linear ps for switch and routers

i read recently an article of jason kennedy in the ear magazine.  He writes about the ways to improve streaming audio. He recommends cad audio ground control and also mcru linear power supply for router and switch.

I have already tested entreq audio on my preamp and was not convinced : the sound was clearer but less life.

But maybe linear ps for router and switch, not very expensive ( 235 pounds) , can put off noise of switch mode ps that are on routers and give also quietness to switches...    Has anybody tried this?    I have already an optical bridge between switch and nds, very inexpensive but with great results.

FR

Original Post

I decided to get rid of as many SMPSs as possible. For my switch I bought a cheap Chinese R-Core LPSU from a popular auction site; £60.

I feel this delivered a less edgy sound.

I replaced my IFI 9V with an SBooster. This revealed more high frequency detail.

Have you powered the optical bridge with LPSUs?

M

 

Mr Underhill posted:

HH,

I have a CISCO switch, but as far as I am aware this uses an SMPS; so I use a Netgear switch + LPSU with my HiFi.

M

I don't know how many different switches Cisco make, but quite a few, and some of them have built in PSUs. Probably these would be SMPS?

Mr Underhill posted:

I decided to get rid of as many SMPSs as possible. For my switch I bought a cheap Chinese R-Core LPSU from a popular auction site; £60.

I feel this delivered a less edgy sound.

I replaced my IFI 9V with an SBooster. This revealed more high frequency detail.

Have you powered the optical bridge with LPSUs?

M

 

yes, the end of the bridge, near nds, is powered by a psu.  I heard an notable improvement with this bridge. But i wonder if putting linear ps on the the router and first switch before the bridge is useful...(?)

Keler Pierre posted:
Mr Underhill posted:

I decided to get rid of as many SMPSs as possible. For my switch I bought a cheap Chinese R-Core LPSU from a popular auction site; £60.

I feel this delivered a less edgy sound.

I replaced my IFI 9V with an SBooster. This revealed more high frequency detail.

Have you powered the optical bridge with LPSUs?

M

 

yes, the end of the bridge, near nds, is powered by a psu.  I heard an notable improvement with this bridge. But i wonder if putting linear ps on the the router and first switch before the bridge is useful...(?)

I power my downstream FMC from an HDPLEX; the upstream one with an iFi (on a different circuit). Noticed a small increase in sound quality by powering the upstream with the iFi. In my office I power a pair of FMC's to the UQ with iFi's - one of them I use a Y splitter on the cable and also power a 5v switch - the two FMC's and switch are all plugged into the same wiremold strip (and the UQ into the same outlet). No idea what's doing what the most (I had the two iFi's on hand) but it sounds dang good! 

sbilotta posted:

I put an ifi on a Paul Pang switch and there was a clear (even if not dramatic) improvement.

Should be getting an LPS-1 soon and will swap it out and let you know the outcome.

because i understood that the bridge is to put off  the noise from ethernet and linear ps on router and switch shall have the same effect. So the addition of the two is perhaps too much....i don't know. But yes, let me know the effect of your lp-1 when you can. Thanks

Hungryhalibut posted:

I thought the Paul Pang switch was the dog's bollocks, the mutt's nuts, and was impossible to improve. Seems not. 

i use neatgear switch from the router, then optical bridge and the final switch where is connected the audioquest diamond ethernet to the nds. On the neatgear i put meicord ethernet to the unitserve. The unitserve has tp ps.

charlesphoto posted:
Keler Pierre posted:
Mr Underhill posted:

I decided to get rid of as many SMPSs as possible. For my switch I bought a cheap Chinese R-Core LPSU from a popular auction site; £60.

I feel this delivered a less edgy sound.

I replaced my IFI 9V with an SBooster. This revealed more high frequency detail.

Have you powered the optical bridge with LPSUs?

M

 

yes, the end of the bridge, near nds, is powered by a psu.  I heard an notable improvement with this bridge. But i wonder if putting linear ps on the the router and first switch before the bridge is useful...(?)

I power my downstream FMC from an HDPLEX; the upstream one with an iFi (on a different circuit). Noticed a small increase in sound quality by powering the upstream with the iFi. In my office I power a pair of FMC's to the UQ with iFi's - one of them I use a Y splitter on the cable and also power a 5v switch - the two FMC's and switch are all plugged into the same wiremold strip (and the UQ into the same outlet). No idea what's doing what the most (I had the two iFi's on hand) but it sounds dang good! 

i don't know what is iFi?  i use also hdplex to power my final switch, where the nds is connected.

