Kudos C20's to S20's - Anyone Upgraded?

A change in living room furniture means that it would be nice to change our speaker colour from a cherry to oak finish when the opportunity arises. i.e. we will wait until a nice used/ex demo pair comes up.

We really like the C20's so would be reluctant to change to anything else but I did wonder if I should include S20's in my search.

Given that the S20's are an improved version of the C20's I would be interested in learning from anybody's experience of moving from C20's to S20's and how similar in signature, placement requirements and how much better they are.

This is in the context of a NDX/282/HicapDR/250DR system.

Thanks

Richard

Original Post

I agree, I think the C20's are probably as far as one should go in our system without a source upgrade but if a pair of S20's came up first (they don't seem to be offered for sale very often) they could be tempting given that they appear to be cut from the same cloth as the C20.

I think I will have quite a wait for either, but happy to sit it out and will probably go for whatever comes up first but some insight on teh S20's would be useful.

Ovator S-400 are mid way (pricewise) between C20's and S20's and they seem well suited in far lesser systems so I'm not sure I should be too worried about creating a mullet.  There's even one bloke on the forum using a pair of SL2's with some music centre preamp/streamer thingie!

I hesitate to weigh in in the context of very much more experienced forum members; but for what it is worth, when I demoed speakers for a 272/250DR system a year ago I listened to both C20 and S20s and found the S20s to be distinctly more refined......

As for mullets, the only sensible final arbiter has to be your ears, with your system, in your room.

Pcd posted:

Power supply on the NDX is a must different box altogether with a XPS.

Understood.  The purpose of this change is to change the finish of the speakers, hence remaining with C20's is a serious option as I like them so much.

Our room was furnished with yew reproduction furniture, the sort that 20+ years ago was very popular.  It isn't any more so a room makeover is in progress and the new furniture on order is a nice light oak colour which doesn't go particularly well with cherry speakers, unlike the yew which is a closer match.  Over time it will be nice to match the oak finish in the speakers.  

It's quite a reasonable call to remain with C20's ,changing finish and saving funds for source or for more music.  As it is a like for like change if I buy used there should be little, if any money to pay.

MM - I did speak to Kudos over the 'designed to be used with a NAP300' business.  They did confirm they use a NAP300 when the design their speakers but other Naim power amps are equally acceptable.  Having used a NAP200 and NAP250DR with my C20's this seems to be true.  Of course I suspect a NAP300 would be even more wonderful!

trickydickie posted:

A change in living room furniture means that it would be nice to change our speaker colour from a cherry to oak finish when the opportunity arises. i.e. we will wait until a nice used/ex demo pair comes up.

We really like the C20's so would be reluctant to change to anything else but I did wonder if I should include S20's in my search.

Given that the S20's are an improved version of the C20's I would be interested in learning from anybody's experience of moving from C20's to S20's and how similar in signature, placement requirements and how much better they are.

This is in the context of a NDX/282/HicapDR/250DR system.

Thanks

Richard

I used the S20's with an Olive 250 and the results were enjoyable but the bass was a little boomy; something I put down to the down firing port and my room charcteristics. Having switched to a pair of 135's there is less, but much better controlled, bass and I have much more of a sense that I am getting the best out of the S20's (which are now even more enjoyable and insightful). I have no experience of the 250Dr but Mango Monkey may be correct in that a 300 ( or a pair of 135's) is the optimum amplifier. 

Possibly, but a 250DR is really not that far behind a non-DR NAP300, so I wouldn't worry about it at all.  

I have heard the S10 with 250DR and they were lovely.  So, if you are going to change speakers anyway to get the veneer that your family prefers, then I too would go for the S20 over the C20, unless that is I heard the Proac D30R.  The D30R vs S20 makes for a most interesting comparison.

Hope this helps, FT

Hi,

I used C20s with a CDS3/282/supercap DR/200 and it all worked very well.

I then upgraded the 200 to a 300dr which worked even better.

I then upgraded C20s to S20s. Wow.

I then upgraded the 282 to a 552 and full loom SL and the S20s still do the business very well.

In summary I think the C20s and S20s are both very good and, in my opinion, are better than the S400, but I guess that could be room dependent.

I think you could go for the S20s with no issues, in the satisfaction that upgrades in the electronics at a later date, will bring even more delight.

Regards,

Nick

 

I had very good results with 282/250.2 (was using nds though) and first using c20 for extended homedemo, but eventually ordered s20 as it just came on the market then. Assuming your source will be up for it, the amps could clearly show the difference. Later got 552 and 300dr and as others mention s20s continued to grow. However dont think it takes 300 for them to be great, br Lars

I guys, I own a pair of Kudos C20 with SN2+TC and CDX2.2+TXPS. I was thinking to change my C20 with a Super C20 or a Super C10 but by reading your comments above I suppose that my electronics are good enough only for C20. My room is 16-18 mq and I do not want to change my SN2.

