If you have a Naim NDS what Ethernet wire do you use?

ken c posted:
Gandalf_fi posted:
greekspec2 posted:
Gandalf_fi posted:

NAS-Switch Vodka, Switch-NDS Diamond. There is difference between Vodka & Diamond expecially in bass & black background area but Vodka upgrade makes more VFM. I could not return Diamond  

for me it's a few hundred dollar difference in price, do you recommend me getting the Diamond cable and returning the Vodka cable?

Like I said the biggest difference comes with Vodka. It depends from your setup e.g. lan, used power supplies, speakers how Diamond is impacting. In my case the difference is easy to notice. Many NDS owners have a pretty expensive systems so I definitely recommend Diamond, on sound vise. Somehow it is funny that systen could cost 30k£ but people are referring here how they can save money with 7,99£ cable & it is the best. I have tried C-stream (it is good) & many others bulk CAT 6/7 as well. However, AQ sound is different & some might not like it. I changed speakers some time ago so will do AQ vs. C-stream cross check once again.

just to be clear, i didnt settle on Roline to save money. i tried quite a few very expensive alternatives (including AQ) and was happiest, SQ-wise, with the Roline.

enjoy...

ken

Sounds like a win-win to me Ken.

Regards

Nigel

If you believe the NDS will benefit from cables that are better quality you should first try switching from the cheap cables you normally get for free with equipment a premium 600mhz Cat 7 cable. speced (which in ethernet terms means lower crosstalk, better shielding etc). These fancy cables don’t have any advantage or better shielding than CAT 7 can offer. Vandesail offers them in a variety of lengths and they are going to set you back between 8 and 25 USD or 7-20 pounds. These are well constructed, well shielded and would venture to guess as good as any of these fanciful attempts at re-inventing the wheel. SNASHI makes a braided cat 7 cable for a similar price point if one wants the nylon braiding.

> On Oct 5, 2016, at 10:22 AM, Naim Audio Forums <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:
>
ken c posted:
Gandalf_fi posted:
greekspec2 posted:
Gandalf_fi posted:

NAS-Switch Vodka, Switch-NDS Diamond. There is difference between Vodka & Diamond expecially in bass & black background area but Vodka upgrade makes more VFM. I could not return Diamond  

for me it's a few hundred dollar difference in price, do you recommend me getting the Diamond cable and returning the Vodka cable?

Like I said the biggest difference comes with Vodka. It depends from your setup e.g. lan, used power supplies, speakers how Diamond is impacting. In my case the difference is easy to notice. Many NDS owners have a pretty expensive systems so I definitely recommend Diamond, on sound vise. Somehow it is funny that systen could cost 30k£ but people are referring here how they can save money with 7,99£ cable & it is the best. I have tried C-stream (it is good) & many others bulk CAT 6/7 as well. However, AQ sound is different & some might not like it. I changed speakers some time ago so will do AQ vs. C-stream cross check once again.

just to be clear, i didnt settle on Roline to save money. i tried quite a few very expensive alternatives (including AQ) and was happiest, SQ-wise, with the Roline.

enjoy...

ken

That is great Ken!

Huge posted:
ChrisH posted:
Hungryhalibut posted:

Look at that chunky metal plug. Marvel at the robust metal clip - no manky plastic here! Look at the sexy braiding. It's simply got to be worth £300. I really don't see how anyone can doubt it. 

 

Compared to the Cinammon, the cable is about twice the thickness for starters, let alone the chunky plug with extra supplied plug protector that it comes with.

As you say HH, it simply must be worth that much

Now take the Chord Sarum: Pound for pound, it's more expensive than gold, so it has to exceed the gold standard doesn't it!

Yeah Chord Sarum is just too pricey to consider. I am sure it sounds very good especially if you have Chord Sarum in your system already. But it is around $2500 a meter here in the States. Not looking to spend that kind of money! 

Hungryhalibut posted:
greekspec2 posted:
Gandalf_fi posted:

NAS-Switch Vodka, Switch-NDS Diamond. There is difference between Vodka & Diamond expecially in bass & black background area but Vodka upgrade makes more VFM. I could not return Diamond  

for me it's a few hundred dollar difference in price, do you recommend me getting the Diamond cable and returning the Vodka cable?