Mr Underhill posted:

I decided to get rid of as many SMPSs as possible. For my switch I bought a cheap Chinese R-Core LPSU from a popular auction site; £60.

I feel this delivered a less edgy sound.

I replaced my IFI 9V with an SBooster. This revealed more high frequency detail.

Have you powered the optical bridge with LPSUs?

M

 

do you have also the optical bridge?   i don't know if it is useful to put linear ps on the router and first switch and also have an optical bridge. Perhaps it is too much?

iFi Audio make neat little SMPS in various voltages that are extremely low noise and supposedly don't inject much back into the mains. For $49 they're great for purposes such as switches, FMC's etc, or in set ups like my office where $ is the priority. The HDPLEX better the iFi with my micrRendu, but not by much. The Uptone LPS-1 trounced both. I like the HD though as it's so versatile. 

charlesphoto posted:

iFi Audio make neat little SMPS in various voltages that are extremely low noise and supposedly don't inject much back into the mains. For $49 they're great for purposes such as switches, FMC's etc, or in set ups like my office where $ is the priority. The HDPLEX better the iFi with my micrRendu, but not by much. The Uptone LPS-1 trounced both. I like the HD though as it's so versatile. 

ok thanks. I have hdplex on a switch and sometimes it switches off, but rarely now.

I’ve been toying with the same question, wondering whether to treat the modem and router as an integral part of the audio system that might benefit from better power supplies or grounding devices.   It makes sense intuitively, but I had no first-hand experience until recently.  For years, I simply plugged the modem and router into a cheap computer power strip separate from other computer gear in the office.   Elsewhere in a separate part of the house, my audio system got the VIP treatment for power delivery:  a dedicated spur, an expensive Furutech receptacle with carbon cover, an Audience AR6 Power Distribution Center, Naim Powerline or Sablon power cables, etc.  

A few weeks ago I decided to relocate the modem, router and server from an office desk to a nearby closet.  This seemed like a good time to buy a decent power strip to connect the devices...  in the slight chance the sound quality might improve.  I ended up purchasing a used IsoTek Sirius EVO power strip for $350 that performs mild filtration and isolates the connected devices.  After plugging in the modem, router, and server, I went upstairs for a quick listen.  The improvement in sound quality was obvious from the first notes.  Music was clearer with better instrument placement.  There was noticeably less congestion and brightness with louder passages.  The improvement was better than any previous cable change or adding the IFI IPower converter to the modem a few months back.  

Another surprise was these improvements occurred when streaming music from Tidal or server wirelessly with EERO router/WAPs.  One might think that a wireless connection would eliminate noise or other artifacts that degrade the sound.  However, my experience using a quality power strip says otherwise.   For those who stream, the modem, router and server are literally the "front-end" of the audio system.   These devices deserve special treatment to get the best sound quality.  Take your pick: power strip, linear power supply, grounding device, etc.  

Kendrick posted:

I’ve been toying with the same question, wondering whether to treat the modem and router as an integral part of the audio system that might benefit from better power supplies or grounding devices.   It makes sense intuitively, but I had no first-hand experience until recently.  For years, I simply plugged the modem and router into a cheap computer power strip separate from other computer gear in the office.   Elsewhere in a separate part of the house, my audio system got the VIP treatment for power delivery:  a dedicated spur, an expensive Furutech receptacle with carbon cover, an Audience AR6 Power Distribution Center, Naim Powerline or Sablon power cables, etc.  

A few weeks ago I decided to relocate the modem, router and server from an office desk to a nearby closet.  This seemed like a good time to buy a decent power strip to connect the devices...  in the slight chance the sound quality might improve.  I ended up purchasing a used IsoTek Sirius EVO power strip for $350 that performs mild filtration and isolates the connected devices.  After plugging in the modem, router, and server, I went upstairs for a quick listen.  The improvement in sound quality was obvious from the first notes.  Music was clearer with better instrument placement.  There was noticeably less congestion and brightness with louder passages.  The improvement was better than any previous cable change or adding the IFI IPower converter to the modem a few months back.  

