10 minutes to set my QNAP up. The longest part of those 10 minutes was connecting cables.

Can you post some screenshots of what you see now via the Naim app and from the web-browser under the 'maintenance' section? Without seeing those it will be difficult to see what has happened.

It is a good idea to have your router assign the same dhcp addresses to the nas and UServe permanently. It is done somewhere in the router settings. this is not normally absolutely necessary but since you have powered down both nas and uServe this could be part of your problem.

I got my ns01 back from repair Wednesdayand I have switched router after the NS01 went to Naim, but everything worked as before.

Claus

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

It is a good idea to have your router assign the same dhcp addresses to the nas and UServe permanently. It is done somewhere in the router settings. this is not normally absolutely necessary but since you have powered down both nas and uServe this could be part of your problem.

I got my ns01 back from repair Wednesdayand I have switched router after the NS01 went to Naim, but everything worked as before.

Claus

Not so sure... unless you know exactly what needs to be done it's better to leave it in an auto mode.

Adam Zielinski posted:
Claus-Thoegersen posted:

It is a good idea to have your router assign the same dhcp addresses to the nas and UServe permanently. It is done somewhere in the router settings. this is not normally absolutely necessary but since you have powered down both nas and uServe this could be part of your problem.

I got my ns01 back from repair Wednesdayand I have switched router after the NS01 went to Naim, but everything worked as before.

Claus

Not so sure... unless you know exactly what needs to be done it's better to leave it in an auto mode.

I agree -- one can get "stuck" otherwise.  

One caveat - the backup destinations for the UnitiServe, at least when I owned one, were always set to fixed IP addresses when the backup Store was created.  If the IP address of my nas changed, I had to manually edit the backup destination, I seem to recall.

I have my Naim, NAS & iPad units on a 'fixed' IP address.  It's never caused a problem of any sort,  & reading some of the reports of room discovery & loosing connections,  I'm not changing anything.     I use numbers from within the ISP's DHCP licence range, this keeps it simple,  & select numbers that are far away from the low denomination numbers that the ISP uses for its auto management.    Its easy to do with my ISP hub,  but will not be the same for others,  but maybe worth looking into.  

Adam it takes more than 10m just to get the cables out of storage, open the storage box, find a spare LAN cable, pull out both the US and NAS boxes, connect them, etc lol.  Where are you from? 

Anyway, I went out for lunch to take a break.  When I returned a few hours later, they somehow reconnected.  I could see all the tracks again on n-serve and browser.  Some of the sampler tracks sound pretty awesome.

I then ventured to download Neil Diamond "Dreams" 192/24 from HDtracks (an album I already have on CD and ripped in to the US).  Cost US$21 after 15% discount...these things are not cheap.  Then waited 1-2 hours for them to download into my NAS.

After downloading, n-serve once again did NOT see the tracks.  Checking the NAS, they were certainly there.  Fidgeting around a little longer, managed to play them  from the browser.  Nice indeed...  Once played, n-serve shows the artwork and track info being played, but I still couldn't see the album from n-serve (yet strangely I could see the album by searching artist in n-serve). 

This seems to indicate a long lag?

keilic posted:

Adam it takes more than 10m just to get the cables out of storage, open the storage box, find a spare LAN cable, pull out both the US and NAS boxes, connect them, etc lol.  Where are you from? 

Anyway, I went out for lunch to take a break.  When I returned a few hours later, they somehow reconnected.  I could see all the tracks again on n-serve and browser.  Some of the sampler tracks sound pretty awesome.

I then ventured to download Neil Diamond "Dreams" 192/24 from HDtracks (an album I already have on CD and ripped in to the US).  Cost US$21 after 15% discount...these things are not cheap.  Then waited 1-2 hours for them to download into my NAS.

After downloading, n-serve once again did NOT see the tracks.  Checking the NAS, they were certainly there.  Fidgeting around a little longer, managed to play them  from the browser.  Nice indeed...  Once played, n-serve shows the artwork and track info being played, but I still couldn't see the album from n-serve (yet strangely I could see the album by searching artist in n-serve). 

This seems to indicate a long lag?

 

Not necessarily unless there are many new files in the share. One thing to know with the servers is that the software is very strict on what tags it allows! So a file downloaded e.g. in flac, may look and play fine in other pc players or on other upnp units, but the Userve/hdx will refuse to see the tracks if it disagrees with some of them! And downloaded tracks must be  editted with a mac/pc tag editor.

You could try to download the test tracks or maybe tracks I am unsure from naim's own online music shop they have always worked for me.

It  is of course very frustrating to start up this way, but for most of us you end up with one of the most solid streaming solutions in the end. no room discovery issues at all! just to take one example that plagues many Naim streamer users from time to time.

Claus

I just reread the original topic. Keep your shares simple, and shares should only be made using the nas firmware.

