Internet Radio BBC Channels

BBC Radio HD stations often drop out , and then again often will run for hours.
When it drops out the N272 typically locks up until I manually select another input from the front panel.
our Muso(s) both have the same problem with drop outs

I also listened to Radio paradise Naim 320kb, Linn jazz & classical and never had these stop streaming,

Curiously i find TIdal rarely has a problem, which has been a issue for others

so presume its something with the BBC HD 339KB interaction

Their have been previous threads on this

http://forums.naimaudio.com/to...with-bbc-hd-stations

http://forums.naimaudio.com/to...-radio-stops-playing

http://forums.naimaudio.com/to...ack-and-bbc-hd-radio

 

Hungryhalibut posted:

I've been playing Radio 2 for the last few hours, simply to check it's ok. Plenty of mindless waffle, but no dropouts. 

In view of the mindless waffle on Radio 2's daytime schedule, I'd have thought occasional dropouts would present a welcome relief!

Parlee-king posted:

..............   When it drops out the N272 typically locks up until I manually select another input from the front panel.

That might be interesting,  I'm passing it over to the Naim beta group as a possible link to another problem.  

I am getting the same on my mu-so, normally leave it on Radio 2 HD all day but the frequency of the dropouts recently, means I have gone back to DAB on another device (which the muso was supposed to replace). The dropouts also happen on my Roberts Stream, but if I use iPlayer off the ipad or computer then no issues at all.

Muso is hardwired, no issues with other stations e.g. radio paradise.

Steve

Yes. I had been experiencing regular dropouts on the BBC HLS stations on Saturday mornings for the last few weekends. I have ruled out local network issues and Tidal and other streaming sources are fine, so it would seem it's either a problem with my ISP (BT) or upstream with overloaded HLS servers at the BBC end.

Saturday mornings is now a BBC avoidance day since SOTS has changed, O'Leary & Norton = yuk.  But honestly I really can't say I've had any BBC HD (HLS) drop outs,  On the rare occasion I can remember it just went off air & by the time I finished trying other stations, it was back again.   But I've had the same on Paradise, Linn & Naim so in my experience it isn't the BBC servers.

Mike, agreed on R2 avoidance on Saturdays especially. But we have been having dropouts on R4 and 6 Music on Saturday mornings which we listen to all the time. I really hate it when this happens, because I get the inevitable "you paid how much for this complicated system and it can't even play the radio properly" comment from my wife, at which point she promptly turns on the Sony FM radio, which of course is absolutely fine...

Mike, for over a week now the Muso keeps dropping out at least once every half an hour until you give up (this is all week not just Saturdays). No issues with Radio Paradise, Wolf 103.2 or coming via the NAS, Ipad, computer. Just BBC, no issues with other streaming e.g. netflix to TV. I am struggling to see what else it can be aside from the BBC.

Adrian, yes I get the same it drops out, the Mrs sighs, looks at me, a raise of the eyebrows, takes the remote, off goes the muso and on comes the Pure radio ...

Steve

Adrian, Steve,   I don't doubt your problems, I'm just telling you what I have (or don't have).   If it helps with your investigations, I have a simple all wired LAN - BT hub to switch - NAS to switch to NDX.    My internet is via BT HH5, it's copper cable to fibre cabinet apex 250m away & I get 74 to 75mbs downlink.  I also get trouble free TV streaming.

Testing this morning with standard BBC2 steam not HD on 272, both muso QB & OB on BBC2HD with the volumeturned down.

been OK so far for drop outs, just the content SOTS brings back dreadful memories of working with a chap who was rooted in the 60s and recorded it to play back on. 

Hi, after seeing a post on the Sonos site where it said that if you were using a favourite/preset to connect, try redoing as the links do change and since R2 has been a pre-set on my muso since HD was available I tried it - so far so good.

Adrian may be worth a go and may explain why others aren't seeing the same.

Steve

@David Weller Just to confirm that here in Oxford I had the same problem with all BBC Radio streams on Mu-so, with drop outs from Tue-Thu 16-18/May. Everything else was OK and as a test I listened to Naim Radio 320K for an hour with no problems. The intermittent nature made it difficult to investigate. At first I thought it was only on one ISP (I have two) and contacted their support who suggested restarting my router. Unsurprisingly this made no difference. I looked around for someone else reporting it but couldn't find anything and reverted to FM. On Fri 19/May the BBC Radio 3 HD stream was back to normal.

I remember this happening once before. I suspect it was a problem with the HLS system. It would be great if the BBC had a status page that was updated in real time.

Thanks for reporting. Relieved that others had the same experience.

david

I had a very bad case of this a few days ago, when the broadcast was interrupted and then re-started (accumulating 20  minutes of delay???). Yesterday there were more consistent and frequent drop-outs (no delay) which meant that listening was almost impossible. Yesterday's problem could be 'cured' by selecting another pre-set and then going back to R4. All through this the internet radio, via the computer, was unaffected.

I have reported this to BBC in the past and received the sort of reply an arts graduate would give; full of platitudes and sod all content.