Another surprise was these improvements occurred when streaming music from Tidal or server wirelessly with EERO router/WAPs.  One might think that a wireless connection would eliminate noise or other artifacts that degrade the sound.  However, my experience using a quality power strip says otherwise.   For those who stream, the modem, router and server are literally the "front-end" of the audio system.   These devices deserve special treatment to get the best sound quality.  Take your pick: power strip, linear power supply, grounding device, etc.  

so you recommend more the sirius isotek power strip than linear ps for router and switch ? or you recommend both, in conjunction ?  thanks

I can highly recommend the IsoTek Systems EVO 3 Sirius power strip for use with modem, router and server.  I cannot say whether this solution is better or "worse" than using a good linear power supply or grounding device because I have no personal experience with the other devices in this application.   I decided to use a power strip rather than a power supply or grounding device because it seemed like a simple, functional solution.   Imagine the clutter with multiple power supplies and grounding devices to treat modem, router, server and a switch!  

There is always something learn about audio.  After 15 years of streaming music, I somehow just stumbled on to the idea of treating the modem, router and server as the "front-end" of the system.   I read about audio regularly but seem to have missed the discussion on this topic.   Maybe it needs more attention.  Thanks, Keler, for raising the question and giving me a chance to share my experience.    

Kendrick posted:

I can highly recommend the IsoTek Systems EVO 3 Sirius power strip for use with modem, router and server.  I cannot say whether this solution is better or "worse" than using a good linear power supply or grounding device because I have no personal experience with the other devices in this application.   I decided to use a power strip rather than a power supply or grounding device because it seemed like a simple, functional solution.   Imagine the clutter with multiple power supplies and grounding devices to treat modem, router, server and a switch!  

There is always something learn about audio.  After 15 years of streaming music, I somehow just stumbled on to the idea of treating the modem, router and server as the "front-end" of the system.   I read about audio regularly but seem to have missed the discussion on this topic.   Maybe it needs more attention.  Thanks, Keler, for raising the question and giving me a chance to share my experience.    

i am tempted by your solution. I have already an optical bridge, so a simple power conditionner at the front of the router and switch seems having sense. I found one at half the price on internet... and the isotek sirius is not expensive.  thanks, good idea

Kendrick posted:

I can highly recommend the IsoTek Systems EVO 3 Sirius power strip for use with modem, router and server.  I cannot say whether this solution is better or "worse" than using a good linear power supply or grounding device because I have no personal experience with the other devices in this application.   I decided to use a power strip rather than a power supply or grounding device because it seemed like a simple, functional solution.   Imagine the clutter with multiple power supplies and grounding devices to treat modem, router, server and a switch!  

There is always something learn about audio.  After 15 years of streaming music, I somehow just stumbled on to the idea of treating the modem, router and server as the "front-end" of the system.   I read about audio regularly but seem to have missed the discussion on this topic.   Maybe it needs more attention.  Thanks, Keler, for raising the question and giving me a chance to share my experience.    

15 years of Streaming is a long time I just had an ipod back than and paid a fortune for it

Emre posted:
Kendrick posted:

I can highly recommend the IsoTek Systems EVO 3 Sirius power strip for use with modem, router and server.  I cannot say whether this solution is better or "worse" than using a good linear power supply or grounding device because I have no personal experience with the other devices in this application.   I decided to use a power strip rather than a power supply or grounding device because it seemed like a simple, functional solution.   Imagine the clutter with multiple power supplies and grounding devices to treat modem, router, server and a switch!  

There is always something learn about audio.  After 15 years of streaming music, I somehow just stumbled on to the idea of treating the modem, router and server as the "front-end" of the system.   I read about audio regularly but seem to have missed the discussion on this topic.   Maybe it needs more attention.  Thanks, Keler, for raising the question and giving me a chance to share my experience.    

15 years of Streaming is a long time I just had an ipod back than and paid a fortune for it

after 15 years of streaming, we can stream with one finger and closed eyes...  yes, i am joking. But seriously i don't know which is best: isotek sirius on router and switch or 2 linear power supplies for router and switch. The price is quite the same.

I put an iFi iPower (£45) on my Netgear switch, then replaced them with a managed Cisco switch with an integral linear power supply (£50 pre-loved) and have a cuddly toy linear power supply on my UnitiServe. All these changes produced some subtle improvement to these cloth ears. I would however recommend taking a placebo pill with each change to appreciate the full improvement in sound quality. 

Keler Pierre posted:

..................   i don't know which is best: isotek sirius on router and switch or 2 linear power supplies for router and switch. The price is quite the same.