The simplest tolution is to have a  share called download. Make to folders inside not new shares! called cd and highres, and put cd rips in cd and 24 bit files in highres. You can make all the folders you like, but it must be regular folders in the main share!

Claus  

keilic posted:

Adam it takes more than 10m just to get the cables out of storage, open the storage box, find a spare LAN cable, pull out both the US and NAS boxes, connect them, etc lol.  Where are you from? 

Anyway, I went out for lunch to take a break.  When I returned a few hours later, they somehow reconnected.  I could see all the tracks again on n-serve and browser.  Some of the sampler tracks sound pretty awesome.

I then ventured to download Neil Diamond "Dreams" 192/24 from HDtracks (an album I already have on CD and ripped in to the US).  Cost US$21 after 15% discount...these things are not cheap.  Then waited 1-2 hours for them to download into my NAS.

After downloading, n-serve once again did NOT see the tracks.  Checking the NAS, they were certainly there.  Fidgeting around a little longer, managed to play them  from the browser.  Nice indeed...  Once played, n-serve shows the artwork and track info being played, but I still couldn't see the album from n-serve (yet strangely I could see the album by searching artist in n-serve). 

This seems to indicate a long lag?

Looks like your UnitiServe was still indexing the NAS. As stated previously, they are designed to left ON all the time.
You can always 'force' your UnitiServe to re-scan the NAS - there is a function for that in the Windows / Mac interface.

From my experience it takes approximately 5 minutes for an album to become 'visible' after an upload. Sometimes it helps to close down the iOS app and open it again - forces it refresh.

Reading this kind of thread, I'm always intrigued as to what one gains from all this palaver versus a near foolproof server > NDAC system?  Given the technology seems at best frustrating to setup to the non-IT specialist/enthusiast, it'd need to be a pretty major difference to make up for the stress!  

 

SamC posted:

Reading this kind of thread, I'm always intrigued as to what one gains from all this palaver versus a near foolproof server > NDAC system?  Given the technology seems at best frustrating to setup to the non-IT specialist/enthusiast, it'd need to be a pretty major difference to make up for the stress!  

 

I don't think you mean server > NDAC, as the Naim Dac is not a client for any type of server.

What I didn't like was having the hard drive in/on the hi fi rack.  And with 2 systems, a true server based system lets me play from one library to either/both systems.

What the OP is doing with the UnitiServe is (1) typically not that hard and (2) totally avoidable using a $300 nas for a server vs. a UnitiServe.

But back to your original point; he's actually connecting his UnitiServe directly to a dac it seems (as he's using N-Serve).

SamC posted:

Reading this kind of thread, I'm always intrigued as to what one gains from all this palaver versus a near foolproof server > NDAC system?  Given the technology seems at best frustrating to setup to the non-IT specialist/enthusiast, it'd need to be a pretty major difference to make up for the stress!  

 

The best thing I did was sell my UnitiServe and just use a Qnap nas. It's just so easy to load, manage and backup, and Asset is miles more flexible than the Naim server. If I was the OP I'd stick Minimserver on the nas and put the Serve up for sale while it still has some value. All the current hassle would then disappear. 

Naim servers are simple. Problems may ormay not happen when you want to use a Nas. It is a good idea to do, to get backup of the rips from the server, but not necessary at all. Even with the old pre 2 TB servers downloads could be placed on a usb stick. I ran myns01 for more than a year this way. And you can backup the ripped files manually.

Even with the bad press the OS on the servers get from anti MS people, it solved a lot of problems that over time has plagued the servers, even with a newer firmware platform.

Claus

Bart posted:
SamC posted:

Reading this kind of thread, I'm always intrigued as to what one gains from all this palaver versus a near foolproof server > NDAC system?  Given the technology seems at best frustrating to setup to the non-IT specialist/enthusiast, it'd need to be a pretty major difference to make up for the stress!  

 

I don't think you mean server > NDAC, as the Naim Dac is not a client for any type of server.

What I didn't like was having the hard drive in/on the hi fi rack.  And with 2 systems, a true server based system lets me play from one library to either/both systems.

What the OP is doing with the UnitiServe is (1) typically not that hard and (2) totally avoidable using a $300 nas for a server vs. a UnitiServe.

But back to your original point; he's actually connecting his UnitiServe directly to a dac it seems (as he's using N-Serve).

Yes - good point. Had forgotten an accurate description of an Innuos Zen would be server/player. 

Agree with all that - especially if running two systems where I can entirely see a networked solution is necessary. 

I guess I'm largely just surprised that very expensive products that don't have any reason to be aimed at very digitally savvy customers are - to my level of understanding - so user-unfriendly.  It feels like PC gaming did in the 80s/90s when you needed at least a passing understanding of MS DOS & fairly complicated setup just to get going. 