Thank you in advance for your support.

The Strat (Fender) posted:

I'm afraid to say Mr Mango has launched more hyperbole.  Of course they are superb with a NAP 300 but the guys from Kudos have demonstrated them with a SN2 to great effect.

Regards,

Lindsay 

That's because the SN2 is no slouch! Those guys at Kudos know what they're doing!

Thanks all for the replies and advice it was all most helpful.  There seemed to be a clear consensus.

Despite the advice I mulled it over, changed my mind several times and decided to stay with C20's with the intention of sourcing an oak pair when a suitable model came up.  I then had an opportunity to purchase a pair of ex demo Oak S20's, which along with other circumstances made it right to do and took the plunge.  They arrived yesterday!

First impressions are favorable, as others have said more refined and controlled, almost like the musicians aren't trying as hard.  This makes them more musical and easier to listen to. The bass is probably the most noticeable change, it is more controlled and they sound much closer to a sealed box design than any other reflex design I have heard with less overhang.  The change is more akin to a power supply upgrade on a black box, all the great elements of the C20 are still there, albeit at a higher level.  You can clearly tell they are descended from each other.

This isn't to take away from the C20's which are fabulous and I could go back to them in a heartbeat.  They represent great value for money and I would suspect given the choice between changing from a NAP200 to NAP250DR (assuming decent source and pre-amp) or changing from C20's to S20's retaining a NAP200 the power amp upgrade would be far more beneficial.  In fact I know this to be true having made exactly that change!

I'm probably not fully exploiting the S20's in my system, but clearly the system had more to give as I have seen an improvement.  

They have me sorted in the speaker department for a very long time.  I'm glad I didn't follow my own advice this time!

Richard

Lindsay

I certainly won't be worrying about the NAP 200 as I have a NAP 250DR!

The point I was making is that the NAP 200 > NAP 250dr upgrade with the C20's was a bigger upgrade than the C20's to S20's.  So if I had a NAP 200 with C20's I would do the power amp first as the C20's are already very capable.

Richard

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Richard,

Thanks - sorry misunderstood.   I have the S20s under consideration at the moment.  We share other system similarities!!

Regards,

Lindsay

So you've moved on from Sopra's then, I see, Lindsay? Do you have the S20s on home dem as we speak? My dealer showed me the latest version with removable links to make them active - are they the versions you're trying out?

trickydickie posted:

Thanks all for the replies and advice it was all most helpful.  There seemed to be a clear consensus.

Despite the advice I mulled it over, changed my mind several times and decided to stay with C20's with the intention of sourcing an oak pair when a suitable model came up.  I then had an opportunity to purchase a pair of ex demo Oak S20's, which along with other circumstances made it right to do and took the plunge.  They arrived yesterday!

First impressions are favorable, as others have said more refined and controlled, almost like the musicians aren't trying as hard.  This makes them more musical and easier to listen to. The bass is probably the most noticeable change, it is more controlled and they sound much closer to a sealed box design than any other reflex design I have heard with less overhang.  The change is more akin to a power supply upgrade on a black box, all the great elements of the C20 are still there, albeit at a higher level.  You can clearly tell they are descended from each other.

This isn't to take away from the C20's which are fabulous and I could go back to them in a heartbeat.  They represent great value for money and I would suspect given the choice between changing from a NAP200 to NAP250DR (assuming decent source and pre-amp) or changing from C20's to S20's retaining a NAP200 the power amp upgrade would be far more beneficial.  In fact I know this to be true having made exactly that change!

I'm probably not fully exploiting the S20's in my system, but clearly the system had more to give as I have seen an improvement.  

They have me sorted in the speaker department for a very long time.  I'm glad I didn't follow my own advice this time!

Richard

Thank you Richard for your feedback. I also have a pair of Kudos C20 and I'm looking for Super 20 but I still have any doubts since C20s are very lovely speakers and my intention is to maintain the SN2 without any future upgrade. It's better that I keep out from the forum from a while 

damy79 posted:

Thank you Richard for your feedback. I also have a pair of Kudos C20 and I'm looking for Super 20 but I still have any doubts since C20s are very lovely speakers and my intention is to maintain the SN2 without any future upgrade. It's better that I keep out from the forum from a while 

I would stick with the C20's if I were you.  They still have more to give if you have the inclination (and money!).

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