In praise of 272/250DR

kevin J Carden posted:
Dan43 posted:

272/250DR here, got first deliveries back when. Feeding Sopra 2 with Melco N1A providing the 24bit files in Direct Stream mode. NACA5, but might try TQ black or black ultra next SC and IC, tried SL didn't feel the force really. Might play silly and try some stillpoints next.

Do you have the system on a Fraim Dan? I don't know how much of the magic I heard was due to the boxes being on Fraim, but maybe worth trying if your wallet has itchy fingers..

TQ Blue speaker cable was in use during my demo. Sounded good.

I did have a Fraim but have sold it on since. Quite interested in the still points as the reviews do seem very good, but with my eyes wide open to the usual witchcraft that can infiltrate, so I trust my own ears and will try then, why not.

Have avoided the XPSDR or 555PS upgrade, SL cables didn't do much for me in the end (price a factor also) so to PSU upgrade.

Although the price of a 272/XPSDR/555PS is Chord DAVE territory almost, which I am demoing soon into the 250DR to see what gives there.

Slim68 posted:

My 272, 200 and S-400's are sounding wonderful. I know one day i'll look at the 250dr or XPS-Dr but I am in no hurry.

+1. I have exact the same configuration as you, Slim68. Hoping in the future to come across an nice SH 250DR or XPS-DR.

Regards, Jeroen.

Max_B posted:
Chris Bell posted:

If I were ever to downgrade (and I have thought about it) I'd do the 272/250DR combo.  Simple two box hi-fi solution.  

Nothing personal Chris, but it's extraordinary how many people consider 272/250DR a two box solution when it still needs a source.

I mean, either one has all his music on a NAS, a USB drive, a Mac or a PC, or whatever, with just 272/250DR he won't hear a single note.

I have a CDX2 and a Supernait. This is a two box solution.

My kindest regards

M

Ah! but then you need a storage box for all those CDs, so that's at least a 3 box solution!

kevin J Carden posted:
Dan43 posted:

272/250DR here, got first deliveries back when. Feeding Sopra 2 with Melco N1A providing the 24bit files in Direct Stream mode. NACA5, but might try TQ black or black ultra next SC and IC, tried SL didn't feel the force really. Might play silly and try some stillpoints next.

Do you have the system on a Fraim Dan? I don't know how much of the magic I heard was due to the boxes being on Fraim, but maybe worth trying if your wallet has itchy fingers..

TQ Blue speaker cable was in use during my demo. Sounded good.

My 272 sits on an Ikea unit with an Atacama sorbothane footed support under the 272. This works a treat. I never used it under the CDS3.or NDX as it killed the sound, but under the 272 it works very well.

G

Graeme, you may already be aware, but just in case - sorbothane can discolour wood veneers.  So best to make sure the feet aren't directly in contact with the Ikea unit.  I use something similar (at least on and off, when I'm not trying to figure out the problem with my system) and just cut out some thin plastic discs (from bin bags, no less!) to put under the feet.  They're invisible in use, but prevent the pads touching the furniture.

Dave***t posted:

Graeme, you may already be aware, but just in case - sorbothane can discolour wood veneers.  So best to make sure the feet aren't directly in contact with the Ikea unit.  I use something similar (at least on and off, when I'm not trying to figure out the problem with my system) and just cut out some thin plastic discs (from bin bags, no less!) to put under the feet.  They're invisible in use, but prevent the pads touching the furniture.

Thanks for the advice.

G

Timo posted:
Max_B posted:
Chris Bell posted:

If I were ever to downgrade (and I have thought about it) I'd do the 272/250DR combo.  Simple two box hi-fi solution.  

Nothing personal Chris, but it's extraordinary how many people consider 272/250DR a two box solution when it still needs a source.

I mean, either one has all his music on a NAS, a USB drive, a Mac or a PC, or whatever, with just 272/250DR he won't hear a single note.

I have a CDX2 and a Supernait. This is a two box solution.

My kindest regards

M

Rather bizarre reasoning....

I don't know...(1 + 1) +1 has equaled 3 for along time...

Hungryhalibut posted:
I love this damning with faint praise 'for a hybridI love this damning with faint praise 'for a hybrid'....

 Bit confused by this Nigel - who is doing the damning? If you are referring to me - far from it.. Naim have been keen to develop and improve their integrated and hybrid performances. Yes they will tell you when you discuss the matter with the product designers and have had presented the marketing slides to you that the top performance is with the decoupled units - however they have really started to push what they feel is possible with combining functions  - and this is seen with what they learned with the N-Series hybrid streamer pre-amps and more recently the new Uniti series.  The N272 has been a huge seller for Naim and so they are spurred on I'm sure.  Although no one in Naim said this to me - but my words are the gap could be closing.

Monkadill posted:

I'm not sure if its a coincidence but raising my Burndy cable  off the ground, the bass has come to life! 

