Kudos S20s

Lindsay - there are lots of speakers out there, but integration with the room is priceless 

I was a bit of a brand tart really when I changed as I wanted to consider wider options and with various dealers  

On balance and imho the S20s worked for me better than the other speakers I had considered and much better than my previous speakers (both different and better) and were/are exceptional value for money 

So I am now a Kudos (and of course Naim) brand advocate - or Fan Boy if you prefer 

Hi Lindsay,

I am using a pair of C20, though not a Super 20, what I did experience when it was new, the treble can be a bit "hot".  The SEAs Crescendo tweeter do need quite a bit of time to run-in.   

Incisive and engaging speakers.  Super 20 can only be better.  It allows you to hear your turntable's(Xerxes 20) strength.  

Good luck and have fun.

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Wenger - I think it's really recording dependent and the S20s demonstrate the crap for what it really is!!!

I came to exactly the same conclusion. They're not very forgiving of poor recordings but with a decent recording the experience is sublime. They're able to reveal so much that had remained hidden with my existing speakers. They also have - to my ears at least - a really attractive tonal balance. They're musical as opposed to hi-fi, if that makes sense.

JP, sorry >>They're musical as opposed to hi-fi, if that makes sense.<< doesn't make sense to me at all - although I note that expression is confusingly used on some other hifi web forums like some sort of double speak... . A hifi speaker will be effective at conveying recorded music if it accurately reproduces the musical audio signal in a high fidelity manner in a given system/room. A poor speaker, that is not hifi, is unlikely to convey music  at all well. I suspect when some use the term 'hifi' in a derogatory sense - they really mean lofi - or poorly matched systems/rooms.

 

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

JP, sorry >>They're musical as opposed to hi-fi, if that makes sense.<< doesn't make sense to me at all - although I note that expression is confusingly used on some other hifi web forums like some sort of double speak... . A hifi speaker will be effective at conveying recorded music if it accurately reproduces the musical audio signal in a high fidelity manner in a given system/room. A poor speaker, that is not hifi, is unlikely to convey music  at all well. I suspect when some use the term 'hifi' in a derogatory sense - they really mean lofi - or poorly matched systems/rooms.

 

Simon spot on    I've never got the term "too hi-Fi".  To me the better the hi-Fi the more music should be conveyed. 

In any event these boxes convey the music - big time 

The Strat (Fender) posted:

 

Simon spot on    I've never got the term "too hi-Fi".  To me the better the hi-Fi the more music should be conveyed. 

In any event these boxes convey the music - big time 

Sounds like you are moving to a conclusion Lindsay! Better get that credit card out....... 

Best

David

David Hendon posted:
The Strat (Fender) posted:

 

Simon spot on    I've never got the term "too hi-Fi".  To me the better the hi-Fi the more music should be conveyed. 

In any event these boxes convey the music - big time 

Sounds like you are moving to a conclusion Lindsay! Better get that credit card out....... 

Best

David

Just be careful getting that credit card out, the dust can get down you very easily,  be cautious 

The 'too hifi' term is just lazyspeak. We've all heard stereos with stinging treble and thumping bass, or weirdly holographic imaging, and I tend to think that this is what 'too hifi' means. Really musical systems are not impressive, they just sound like real musicians playing, and draw you in to the performance, rather than worrying about bass, treble, soundstage, separation and all that stuff. 

Got to concur with a good few of the posts here about room size.  In a small to medium room the S20s are very musical and enjoyable - their downward dispersed port is great for these rooms. Heard in rooms up to approx 15ft by 13ft they work really well. A rare thing, a serious floorstander that works well in a smaller room. 

However, in my 12ft by 19ft room (firing down the length) they sounded a bit lost and consequently rather bright. So best checked in the room they're going to go into.

BTW, on the 'too hifi' definition, I agree its a bit lazy and I'm probably guilty of using this phrase. For me it refers to a component or system that seems to major on an apparently technically empahasised presentation (eg. too much treble to seem detailed, a pushed forward vocal range to grab attention, over inflated bass to appear to go deeper than it actually does, as a few examples) but forgets about flow, timing, expression and other aspects of a musical performance. In other words, no emotional connection to the music or artist.

Hi Lindsay, delighted that the Kudos S20 speakers are working well for you. If you have the opportunity to hear the Proac D30R, I would be interested to learn of your impressions. The S20 and the D30R are the top two speakers that I have had the pleasure of hearing at that price point.

Best regards, FT

Badlands,

No I haven't in my room.  I love Dynas but in truth they are pretty well always difficult to integrate and I have a challenging listening space.

Guys,

More generally - why is it that whenever I change a component other than source there is a far greater improvement in the performance of vinyl than digital?