Plus I found Zen & a linear PSU upgrade into DAC/XPS significantly better than NDX/XPS. Which of course is entirely subjective. I've avoided hearing NDS into my amplification/speakers admittedly as I've hit the WAF-imposed limit of one Fraim stack...

Hungryhalibut posted:
SamC posted:

Reading this kind of thread, I'm always intrigued as to what one gains from all this palaver versus a near foolproof server > NDAC system?  Given the technology seems at best frustrating to setup to the non-IT specialist/enthusiast, it'd need to be a pretty major difference to make up for the stress!  

 

The best thing I did was sell my UnitiServe and just use a Qnap nas. It's just so easy to load, manage and backup, and Asset is miles more flexible than the Naim server. If I was the OP I'd stick Minimserver on the nas and put the Serve up for sale while it still has some value. All the current hassle would then disappear. 

Delighted with my US and it's  worked perfectly since day 1. I use a QNAP for backup and a certain UK made linear PS from deepest Halifax on the US - sublime. I had the HDX before moving to my NDS/555 DR combo so the US carries over most of what I've become used to.

I'm lazy - I just like putting new discs in the US and off I go. I spend all day in front of PCs so want and need to decouple myself  from the wretched things in my spare time - iPads are as far as I'll go

I do agree that the US should be left powered up. Phil Harris of Naim has been know to do the odd on-line fix if you're really stuck - I'm not sure if he'd thank me though!

UPDATE

Downloaded my 3rd album Barb Jungr 44.1/24.  Surprisingly I think this sound is better than Neil Diamond "Dream" 192/24.  Both very good tho.  I know a lot of variables and sample rate is only a factor.

But the problem with NAS/US still exists.  After turning both on, for 10m the US does not see anything from NAS.  After around 10m, the US sees only Barb Jungr.  Neil Diamond and the sampler have disappeared!  It's been around 30m and still cannot see them.

Adam, you say both units are meant to not switch off.  That makes sense.  But you say it only takes 5m to refresh.  Not true.  You say the system can be forced to refresh.  I can't find that option.  (I used to use Squeezebox and it was far easier and had an option to refresh.)  Note I turn off US because it gets very hot - I only leave it on overnight on weekends.

WHY DO I USE US

I like the ripping function and convenience of everything in a single box.  I use it with my Devialet 800.  Keeps he whole system down to a few boxes only.  Also, I compared the sound quality of US vs my old SOAT CDP at the time (Marantz SA7-S1), and was surprised that US sounded better.

Over time and eventually I became curious about hi-rez downloads.  I didn't think you could do that without a NAS (but now I think you could by downloading straight into US).  So I hooked up my NAS with the US with that misunderstanding.  But in addition I wanted something to back-up my US, in case the hard-disc busted.  So again linking up with a NAS seemed sensible.

Perhaps I should just download everything into US (to avoid needing the 2 boxes to talk - clearly they don't like each other), and use NAS as back-up only?

SamC posted:
Bart posted:
SamC posted:

Reading this kind of thread, I'm always intrigued as to what one gains from all this palaver versus a near foolproof server > NDAC system?  Given the technology seems at best frustrating to setup to the non-IT specialist/enthusiast, it'd need to be a pretty major difference to make up for the stress!  

 

I don't think you mean server > NDAC, as the Naim Dac is not a client for any type of server.

What I didn't like was having the hard drive in/on the hi fi rack.  And with 2 systems, a true server based system lets me play from one library to either/both systems.

What the OP is doing with the UnitiServe is (1) typically not that hard and (2) totally avoidable using a $300 nas for a server vs. a UnitiServe.

But back to your original point; he's actually connecting his UnitiServe directly to a dac it seems (as he's using N-Serve).

Yes - good point. Had forgotten an accurate description of an Innuos Zen would be server/player. 

Agree with all that - especially if running two systems where I can entirely see a networked solution is necessary. 

I guess I'm largely just surprised that very expensive products that don't have any reason to be aimed at very digitally savvy customers are - to my level of understanding - so user-unfriendly.  It feels like PC gaming did in the 80s/90s when you needed at least a passing understanding of MS DOS & fairly complicated setup just to get going. 

Plus I found Zen & a linear PSU upgrade into DAC/XPS significantly better than NDX/XPS. Which of course is entirely subjective. I've avoided hearing NDS into my amplification/speakers admittedly as I've hit the WAF-imposed limit of one Fraim stack...

Yes parts of using the UnitiServe have always been a bit complicated and user-unfriendly (setting up backup to a nas).  But other parts are really simple.  When I bought mine in 2012, I connected it, started ripping cd's, and they "just worked."  Then I got it upgraded to the 2tb format and easily added music to the Downloads folder and it pretty much always worked UNLESS there was a problem with the file or folder name, the tagging, or the device had not re-scanned itself.  I ultimately concluded that I could do more with a much cheaper device however.