With wireless hub (router) & switch power I advise to forget linear PS as these are not so electrically quiet as 'myth' has them, some are better than others but how to tell good from bad.  Per NigelB,  his suggestion of the iFi iPower SMPS is worth taking note of,  these units are significantly quieter than any LPS for a lot less money.  But another thing to note as mentioned by Nigel is the change/improvement in SQ in any of this PSU & mains noise subject is subtle (small & hard to detect)    In my system I have my wireless hub & switch power supplies connected to an APC UPS output,  this isolates these PS's from mains via the UPS internal isolation transformer & C&D mode choke,  so the ultra low iPower noise that does exist is further isolated .

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I hope so. What is wrong with SMPS? 

I actually think this is a complex question.

The normal accusation leveled at SMPS is that they kick high frequency noise back into the mains.

When I bought my microRendu (mR) I also got an IFI 9V iPower. These have been built using noise cancellation to stop rubbish being sent back into the mains. There was a good thread on Computer Audiophile (Power Supply (8+) Group Test) where a series of PSUs were measured, and the IFI did very well. However, I preferred the SBooster - my comment on CA:

SBooster LPSU 6v:

Got this last Friday. This is not a Damascene experience, in my system it does not change the character of what I hear; bare in mind that I am passing the mR output into a Mutec MC-3+USB. What the SBooster does do is:

  1. Improve the quality of the high frequencies; and
  2. Further uncover low level information in the music.

Example:

Signe from Eric Clapton Unplugged.

Standard test piece for me. Included in the supporting percussion are a triangle and wood blocks. These were evident before but, in the case of the triangle the emphasis was on the leading edge and it could almost sound truncated, and out of time in places; now you hear the rounded ring, it falls further back into the mix but you can here what the percussionist is doing. Similarly the wooden blocks are more of the piece and you can hear the resounding wooden sound, rather than a greater emphasis on the strike.

In summary, the Sbooster improves on what my system is doing right. This can almost sound minor, but in terms of what we are after in High Fidelity I suspect it is not - I just don't think it will supply this on its own. If your system is in good shape it will help focus what is already there.

 

In my system the effect of removing SMPS has been to remove edge leading to a more relaxed, but no less detailed and dynamic, presentation. That said the introduction of a bit of edge with the right music can be a boon!

However, I believe the effect of SMPS depends on how the device is engineered. I noticed no such edge with my Naim NS01, which uses SMPS. While I would expect Naim to take the time and trouble to address SMPS issues I would NOT expect this of IT companies.

M

Keler Pierre posted:
Mr Underhill posted:

I decided to get rid of as many SMPSs as possible. For my switch I bought a cheap Chinese R-Core LPSU from a popular auction site; £60.

I feel this delivered a less edgy sound.

I replaced my IFI 9V with an SBooster. This revealed more high frequency detail.

Have you powered the optical bridge with LPSUs?

M

 

do you have also the optical bridge?   i don't know if it is useful to put linear ps on the router and first switch and also have an optical bridge. Perhaps it is too much?

Hi Keler,

Yes.

In my HiFi area I replaced the bridge with an EMO-70HD passive device. However, at that time the bridge was powered with an LPSU and an IFI iPower. I moved it into the loft and use it after my CISCO switch for the cable that leads to my HiFi. Since then I have added a second LPSU.

Now that I have, at last, got my system sounding really very good I should re-do a number of the test I did and see if they still hold true.

I am just buying a further R-Core LPSU, one that does 9V and 5V. My intention is to use this initially to replace my SBooster powering my microRendu (mR) and see what I hear, then add the SBooster to power the Raspberry Pi 3 that I use to run LMS. Finally, I will go back to the SBooster on the mR  and power the RP3 with the R-Core. While I am doing all this I will take out the EMO and the Bridge and re-do all the tests.

M

Keler Pierre posted:

i don't know what is iFi?  i use also hdplex to power my final switch, where the nds is connected.

IFI = IFI iPower SMPS

These measure incredibly well, and now include Active Noise Cancellation to stop rubbish being pushed into the mains .....but, I still preferred the SBooster, at four time the cost.

M

charlesphoto posted:

I power my downstream FMC from an HDPLEX; the upstream one with an iFi (on a different circuit). Noticed a small increase in sound quality by powering the upstream with the iFi. In my office I power a pair of FMC's to the UQ with iFi's - one of them I use a Y splitter on the cable and also power a 5v switch - the two FMC's and switch are all plugged into the same wiremold strip (and the UQ into the same outlet). No idea what's doing what the most (I had the two iFi's on hand) but it sounds dang good! 

