I want Qobuz integration!

Does anyone know if Qobuz wil be integrated into the Naim software for streaming with my N272.

Before I used Qobuz with my Bluesound box, but now I have to use Tidal....., a lot of rap music etc, but I really mis the real Qobuz music passion!!!!

Come on Naim, as a serious music lover,  please integrate Qobuz in your application!!

Original Post

The simple answer is no. It will not be integrated into the streaming software for what Naim call ‘legacy products’. You can get it using google cast on the new Uniti boxes, so it’s probaby reasonable to assume that a 272 replacement with the new streaming platform on board would be able to get Qobuz using google cast. Whether google cast sounds as good as full integration I’ve no idea. But none of that helps us now. I’d love to have Qobuz on my 272, just like you. 

Henk Molenaar posted:

Come on Naim, as a serious music lover,  please integrate Qobuz in your application!!

You can't access it directly ... but (as I recall, I don't use Qobuz) you can gain full access by...

1) Install BubbleUPnPServer software on your NAS or a computer on your network which is always / usually available.

2) Set up BubbleUPnPServer to provide a "proxy" OpenHome compatible renderer from your Naim streamer.

3) Download the Linn Kazoo app (iirc the Lumin app is an alternative).

4) Put your Qobuz credentials into the Linn app.

5) Enjoy Qobuz (almost) direct to your Naim streamer.

Dear Qobuz lovers....

All your replys makes me a bit angry......because your suggestions are all work arounds to receive Qobuz...I don't like work arounds after buying an expensive serious streamer!!! I think there are other (personal, commercial, strategic? ) reasons why Qobuz is not integrated into the streaming software....which is a pitty because Qobuz is serious player into the (high-res!) streaming world.

Of course it costs (a lot of) money to integrate Qobuz, but (for music lovers) maybe putting money in Qobuz is more reasonable than sponsoring Bentley........but who am I.........

But thank you anyway for your replys!

 

 

Hello Henk,

you have bought your naim device without qobuz support. Why do you think it should be enhanced by supporting qobuz for free? If naim would do it, it would be great. But if you buy a car, no features will be integrated afterwards, too.

Greetings
Gert

Hallo Gert,

In my opinion the answer why Naim should implement Qobuz is simple.......They do have a lot of Europeeen customers who like Qobuz.......so if Naim wants to sell streamers which are really plug and play, so ready to use with all serious streaming services with no "work arounds and trics" to be implemented before listening...... I live near Toulouse in France, for our Naim dealer in Toulouse it's bad to say to potential new Naim customers that Qobuz is not implemented.......... And finally some people will choose for another hi-end provider which is a pitty, because Naim is sooooo goooooddddd......... 

But maybe, there are serious reasons for Naim to decide which I have to accept.....and as a Naim fan, I will................. 

Richard Dane posted:

Just to clarify, as a Bentley partner, Naim are a sponsor for Bentley's GT3 race team.  The music played in the pit garage and hospitality usually comes from a Mu-So or two (or three).  It is a small but important part of Naim's ongoing relationship with Bentley.

Naim for Bentley

Yes but do the race team want to listen to Qobuz?

Henk Molenaar posted:

Hallo Gert,

In my opinion the answer why Naim should implement Qobuz is simple.......They do have a lot of Europeeen customers who like Qobuz.......so if Naim wants to sell streamers which are really plug and play, so ready to use with all serious streaming services with no "work arounds and trics" to be implemented before listening...... I live near Toulouse in France, for our Naim dealer in Toulouse it's bad to say to potential new Naim customers that Qobuz is not implemented.......... And finally some people will choose for another hi-end provider which is a pitty, because Naim is sooooo goooooddddd......... 

But maybe, there are serious reasons for Naim to decide which I have to accept.....and as a Naim fan, I will................. 

And the impression I have is that there a a lot of customers in Britain who would like it (N.B. they are European, too!)

But I assume there are good reasons for not implementing, or limitations to being able to. However, and interestingly, Audirvana, which I use as renderer, integrates both Qobuz and Tidal, so Naim's integration of one but not the other in some products seems a bit odd - but where neither is integrated it is conceivable that it could be due to hardware limitations of the platform.

From a different angle, online streaming is inherently at risk of greater compromise to sound quality than streaming from one's own local store, and I have read criticisms of the Qobuz sound quality from people who have used it, not sounding as good as the same files downloaded - much as there are with Tidal. 