Not out of the wood: having been OK since Friday morning here (Oxford), the intermittent drop outs are back this Monday morning starting around 08:35 BST. During an outage all Mu-so BBC HD presets (1-4, 6) were unavailable. Also an alternative system which uses my other ISP was unavailable. As of 0850 BST both are working again. This seems to suggest an upstream problem.

david

This is wierd DavidS,  I'm near Oxford & my R2 HD has been working fine since 7am this morning.  I'm NDX & have just R2 & R3 as presets,  but I've been looking around all the BBC screens to see if stuff has gone missing.     I agree it does seem like an upstream (server) problem,  but I don't understand why I'm not affected ( yet ...   ... )

hi

so the BBC have got back in touch with a request for the following

product effected 

ISP used

Router used

geographic locations

is the customer using the latest vTuner URL as a favorite or is it old stored favorites

if i could ask those effected to respond with the relevant above information, we can collate it

thank you

Trevor

I've not been affected by this problem,  but maybe "is the customer using the latest vTuner URL as a favorite or is it old stored favorites"   holds a clue.   Because I've had  my fair share of the iOS app 'wheel of death',  3 weeks ago I completely cleared out everything on the app, forced a restart & reinstalled all new presets (favourites).   

@Trevor Wilson

Product: Mu-so FW 1.5.03
ISP: Plusnet FTTC 80 Mbps
Router: Firebrick 2700 and BT VDSL Modem
Geo: Oxford OX3
URL: Saved iRadio preset from many months ago

I listen almost exclusively to BBC Radio 3 HD which was saved as a Preset from iRadio many months ago. The recent spate of dropouts were from Tue-Thu 16-18/May. Fri -Sun 19-21/May were dropout free, but they started again on Mon 22/May at 0835 BST.

I wan't aware of any change of vTuner URLs. Do you want me to delete and repopulate the presets?

david

PS I've replaced the BBC Radio 4 HD preset hopefully as a control to try when BBC Radio 3 HD drops out.

Trevor Wilson posted:

hi

so the BBC have got back in touch with a request for the following

product effected 

ISP used

Router used

geographic locations

is the customer using the latest vTuner URL as a favorite or is it old stored favorites

if i could ask those effected to respond with the relevant above information, we can collate it

thank you

Trevor

Hi Trevor

 

ISP is BT Fibre Broadband

Router is TP LINK Archer 900

Channels affected are BBC Radio2 and BBC Radio2 HD no other indepedant channels suffering

Yes these were presets, which i have this evening deleted and re tuned and saved as new will advise over next few days

Thanks

 

David

23/May BBC Radio 3 intermittent drop outs from 0730 BST when I turned on Mu-so, continuing as of 0900 BST.

Looking at Now playing, during drop out buffer level drops (normally 100%), Dropouts vary in length. Also Mu-so sometimes skips a section of programme. 

FWIW Mu-so is connecting to 2.18.65.72 (Akamai), currently via Plusnet

Traceroute 2.18.65.72 from 84.92.37.144

Traceroute
NoTime(ms)IP AddressNoteName
16.831195.166.130.252Progresslo0.central10.psb-bng01.plus.net 
27.29284.93.253.103Progress411.be5.psb-ir02.plus.net 
37.318195.99.125.142Progress  
48.058213.121.193.207Progress  
57.335166.49.211.240Progresst2c3-et-8-1-0-0.uk-lon1.eu.bt.net 
68.403166.49.211.254Progress166-49-211-254.eu.bt.net 
78.245195.2.25.169Progressae9-xcr1.lsh.cw.net 
88.029195.2.24.69Progressae7-xcr1.slo.cw.net 
913.443195.89.104.54Progressakamai-sl-gw.slo.cw.net 
108.9102.18.65.72Reply  
DavidS posted:

@Trevor Wilson

Product: Mu-so FW 1.5.03
ISP: Plusnet FTTC 80 Mbps
Router: Firebrick 2700 and BT VDSL Modem
Geo: Oxford OX3
URL: Saved iRadio preset from many months ago

I listen almost exclusively to BBC Radio 3 HD which was saved as a Preset from iRadio many months ago. The recent spate of dropouts were from Tue-Thu 16-18/May. Fri -Sun 19-21/May were dropout free, but they started again on Mon 22/May at 0835 BST.

I wan't aware of any change of vTuner URLs. Do you want me to delete and repopulate the presets?

david

PS I've replaced the BBC Radio 4 HD preset hopefully as a control to try when BBC Radio 3 HD drops out.

hi david

the comment came from BBC if the URL are new or old. i assume therefore that some manner of URL top level change has occured and they have put in place some re-direction for older URL. the BBC operate a large server farm and load balance between them i assume, so they got to hunt over a large range. thank you for the help your giving, appriciate it


Trev

Hi Trevor,

Thanks for pursuing this with the BBC. We didn't have any problems with R4 and 6 Music on Saturday morning as we have the past few weeks, even though we were still using the old presets. I have since deleted and reset the presets, all good so far. Will keep testing.