Couldn't be happier with my N272/250DR/XPSDR

Absolutely makes a difference not having either the Bundy or interconnects resting on the floor or touching any surface (or each other). It is not subtle and I do scratch my head wondering why it makes such a difference

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:
Hungryhalibut posted:
I love this damning with faint praise 'for a hybridI love this damning with faint praise 'for a hybrid'....

 Bit confused by this Nigel - who is doing the damning? If you are referring to me - far from it.. Naim have been keen to develop and improve their integrated and hybrid performances. Yes they will tell you when you discuss the matter with the product designers and have had presented the marketing slides to you that the top performance is with the decoupled units - however they have really started to push what they feel is possible with combining functions  - and this is seen with what they learned with the N-Series hybrid streamer pre-amps and more recently the new Uniti series.  The N272 has been a huge seller for Naim and so they are spurred on I'm sure.  Although no one in Naim said this to me - but my words are the gap could be closing.

It will be good if they can achieve this for those of us who do not want their homes dominated by boxes.  As I understand it they will be differentiating the Uniti range performance from the Classic range performance by, amongst other things, not using the 009 transistors. However if the new Uniti's sound as fine as you and others are suggesting then hopefully this will mean the upgrades to the Classic series will also provide a significant performance boost.

202 to 282

"more control" "more PRat" These descriptions put me off

1.I don't want more control it kill musicality, ears are king. Unless you got a wet splashy vinyl rig. Digital NEVER wanted more control, that's why you ******* hate digital.  Listen to a cheap Technics CD player from the 90's and you might throw away "one of the best players in the world", dream on. I bough5 it and l know.

2.More PRat ,there is no reason under the sun why one has more than the other including price,utter bull.

A member has already stated its not a day and night difference but £2000 to £4000 is.

l will stick to my own judgement and say my NAPC2 is on sale, l hear it as a killer of the lucid excellent sound of 292/200. lve hidden behind the sofa for protection.!!!!

 

Huge posted:
FenderStratman52 posted:

I want to know which is lusher ,warmer the 282 or 252? if l get the right answers that's my next upgrade. 202/200 man

I totally fail to see the relevance of this to the quality of the 272/250DR pairing!

I was asking an advice question nothing to do with your pairing, l like lusher better than leaner . l have heard this pairing 272/250DR recently in a dealer demo . l also heard it with an added latest XPS2.

hope that clears up the misunderstanding

George

FenderStratman52 posted:
Huge posted:
FenderStratman52 posted:

I want to know which is lusher ,warmer the 282 or 252? if l get the right answers that's my next upgrade. 202/200 man

I totally fail to see the relevance of this to the quality of the 272/250DR pairing!

I was asking an advice question nothing to do with your pairing, l like lusher better than leaner . l have heard this pairing 272/250DR recently in a dealer demo . l also heard it with an added latest XPS2.

hope that clears up the misunderstanding

George

OK.

It just probably would have been better to ask that on the 200 to 282 upgrade thread rather than the 272 / 250DR thread.  

I'm worried that the technology inside a 272 could become stagnant as without a digital out to bypass the 272's internal dac it does become a 2 or 3 box final solution as far as I can see which is fine if you are happy to live with that sound forever.  The beauty of a digital sound is that it is a constantly improving technology at a point not so long ago mp3 was considered to be cutting edge,  the dac's now produced by Chord, Naim and others are at a level unheard even five years ago, my humble ND5XS has been transformed with the addition of Chord Dac as would the 272 I'm sure if this additon were possible.  The 272 is a fantastic modern approach to HiFi and will no doubt be expanded upon and improved as the years pass but and this is a big but for me those improvements will not be available to ownwers of the 272. 

ChrisSU posted:
Bob the Builder posted:

not so long ago mp3 was considered to be cutting edge

1987 - The Fraunhofer Institut in Germany began research code-named EUREKA project EU147, Digital Audio Broadcasting (DAB).
January 1988 - Moving Picture Experts Group or MPEG was established as a subcommittee of the International Standards Organization/International Electrotechnical Commission or ISO/IEC.
April 1989 - Fraunhofer received a German patent for MP3.1992 -

Fraunhofer's and Dieter Seitzer’s audio coding algorithm was integrated into MPEG-1.
1993 - MPEG-1 standard published.
1994 - MPEG-2 developed and published a year later.

Cutting Edge enough for you? Might not sound great now but the compression of music files and its implications back then were indeed cutting edge. 

Bob the Builder posted:

I'm worried that the technology inside a 272 could become stagnant as without a digital out to bypass the 272's internal dac it does become a 2 or 3 box final solution as far as I can see which is fine if you are happy to live with that sound forever.  The beauty of a digital sound is that it is a constantly improving technology at a point not so long ago mp3 was considered to be cutting edge,  the dac's now produced by Chord, Naim and others are at a level unheard even five years ago, my humble ND5XS has been transformed with the addition of Chord Dac as would the 272 I'm sure if this additon were possible.  The 272 is a fantastic modern approach to HiFi and will no doubt be expanded upon and improved as the years pass but and this is a big but for me those improvements will not be available to ownwers of the 272. 