I've said it before and at the risk of becoming even more boring than usual, I'll say it again: a power supply for your 272 will make far more of a difference than a thousand posh Ethernet cables. These cables are fine tuning, and not a substitute for getting the fundamentals right - well matched boxes, good supports and a decent mains supply. The idea of buying Audioquest Diamond before putting an XPS or 555PS on a 272 shows how priorities can become distorted. 

as for main like I said prior it's not my house so I can't do anything there but, it was built in 2011 so everything is new, I have a Hubbell HBL5262R wall duplex, Wiremold PS with Wattgate 5266i plug, Powerlines on my 300DR & N272, AQ Vodka patch cable, SuperLumina SL, AQ Vodka toslink, AQ Vodka HDMI, no Fraim because I'm limited to space and 555DR PS on order

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:
musicfan51 posted:

And what would recommend that is better sounding?  Thanks 

I believe the forum member I was referring to is now using a Synology NAS with MinimServer loaded on it

S

I can look into that. Though the Naim and a synology NAS I have r very good! 

Though of course this thread is really about is if you have an upper end streamer, what Ethernet cables do you use! It has been a nice discussion and I was glad to find out what people with Naim streamers were  using ! 

 

greekspec2 posted:
Hungryhalibut posted:
greekspec2 posted:
Gandalf_fi posted:

NAS-Switch Vodka, Switch-NDS Diamond. There is difference between Vodka & Diamond expecially in bass & black background area but Vodka upgrade makes more VFM. I could not return Diamond  

for me it's a few hundred dollar difference in price, do you recommend me getting the Diamond cable and returning the Vodka cable?

I've said it before and at the risk of becoming even more boring than usual, I'll say it again: a power supply for your 272 will make far more of a difference than a thousand posh Ethernet cables. These cables are fine tuning, and not a substitute for getting the fundamentals right - well matched boxes, good supports and a decent mains supply. The idea of buying Audioquest Diamond before putting an XPS or 555PS on a 272 shows how priorities can become distorted. 

as for main like I said prior it's not my house so I can't do anything there but, it was built in 2011 so everything is new, I have a Hubbell HBL5262R wall duplex, Wiremold PS with Wattgate 5266i plug, Powerlines on my 300DR & N272, AQ Vodka patch cable, SuperLumina SL, AQ Vodka toslink, AQ Vodka HDMI, no Fraim because I'm limited to space and 555DR PS on order

I can remember for years arguments that no way power cords can make a difference in sound! Now it is much more acceptable. I thought they did myself, early on. 

Emre posted:

Let me ask you a question?

Does it make sense to use nas to melco cat7 and then diamond ?

Is it the last part more important?

Then makes sense to buy melco instead a long diamond nas-streamer

Is my logic Wrong? 

Hard to know unless you try it!  With power cords we do that . 

Expensive ethernet cables are making melco a good deal, I can put on the rack without contaminating my electric and can use a short patch of diamond

or use a nas with a power supply with a decent and long cat7 belden cable with a telegartner rj45 connector with a fraction of the price

2 good options different cost

Any expert opinion ? Experience?

KRM posted:

Tomorrow the Netgear GS305 and iFi iPower should arrive.

The Netgear GS305 will kill all the concerns about too many ethernet grounds as it does not carry the screen with its UTP ports.    So join up your Vodka's & celebrate,  CHEERS  I'll take mine at sub-zero - straight.   

musicfan51 posted:

That is my thought too! I  thought of buying AQ Vodka Ethernet and replace my Cinnamon ! I tried Cinnamon just to see if it made a difference! And it did. So I'd like to go up one step. Can always return them to Best Buy if not happy! 

I've ordered custom AQ Cat700 Carbon Ethernet cables from BestBuy also

musicfan51 posted:

Has anyone on here heard a telegartner with rj45 connector?  

Most probably it is the same thing and costs about 15€ per connector.

Add a 2€ per metre cat7 belden cable

These are good brands doing quality products not the el cheapo stuff

 

musicfan51 posted:
Hungryhalibut posted:

Isn't that what's on an Audioquest Vodka?