Hi Charles,

Just buying yet another R-Core to test in various positions - of which this will be one! I'll report back.

M

Hi Charles,

Just buying yet another R-Core to test in various positions - of which this will be one! I'll report back.

M

I take it you're getting an inexpensive Chinese one? I have a couple and they work (one on my main switch and another for my Vortexbox). But for the rendu if you ever have the dosh, I highly recommend the Uptone LPS-1. It's a game changer for sure. I really feel like it and the pair of FMC's made the overall biggest difference, and the rest of the lps's and cables etc just icing on the cake. 

Hi Charles,

R-Core = yes, cheap Chinese one.

I keep toying with the idea of an LPS1.

Have you followed the various threads by Bob? Uber USB and before that AOIP. He is something of a trail blazer, but has to move on from various fora as he has etiquette issues. Alex lent him an LPS1 and he thought it was good, but only marginally better that an R-Core he recommends. Thought I'd try the R-Core first, as the SBooster is non-too shabby.

M

Like anything in hifi it all really depends on the system I think. All I know is I heard an instant and definable jump in sq with the Uptone vs the HDPLEX. Never heard an SBooster so no idea where it lands. 

The 100va 12A R-Core I got from China stunk to high heaven of rosin solder. Took about a week to fully burn off the smell but it works fine and if nothing else will probably increase the life of my VB. Let us know what you hear! 

Mr Underhill posted:
Keler Pierre posted:
Mr Underhill posted:

I decided to get rid of as many SMPSs as possible. For my switch I bought a cheap Chinese R-Core LPSU from a popular auction site; £60.

I feel this delivered a less edgy sound.

I replaced my IFI 9V with an SBooster. This revealed more high frequency detail.

Have you powered the optical bridge with LPSUs?

M

 

do you have also the optical bridge?   i don't know if it is useful to put linear ps on the router and first switch and also have an optical bridge. Perhaps it is too much?

Hi Keler,

Yes.

In my HiFi area I replaced the bridge with an EMO-70HD passive device. However, at that time the bridge was powered with an LPSU and an IFI iPower. I moved it into the loft and use it after my CISCO switch for the cable that leads to my HiFi. Since then I have added a second LPSU.

Now that I have, at last, got my system sounding really very good I should re-do a number of the test I did and see if they still hold true.

I am just buying a further R-Core LPSU, one that does 9V and 5V. My intention is to use this initially to replace my SBooster powering my microRendu (mR) and see what I hear, then add the SBooster to power the Raspberry Pi 3 that I use to run LMS. Finally, I will go back to the SBooster on the mR  and power the RP3 with the R-Core. While I am doing all this I will take out the EMO and the Bridge and re-do all the tests.

M

it seems that no one uses the same material to clean ethernet. Some likes linear ps like uptone, other ipower, other Sbooster, and  also ups. Jason Kennedy recommends mcru linear ps for router and switch and more a cad audio ground control. 

I asked mcru site, they recommends me ps main plant conditionner .Another likes his isotek main conditionner.

For myself, i have an optical bridge with hdplex on the last switch and also tp ps for unitserve. The audioquest diamond on nds has also filtration. 

So i wonder if it is worth for me to add something else, perhaps a little main conditionner for my router and hdplex and tp ps. 

i will continue to consider all that...

sbilotta posted:

I put an ifi on a Paul Pang switch and there was a clear (even if not dramatic) improvement.

Should be getting an LPS-1 soon and will swap it out and let you know the outcome.

i can't find the sites to find the prices or buy paul pang switch and ifi . can you give me the names of the sites? thanks

Mike-B posted:

Salut Keler Pierre,  if it helps understand my set up  ...........  

your set up seems very good. But it is different from me: my nas( unitserve) is fed by tp ps. Yours go the the UPS.  Your router and switch go to the Ups, and for me i use an optical bridge between switch and nds( with hdplex ps on the last switch). 

So, what is working for you does't work necessarily for me. I don't know if adding this Ups on my system will not be too much.  But it is interesting to conversate about all this. It seems not so easy.   Mcru site recommends me PS power plant... 

Hi Keler,

On CA there are a couple of interesting threads on AC mains isolation. There John Swenson recommends a Topaz Isolation Transformer and putting all your equipment on a simple strip. He maintains this addresses issues with Leakage loops, something which his LPS1 effectively blocks. Worth reading and considering. Not done this myself.

M

Likes (0)
×
×
×
×