If you are using a pc get the desktop client. There is a windows version and a mac version, however the Windows version is much better than the mac version.

Here you will be able to see how the us connects to the share espeically your download share on the nas.

Earlier on you said that the downloads had been promoted to a store, but later you say that you are putting files somewhere on the nas and that the US sees some of them, but these files must be in a share.

If you want to turn off the userve and nas that often you will have to assign fixed dhcp ip addresses to the nas and the userve.

You say it is getting hot, and the servers are much warmer than other components since there is normally no fan operating inside the computer. there is a fan but it should only be active in extreme situations.

 

Hi all,

I've managed to download the music directly to US (bypassing the NAS).  This has circumvented the need for the US and NAS to talk to each other every day (clearly something I should not expect given my own experience and others' replies).

I've now downloaded 4 albums from HDTracks.

I still have problems:

(a) I cannot see artwork of the album (even tho the PDF file is there);

(b) On 1 album, the individual songs are not grouped at album level (each track pops up as an album). 

These are show-stoppers to continuing my downloads as it's so hard to manage the content without proper grouping and visually unacceptable to not be able to see the artwork.  I've gone into the hard-drive via my laptop and even manually moved the files around (including copying the artwork of the album that works into the album with no artwork appearing).  But nothing works - US doesn't seem to respond or refresh.

Has anyone had these problem? 

The other thing I'm trying to do of course is backup my music with the NAS.  I've set it up already in the US.  But how do you make it "run"?

Thanks for any more tips.

Re (a): album covers need to be a JPG format, and the name should be FOLDER, so folder.jpg

Re (b): metadata on the album download is somehow messed up. Nothing to do witht the UnitiServe. You will need to manually adjust the metadata on the computer - I use Metadatics for that.

Adam, thanks for the quick response.

Re (a), HDTracks covers are PDF files.  What can I do?  However one of them works fine as PDF.  The other 3 don't work.  But you seem to be saying 2 things.  Both the file format and name of the cover could have an impact?  Perhaps I should first change the name to FOLDER.PDF as a first step.  I don't think I can convert the file from PDF to JPG.

Re (b): I can see the file directory and structure (i.e. parent folder correctly at album level, followed by individual tracks inside that directory).  Are you saying despite the directory structure that looks to be in order the metadata could be at fault?  And if so I'm guessing you have Metadatics on your computer that can interact with the US to correct the metadata sitting there?

Re NAS, yes both NAS and US are set up.  But I want the NAS to start the back-up process.  How do you do that as there does not to be a button anywhere for it.

RE (a)

  • HD Tracks downloads contain PDFs (booklets) by default. Those will not be read by the UnitiServe.
  • UnitiServe will read (by default) an album cover from a JPG file, placed in the folder of the album.
  • UnitServe is configured to 'react' and read only one type of file telling it, it's an album cover. It has to be called 'folder.jpg'
  • UnitiServe will only read a true JPG - i.e. a file that has been created as a JPG to start with. So converting a PDF to JPG is not recommended
  • The best way is to look up an album cover in a JPG from the internet, change the file name to FOLDER and manually place it in an album folder BEFORE the whole album is uploaded to a UnitiServe or NAS

 

Re (b)

  • Yes - what you describe is a file layout on your server
  • UnitiServe (or any other UPnP server) is essentially a way of interpreting files on a server and presenting them to a user in a logical way. It relies on metadata to organise the presentation and pretty much ignores a filing structure.
  • So if one of the files, that is 'physically' placed in an album folder of say Artist X, is actually tagged as Artist Y, UnitiServe will ignore it. It will do it because it rightly sees that a track by Artits Y does not 'belong' to Artist X
  • That is why good metadata hygiene is paramount when handling large amounts of data / music files
  • If you decide to use Metadatics to edit any album's metadata, files have to be edited OUTSIDE of the UntiServe. The best way to do it is on a computer, before uploading the files to a server.

 

Re NAS backup

  • Have you designated a SHARE on your NAS as a BACKUP folder?

 

I'm not a US user,  but can't you remove the .pdf booklet. ???   its serving no purpose in the US other than taking up space.   When I get a download with a .pdf,  I remove it before I upload to NAS & store it in my laptop.   Then if I want to read it,  & that tends to be once only,  its easily accessible.    

Hungryhalibut posted:

Adam's third bullet under b above is odd. If an album is filed under X but the artist is called 'cabbage', it will show as cabbage in the Naim app regardless. The filing system and metadata are unrelated. 

Of course it will.
Provided 'Cabbage' is an album name. But if it's sorted by Artis X, it should skip Artist Y.
That's what I was trying to say - it may sort Ok under some 'views' and incorrectly under different ones - depending on which tag is being used for sorting.

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