Acceptance may be easy since streaming Qobuz via a Naim renderer is even easier to accomplish than already mentioned above by Eloise. 

It is two steps away only: just download the Bubble app - for Android in my case - choose your Naim as your renderer, go to Local storage - Cloud - Qobuz and enter your username and password for Qobuz and you are ready to go...

Is that not easy enough? 

Thanks for reply!

The sound quality of streaming is pretty good from Qobuz and Tidal (no difference noticed), after streaming / listening the cd several times I decide if I buy and download the HI_RES version of the cd from the Qobuz side to my MELCO N1A.   And to be honnest:  that sounds even beter!!! 

Bubble up or other third party stuff is not my piece of cake...., I simply use the Naim app, works perfect in combination with my Melco an N272....

 

Enjoy weekend!!

 

 

Innocent Bystander posted:
Henk Molenaar posted:

Hallo Gert,

In my opinion the answer why Naim should implement Qobuz is simple.......They do have a lot of Europeeen customers who like Qobuz.......so if Naim wants to sell streamers which are really plug and play, so ready to use with all serious streaming services with no "work arounds and trics" to be implemented before listening...... I live near Toulouse in France, for our Naim dealer in Toulouse it's bad to say to potential new Naim customers that Qobuz is not implemented.......... And finally some people will choose for another hi-end provider which is a pitty, because Naim is sooooo goooooddddd......... 

But maybe, there are serious reasons for Naim to decide which I have to accept.....and as a Naim fan, I will................. 

And the impression I have is that there a a lot of customers in Britain who would like it (N.B. they are European, too!)

But I assume there are good reasons for not implementing, or limitations to being able to. However, and interestingly, Audirvana, which I use as renderer, integrates both Qobuz and Tidal, so Naim's integration of one but not the other in some products seems a bit odd - but where neither is integrated it is conceivable that it could be due to hardware limitations of the platform.

From a different angle, online streaming is inherently at risk of greater compromise to sound quality than streaming from one's own local store, and I have read criticisms of the Qobuz sound quality from people who have used it, not sounding as good as the same files downloaded - much as there are with Tidal. 

I wonder if that sound quality difference perceived between online streaming and local store is due to flac files vs. wav files?

cat345 posted:
Innocent Bystander posted:

 

From a different angle, online streaming is inherently at risk of greater compromise to sound quality than streaming from one's own local store, and I have read criticisms of the Qobuz sound quality from people who have used it, not sounding as good as the same files downloaded - much as there are with Tidal. 

I wonder if that sound quality difference perceived between online streaming and local store is due to flac files vs. wav files?

That is rather a different subject: in this case I think it is primarily to do with the process of real-time data streaming across a very complicated network, which is what the internet represents - but others with greater technical knowledge of the processes will be better able to explain than I.

Earlier this year I heard a track I am very familiar with, being played via a high quality streaming service - it's one I have used for years while I worked at the factory for Naim for evaluation of bits of kit - through a big active Naim system (speakers not Naim).  Frankly, it was a bit disappointing.  It was superficially impressive but also a bit grainy and obviously not realistic - realism is something that this recording does well.  Just a bit papery, like it was a later generation copy. I'm most used to playing this track via CD or ripped FLAC or WAV file. The electronics I knew pretty well, so it was either the speakers (possible but unlikely as they are getting some great reviews on here) or it was the online streaming service source.  

Richard Dane posted:

I'm most used to playing this track via CD or ripped FLAC or WAV file. The electronics I knew pretty well, so it was either the speakers (possible but unlikely as they are getting some great reviews on here) or it was the online streaming service source.  

Someone might know the answer to this ... but do Tidal (and Qobuz) etc. use "ripped CDs" or do they (like Apple for iTunes Store and presumably Apple Music) get High Res copies which are then downsampled as required?  In other words, could the difference be mastering rather then CD vs Streaming?

Or, if that's the case, could it be downsampling?  Or was it just a bad apple - a poor source file.  Who knows?  I can't test further as I can't stream audio reliably over the 'net here thanks to being in the countryside with a rubbish local infrastructure (still old aluminium cables etc..).

I have found significant sound differences when streaming Tidal and Qobuz depending on which album you choose. Multiple versions of the same file can be found in different albums. Usually, compilations or 'the best of..' do not sound as good so downsampling and mastering could be the culprit.