I thought it as a particular Ethernet cable?  But it is just the connector we are talking about. Yeah I think that is the connector on the Audioquest Vodka . 

And diamond I guess, most likely exact the Same! 

I've had a response from AQ confirming that "shielding is only connected at one end to prevent any ground loops". The cables were redesigned following feedback from manufacturers such as Naim soon after their introduction. This was indeed the reason why they exchanged mine. However, it shouldn't be an issue with a well designed switch.

Keith

But ground loops don't affect Ethernet leads... it's a myth .. carried over perhaps from induced ground loop currents in unbalanced audio leads...   Ethernet i10/100/1000BaseT is galvanically isolated and uses balanced pairs..  We don't worry about ground loops from the earth cable in our ring mains do we?

What would be more valuable is to understand from the cable manufacturer is which end to bond to ground if one end is deliberately left disconnected.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

What would be more valuable is to understand from the cable manufacturer is which end to bond to ground if one end is deliberately left disconnected.

Absolutely !!  this is yet more confusion from AQ,  I suppose this is S/U/TP.   

Mike-B posted:
Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

What would be more valuable is to understand from the cable manufacturer is which end to bond to ground if one end is deliberately left disconnected.

Absolutely !!  this is yet more confusion from AQ,  I suppose this is S/U/TP.   

What does that mean?

KRM posted:

Hi Simon,

Why would that be useful?

Hi Keith - to my way of thinking  if you want to try and keep induced ground currents in the shield from conducting through  the ground of your connected equipment - you want to know which way around to connect the ethernet cable... also if your equipment uses non earthed RJ45 sockets then there is no point connecting the earth end of the cable socket to it - if you want to earth the screen - as effectively it will be floating... unless you want it floating...

S

AQ told me that because the Vodka does not have a floating earth I should continue to use the Lindy plastic adaptor. But they have said to Keith that the shielding is only connected at one end, which presumably means that the floating earth question I asked was irrelevant. 

This is the problem of not knowing what I'm talking about of course. But do we think I can dispense with the Lindy, which I have attached to the Qnap?

KRM posted:

What does that mean?

There is no standard that I know of for ethernet with a one ended floating screen,  its either no screen,  a screen connected at both ends or a fully floating (unconnected) screen.

As Simon posted it would be useful to know which end is connected & floating.   In your case with the GS305 its does not mean much other that if the connected end is into your NDS, then the screen goes as far as the switch & thats useful,  if its connected with the floating end to the NDS then the screen is fully floating & I'm undecided on how useful that might be.   Then the reverse might be true when connecting to the NAS or US..... 

Also does this half screen method apply to Cinnamon,  it does'nt with Pearl as I've just checked one that I have.   

Then as per HH (Nigel),  his post says AQ emailed him saying it does not have a floating screen

Hungryhalibut posted:

AQ told me that because the Vodka does not have a floating earth I should continue to use the Lindy plastic adaptor. But they have said to Keith that the shielding is only connected at one end, which presumably means that the floating earth question I asked was irrelevant. 

This is the problem of not knowing what I'm talking about of course. But do we think I can dispense with the Lindy, which I have attached to the Qnap?

It won't break anything Nigel. Home networks are so much easier if you don't bother with screened ethernet cables and then you don't need to worry about these issues which seem to cause a lot of confusion and forum bandwidth. 

Single or multiple earth points on Ethernet home networks (i.e. where only 1 connection exists from the building to the mains distribution supply) do not affect the operation of the network.  Multiple earth points only become significant in large installations with multiple mains supplies which could be on different phases or otherwise have significantly different earth potentials.

So from a home network operational perspective, there's no problem (industrial networks are a different situation).


However our networks are (usually) connected to the earth point of sensitive analogue electronics, and so just like avoiding earth loops in signal cables we need to have just one earth point in the system (analogue and digital).  This has nothing to do with the network (and everything to do with the analogue audio circuitry to which it's connected).

If those cables make a difference ) clearly yes without any doubt. I don't have the knowledge for any explanation but these differences exist. I tried few of them, specially the Audioquest wth a good compromise with the cinnamon - i am "full loom" with them NAS - Switch - Wall - Streamer. Great result !

I experienced the Vodka but at that time on my system, it was too much.

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