Regards,

Lindsay

Karen and I had the pleasure of visiting Lindsay last night and having a good listen to the Kudos in situ. 

They seem smaller than the Dynaudio's and sit closer to the wall. They fit perfectly into Lindsays room and don't intrude at all. Sound quality wise they are everything you expect from Kudos, Light, bright and airy, plenty of detail and dynamics but they integrate into his room perfectly. His system times immaculately and is beautifully balanced.

Lindsay had reservations about the quality of the treble when he first had them, Kudos can be a little harsh and brittle   when they are not set up right but there were no signs of this, in fact they had a warm cosy feel to them.

The biggest difference with the Kudos was that you could play them at low levels, particularly when the four of us were talking and the Kudos lost none of the music. A bonus for his wife as he no longer needs to crank the volume up to get the best out of his system.

The ability to listen at low levels without compromising too much on presence would be a major bonus for me. Most of us share our households with our families and some of us are 'attached' to neighbours. So low level listening capability is often a must, particularly late at night, and it is great that some speakers can actually achieve this.

nigelb posted:

The ability to listen at low levels without compromising too much on presence would be a major bonus for me. Most of us share our households with our families and some of us are 'attached' to neighbours. So low level listening capability is often a must, particularly late at night, and it is great that some speakers can actually achieve this.

Agreed Nigel, the Dynaudio's need plenty of power and grunt to get the best out of them and the sound quality crumbled as the volume control reduced. Yet the Kudos retained their composure and even when we were talking you could hear music flooding through.

Thanks Polarbear.

I believe Kudos speakers moved from dual binding posts to a single pair a couple of years ago (as have other manufacturers e.g. PMC) and SQ was enhanced. Am I correct here and Lindsay, are the S20s you are demoing single or dual binding posts?

Certainly decision time is pending.  PB's insights are the same as mine.   One other point about these speakers is their ability to communicate any genre of music - okay we haven't tried hip-hop yet! - but certainly they work across classical, jazz and rock with ease.   

This afternoon it was Mozart and Coltrane although they never actually recorded together��

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Certainly decision time is pending.  PB's insights are the same as mine.   One other point about these speakers is their ability to communicate any genre of music - okay we haven't tried hip-hop yet! - but certainly they work across classical, jazz and rock with ease.   

This afternoon it was Mozart and Coltrane although they never actually recorded together��

You can't send them back ...it's Xmas... 

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Certainly decision time is pending.  PB's insights are the same as mine.   One other point about these speakers is their ability to communicate any genre of music - okay we haven't tried hip-hop yet! - but certainly they work across classical, jazz and rock with ease.   

This afternoon it was Mozart and Coltrane although they never actually recorded together��

I should have bought that Metalica album over 

Polarbear posted:
The Strat (Fender) posted:

Certainly decision time is pending.  PB's insights are the same as mine.   One other point about these speakers is their ability to communicate any genre of music - okay we haven't tried hip-hop yet! - but certainly they work across classical, jazz and rock with ease.   

This afternoon it was Mozart and Coltrane although they never actually recorded together��

I should have bought that Metalica album over 

Didn't Metallica play with Coltrane? 

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Okay - these speakers tick all the boxes.  In light oak on order

Thanks for all comments and contributions guys. Much appreciated  

Regards,

Lindsay 

Congrats, Lindsay - great choice. Welcome to the Kudos-owners club

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Okay - these speakers tick all the boxes.  In light oak on order

Thanks for all comments and contributions guys. Much appreciated  

Regards,

Lindsay 

Good choice (biased opinion of course).  Bear with your new ones until you put a few hours on them and then enjoy.  If I thought I could get management approval I would have demoed the original Titans by now out of curiosity.  As the Isobaric was always the "super Kan" I imagine the Titans have a similar relationship to the S20's.

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Okay - these speakers tick all the boxes.  In light oak on order

Thanks for all comments and contributions guys. Much appreciated  

Regards,

Lindsay 

Congratulations,  time to sit back, gloat for abit, ( I think that's allowed ), stop analysing, and enjoy the music...

David Hendon posted:
Huge posted:
Adam Zielinski posted:

...I would have gone for the S20s (did I get my 3rd conditional right here???)

Yes!

It's often said that foreign English speakers use the language better than native English speakers!

And what's more, unlike most native English speakers, you actually know it's called a 3rd conditional!

best

David

I know - it's somewhat embarrassing!

...and to keep in line with the topic, hopefully my S20's (and S10's) will be with me shortly. I love my Titans but they are just a tad - erm - "large" for my current room so they'll be replaced with S20's (and the Titans stored away for now) with S10's going in as rears and centre.

Phil

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