Product: NDS and Qute2 .73 beta FW, Mu-so FW 1.5.03
ISP: BT Infinity 80Mb
Router: Netgear R7000 and BT VDSL Modem
Geo: Berkshire SL5
URL: Was using old presets, have now reset.

Adrian

David Weller posted:

Unitiqute 2

Is anyone else haveing problem with BBC Channels dropping consistently through day every 15 - 20 minutes ?

Really fed up with this now !

Hi there,

 

Yes I do. Same problem with my MuSo for the past year!

Yes its Radio 2HD and Radio 2. Radio 3 and 4 do it less frequently.

Jazz FM and Radio Paradise are fine.

No Naim haven't fixed it yet

Yes lots of spurious advice

No it isn't sorted.

This occurred too frequently to be a network, router, broadband quality etc etc etc

Check my problems/posting a month or so ago. Any search of forum will find it.

Best of luck and no you are not going mad.

Kind Regards

 

RR

hi, the BBC have returned saying they are struggling to see a pattern presently that would allow then to help track it down. currently from reading the above, it seems that

BBC Radio 2 is the main source of issues, with BBC 3 and 4 also being effected but less so

doesn't seem to be linked to bandwidth limitations, however that doesn't rule out other issues within Naim solution, ISP or BBC so the proactive assistance being given really helps!



question - is there any pattern of timing during the day (reference UK time please - just in case). im curious if its linked to timings of increased loads on the internet or BBC stations somewhere - just a theory to help track things down

Trevor

@Trevor Wilson

Your help is much appreciated.

I listen to BBC Radio 3 HD almost exclusively and am not aware of any pattern of dropouts during the day, though I will look out for one. For me, most days are good, with occasional runs of bad days when the dropouts seem to occur most of the day (at least until I get fed up with them).

Today Thu 25/May I've been listening to R3 0700-1300 BST with no dropouts at all. This is what I would regard as "normal" at this location etc. (Mu-so FW v1.5.03, Plusnet FTTC 80Mbps, Oxford OX3). I updated all BBC iRadio presets two days ago but that didn't make any difference.

I suspect it's probably an internet routing issue. I've found a way of running a continuous traceroute to the destination IP the Mu-so using and packet loss is currently 0% at all hops. Next time there are drop outs, I will repeat this and see if anything stands out. Today the route is similar to that shown above, except that the two Cable & Wireless (cw.net) routers are different. FWIW, from their names, it seems likely that the Akamai farm I'm connected to is in Slough. Sadly, if there is intermittent router congestion, it's difficult to get it fixed and mostly you just have to wait for it to get better.

david

PS Ping latency to the Akamai end point is averaging 11.2ms (range 10.3-13.1) which is about as good as it gets on FTTC.

DavidS posted:

@Trevor Wilson

Your help is much appreciated.

I listen to BBC Radio 3 HD almost exclusively and am not aware of any pattern of dropouts during the day, though I will look out for one. For me, most days are good, with occasional runs of bad days when the dropouts seem to occur most of the day (at least until I get fed up with them).

Today Thu 25/May I've been listening to R3 0700-1300 BST with no dropouts at all. This is what I would regard as "normal" at this location etc. (Mu-so FW v1.5.03, Plusnet FTTC 80Mbps, Oxford OX3). I updated all BBC iRadio presets two days ago but that didn't make any difference.

I suspect it's probably an internet routing issue. I've found a way of running a continuous traceroute to the destination IP the Mu-so using and packet loss is currently 0% at all hops. Next time there are drop outs, I will repeat this and see if anything stands out. Today the route is similar to that shown above, except that the two Cable & Wireless (cw.net) routers are different. FWIW, from their names, it seems likely that the Akamai farm I'm connected to is in Slough. Sadly, if there is intermittent router congestion, it's difficult to get it fixed and mostly you just have to wait for it to get better.

david

PS Ping latency to the Akamai end point is averaging 11.2ms (range 10.3-13.1) which is about as good as it gets on FTTC.

Hi David,

Very interesting and thorough postings. I have had problems like this with my Mu-So since I got it. I love the sound but the drop outs drive me crazy.

I hope you get resolution, but before you go too mad, have a search on other forums, notably Linn's. As far as I know, no one has had a problem or repeated posted about poor Internet radio performance, drop outs etc, particularly that of the BBC.

Strange that isn't it. One presume the Linn guys are using similar routers/swiches/modems etc etc.

In my view devolos (which I use successfully with my Klimax DS system, to get the ethernet over the house wiring) are not the devils spawn and you shouldn't need a super sexy router, hard wired to get some Naim lifestyle kit to even sniff at it.

I did hear once that the way Linn DS works to retrieve data/files etc is different to Naim Streamers. Something to do with either pushing or pulling files from the network. May be wide of the mark here but it sure would explain Linn's lack of drop outs.

Kind Regards

RR

Just off to get my hard hat on to cope with the flack that will no doubt arrive.

 

 

 

Likes (0)
×
×
×
×