+1  And those of us who follow Naim products on ebay have recently seen a few 272 who failed to find a new owner -- other  used and ex-demo Naim kit with similar discounts would have been sold. This might be a reflection of DAC concerns and concerns over a not so distant release of new streaming products with updated technology. Well, once Naim sorted out the Uniti range....

Bob the Builder posted:
ChrisSU posted:
Bob the Builder posted:

not so long ago mp3 was considered to be cutting edge

1987 - The Fraunhofer Institut in Germany began research code-named EUREKA project EU147, Digital Audio Broadcasting (DAB).
January 1988 - Moving Picture Experts Group or MPEG was established as a subcommittee of the International Standards Organization/International Electrotechnical Commission or ISO/IEC.
April 1989 - Fraunhofer received a German patent for MP3.1992 -

Fraunhofer's and Dieter Seitzer’s audio coding algorithm was integrated into MPEG-1.
1993 - MPEG-1 standard published.
1994 - MPEG-2 developed and published a year later.

Cutting Edge enough for you? Might not sound great now but the compression of music files and its implications back then were indeed cutting edge. 

They might have had brains the size of small planets, but as one who enjoys decent sound quality, I feel these people have a lot to answer for.

Ravenswood10 posted:

252/300DR/NDS/555PS and throw in an SL loom too - even more serious but so is the cost. For me I've always been sceptical about lumping so much gubbins into a single box a la 272 but perhaps that's me.

I was sceptical too until I heard it in action. Maybe some of what's lost on the swings (having all the electronics in one box) comes back on the roundabouts when you take out the distortion/variable of an Interconnect between streamer and pre-amp ?

kevin J Carden posted:
Ravenswood10 posted:

252/300DR/NDS/555PS and throw in an SL loom too - even more serious but so is the cost. For me I've always been sceptical about lumping so much gubbins into a single box a la 272 but perhaps that's me.

I was sceptical too until I heard it in action. Maybe some of what's lost on the swings (having all the electronics in one box) comes back on the roundabouts when you take out the distortion/variable of an Interconnect between streamer and pre-amp ?

Naim seem to have hit a real sweet spot with the 272, something that didn't quite happen with the 172. Very impressed when i heard one last year so i can understand why they are so popular. 

Timo posted:
Bob the Builder posted:

I'm worried that the technology inside a 272 could become stagnant as without a digital out to bypass the 272's internal dac it does become a 2 or 3 box final solution as far as I can see which is fine if you are happy to live with that sound forever.  The beauty of a digital sound is that it is a constantly improving technology at a point not so long ago mp3 was considered to be cutting edge,  the dac's now produced by Chord, Naim and others are at a level unheard even five years ago, my humble ND5XS has been transformed with the addition of Chord Dac as would the 272 I'm sure if this additon were possible.  The 272 is a fantastic modern approach to HiFi and will no doubt be expanded upon and improved as the years pass but and this is a big but for me those improvements will not be available to ownwers of the 272. 

+1  And those of us who follow Naim products on ebay have recently seen a few 272 who failed to find a new owner -- other  used and ex-demo Naim kit with similar discounts would have been sold. This might be a reflection of DAC concerns and concerns over a not so distant release of new streaming products with updated technology. Well, once Naim sorted out the Uniti range....

I do not have any concerns about the DAC in the 272,it sounds fantastic to me without an external one,especially with the Xpsdr attatched.One thing you can do,is run a Core into a DAC,into the 272's analog inputs if you wish.

Why not just buy the 272 and enjoy its wonderful sound with, or without, external PS until it's been superceded, then replace it, should you so wish, with a 372 or whatever? I can't see that the 272 has ever been aimed at the dyed in the wool separates owner, and shouldn't be judged as such. 

Tim

TonyK posted:

Picking up my 272 this afternoon from my dealer.  Took 4 weeks from placing order. Replacing the Uniti 2. Reading all the posts on this thread can I expect a big difference once run in?

I moved from a Uniti 2 as well. What I've learned is the U2 is a very good piece of kit. Is the 272/XPS/250 better? Yes. Is the U2 embarrassed by the 272 combo? No IMO. I'm happy with the move I made but it's not as big of a difference as the price would make it seem. Enjoy the new kit. Just to be clear I'm not going back to the U2 from here but it is a nice piece. 

SS : Many thanks for reply. Just that my U2 with 250Dr has been sounding so good lately that I was dreaming of even more from the 272. Next is the XPS DR and then a SL ic and speaker cables by Cristmas time. My U 2 is being inherited by my daughter and her husband so it will stil be in the family.

TonyK posted:

SS : Many thanks for reply. Just that my U2 with 250Dr has been sounding so good lately that I was dreaming of even more from the 272. Next is the XPS DR and then a SL ic and speaker cables by Cristmas time. My U 2 is being inherited by my daughter and her husband so it will stil be in the family.

You will get more from the 272. I was more reminiscing on just how good the U2 actually was in my house. Ice also added SL IC. Can't really comment on it benefit or lack of benefit. I added it all at about the same time. 

Likes (1)
Cloud Sauce
×
×
×
×