Now you are talking!

For me Naim's choise of streaming providers is a mystery.............Qobuz is one of the most serious and enthousiastic and passionated  streaming providers with a good internet side with interesting information and tests and not to forget a lot of 24 bits HIGH RES cd's for sale.......and that where it is all about isn't it...........

Yes, but Qobuz is very European, while Tidal is more worldwide. I don’t really think it’s worth getting very excited about any of these streaming services. The sound quality fallls well short of music streamed from a server, and to my mind it’s a waste of a Naim system to have either Tidal or Qobuz as a prime source. They are great for exploration and checking out things before you buy, but for serious listening, they are a non starter. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Yes, but Qobuz is very European, while Tidal is more worldwide. I don’t really think it’s worth getting very excited about any of these streaming services. The sound quality fallls well short of music streamed from a server, and to my mind it’s a waste of a Naim system to have either Tidal or Qobuz as a prime source. They are great for exploration and checking out things before you buy, but for serious listening, they are a non starter. 

I'd disagree, i find Tidal superb (I download the majority of what I listen to regularly) and not lacking anything compared to my lossless ripped and bought files playing from the USB port.

Add to that the shear convenience and portability.

Gazza posted:

I think Simon in Suffolk has commented in the past that at busy network times, early evening etc, sound quality can be affected, I have also noticed this.

Thanks Gazza, yes with Naim streamers (though can’t comment on new Uniti architecture) are prone to subtle sound degradation when the network stack works harder. Streaming over the internet does tend to mean the stack works harder.. however using a local media proxy as outlined above alleviates such issues.... however as I have found different media servers sound different with Naim streamers, and on inspection the sonic differences can be linked to network interframe timing.

i also agree Tidal can sound like local streaming, just unfortunately not all the time... I use a Tidal quite a lot for classical music replay and rarer EPs.. I am sure it’s great for rap as well it suites your tastes but I never venture there

Simon

Obsydian posted:
Hungryhalibut posted:

Yes, but Qobuz is very European, while Tidal is more worldwide. I don’t really think it’s worth getting very excited about any of these streaming services. The sound quality fallls well short of music streamed from a server, and to my mind it’s a waste of a Naim system to have either Tidal or Qobuz as a prime source. They are great for exploration and checking out things before you buy, but for serious listening, they are a non starter. 

I'd disagree, i find Tidal superb (I download the majority of what I listen to regularly) and not lacking anything compared to my lossless ripped and bought files playing from the USB port..

Apart from people's ears discerning things differently, it clearly depends on the rest of the system including room)

Henk Molenaar posted:

Now you are talking!

For me Naim's choise of streaming providers is a mystery.............Qobuz is one of the most serious and enthousiastic and passionated  streaming providers with a good internet side with interesting information and tests and not to forget a lot of 24 bits HIGH RES cd's for sale.......and that where it is all about isn't it...........

I buy from them (downloads not CDs), but have no interst in streaming. To check  out possible new music I find the likes of Spotisy, uTube, and artists' samples quite usable.

Henk Molenaar posted:

Does anyone know if Qobuz wil be integrated into the Naim software for streaming with my N272.

Before I used Qobuz with my Bluesound box, but now I have to use Tidal....., a lot of rap music etc, but I really mis the real Qobuz music passion!!!!

Come on Naim, as a serious music lover,  please integrate Qobuz in your application!!

Henk, I don’t know about Qobuz music passion, but my customer experience has been awful, in respect of downloads. When things go wrong, which they often do, the response is pathetic. There would appear to be no customer support at weekends, which is probably when most of us need it, and the arrogance when they finally communicate is unparalleled. HDtracks has, by comparison, a perfect interface to the customer. By that I mean that one never needs to contact them, because it just works!

It's a pity to hear about the the bad customer experience, I always use the Qobuz downloader which works fine for me.  Maybe the English language is still a problem for the Qobuz helpdesk?........but I also like HighResAudio to download cd's, works fine, and I can live with Tidal and ofcourse with my private Melco with my own preferred music and don't forget to listen (and sponsor....) to Radio Paradise during the day, they do a super music job!!!  

Enjoy weekend!!

Timo posted:

I have to agree with Henk -- it is a mystery to me why one wouldn't support the only streaming service that offers hi-res music... Instead of Waitrose streaming quality, we get the Aldi of streaming -- Spotify...  

I thought Tidal streams hi-res music too with an appropriate plan?

I too would love Qobuz integrated - mainly as I really want to upgrade to Sublime+ but as I cannot easily get gapless playback without purchasing and playing locally from a NAS I'm reluctant to do so.

I'm probably spending more purchasing hi-res audio from them than that upgrade would cost but at least I get what I want that way without extra apps on iOS/mac OS which don't help anyway (I cannot do gapless to a Nova using Audirvana).

I think HH may be correct that we're best using streaming for auditioning audio where absolute quality doesn't matter and buy those and stream locally from a solid performing NAS or computer.

We have to remember that not so long ago Qobuz was in administration until Xandrie invested heavily in it, so they may be struggling to strike up partnerships if hardware manufacturers don't want to risk a service going under after they invest time supporting it.

If the Qobuz app on mac OS/iOS  supported  UPnP playback of cached non-purchased audio that would be a real plus as I don't like Airplay.

Hello Alley Cat,

if you are purchasing so many hires albums the sublim abo might be interesting even without using streaming. Many albums are 3 or more € cheaper for abo subscribers. Some boxes 10 to 20€ or more.

So if you are interested in streaming, it might be only a small additional charge for the abo than you spend money today.

Gert

Qobuz is very part of European. It never made is way to Denamrk, even though it was announced 3 or 4 years ago. Qobuz also seems to be good at being at the brink of bankrupcy from time to time, so not a player you as a company want to invest a lot of money in with expensive integration. Unless you are using the old server platforms there are ways to get Qobuz working on both the old and new streaming platform, and if you want Qobuz it is clear that it is not natively supported when you go out and by a Naim streamer of any sort.  

Claus

gert posted:

Hello Alley Cat,

if you are purchasing so many hires albums the sublim abo might be interesting even without using streaming. Many albums are 3 or more € cheaper for abo subscribers. Some boxes 10 to 20€ or more.

So if you are interested in streaming, it might be only a small additional charge for the abo than you spend money today.

Gert

Thanks Gert

I've had the basic Sublime since it came out - the discounts are significant as you suggest, on most but not all titles.

Not sure if I'm on some kind of legacy annual rate offer but my renewal is about £60 less than for a new Sublime member, however upgrade to Sublime + would cost the difference between what I pay currently and a full Sublime+ membership so I'd potentially lose that annual discount it seems.

Qobuz could do with a family subscription too I feel.

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

Qobuz is very part of European. It never made is way to Denamrk, even though it was announced 3 or 4 years ago. Qobuz also seems to be good at being at the brink of bankrupcy from time to time, so not a player you as a company want to invest a lot of money in with expensive integration. Unless you are using the old server platforms there are ways to get Qobuz working on both the old and new streaming platform, and if you want Qobuz it is clear that it is not natively supported when you go out and by a Naim streamer of any sort.  

Claus

I think Xandrie seems to have given a fair financial backing to Qobuz - the problem is we don't know how well it's doing and if the owners think it's not doing well enough they could pull the plug on the financial backing.

One thing regarding the administration situation 2 years ago before they were bought by Xandrie is it seems they had kept funds from annual Sublime subscriptions somehow separate and would have been in a position to refund customers to some extent.  Glad it never came to that.

Obsydian posted:
Hungryhalibut posted:

Yes, but Qobuz is very European, while Tidal is more worldwide. I don’t really think it’s worth getting very excited about any of these streaming services. The sound quality fallls well short of music streamed from a server, and to my mind it’s a waste of a Naim system to have either Tidal or Qobuz as a prime source. They are great for exploration and checking out things before you buy, but for serious listening, they are a non starter. 

I'd disagree, i find Tidal superb (I download the majority of what I listen to regularly) and not lacking anything compared to my lossless ripped and bought files playing from the USB port.

Add to that the shear convenience and portability.

This is my experience as well. Tidal sounds great and indistinguishable from local rips to my ears.

That being said I too would love to have Qobuz integrated on my NDX. Several vendors offer both Qobuz and Tidal (Burmester, T+A) in their streaming solutions but they are indeed continental European ones.

But somehow the experience with Tidal Integration (vs Spotify which is effectively an add on) has been painful for NAIM and most likely a deterrent for similar endeavors with others like Qobuz.  

 

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