Mains cable.. seen the light????

Actually eating cake is bad for your Hi-Fi. Raises glucose hormone levels that expands blood oxygen and increases cell expansion within the inner ear, likely causing less nuance of movement from micro bone juice getting to the brain.

my mum used to eat a lot of cake and she wore a hearing aid.

My theory as to why fancy mains cables make a better difference is not so much shielding from frequencies brought out by today's technology, but from a channeling and tuning of the cosmic background radiation that is ever present. Ever since the Big Bang.

TOBYJUG posted:

My theory as to why fancy mains cables make a better difference is not so much shielding from frequencies brought out by today's technology, but from a channeling and tuning of the cosmic background radiation that is ever present. Ever since the Big Bang.

If your suggestion of a big bang,  was me just breaking wind, that's a tad unfair 

Filipe posted:

Getting serious. I thought some might like to see the difference between a switch mode power supply output, a linear PS and a battery based supply. Quite a mess from the SMPS!

Did you measure those - what was the switching supply some generic off the shelf wall wart ?

James

Not my photos. Well we all have plenty of cheap SMPSs. I have two fairly near my Hifi for the Hub and NAS, but I have a dedicated radial, and the hub and NAS are on the ring main.

I think some of those posting may not have knowledge of the electromagnetic environment near their expensive boxes. The photos suggest the SMPS is switching at quite high frequency to maintain it's output. It also failed to iron out the mains frequency.

I've tried various power cords and found they improved the bass frequencies, but with a better Din XLR (WitchHat) to the power Amp the power cords made the sound rather tiring so I removed the loan power cords and put back the basic cords Naim supplied until recently.

I also am trying Super Lumina between the nDAC and 282 so the signal paths is quite good now. Piano now sounds quite realistic whereas it was dull before.

Phil

Filipe posted:

Getting serious. I thought some might like to see the difference between a switch mode power supply output, a linear PS and a battery based supply. Quite a mess from the SMPS!

OK but where were these power supplies purchased and were any bought from either Waitrose or Aldi and what has any of this got to do with lemon drizzle cakes?

I am genuinely confused!

nigelb posted:
Filipe posted:

Getting serious. I thought some might like to see the difference between a switch mode power supply output, a linear PS and a battery based supply. Quite a mess from the SMPS!

OK but where were these power supplies purchased and were any bought from either Waitrose or Aldi and what has any of this got to do with lemon drizzle cakes?

I am genuinely confused!

Come on now Mr Nigel sir, it's easy to see....... the smps at 2.6A clearly creates the best drizzle! 

Finkfan posted:
nigelb posted:
Filipe posted:

Getting serious. I thought some might like to see the difference between a switch mode power supply output, a linear PS and a battery based supply. Quite a mess from the SMPS

OK but where were these power supplies purchased and were any bought from either Waitrose or Aldi and what has any of this got to do with lemon drizzle cakes?

I am genuinely confused!

Come on now Mr Nigel sir, it's easy to see....... the smps at 2.6A clearly creates the best drizzle! 

So the SMPS at 2.6A makes the best drizzle but the worst power supply. Right?

No, I'm still confused!

On a serious note, I added the Witch Hat Din/XLR, SL IC, PowerLine to 250DR and SL speaker leads in increments and all had a noticeable and positive impact on SQ. So I am a cable convert - end of. 

To the sceptics - Data, you want data and evidence? Bu**er off and get it yourself with your own ears. 

nigelb posted:
Finkfan posted:
nigelb posted:
Filipe posted:

Getting serious. I thought some might like to see the difference between a switch mode power supply output, a linear PS and a battery based supply. Quite a mess from the SMPS

OK but where were these power supplies purchased and were any bought from either Waitrose or Aldi and what has any of this got to do with lemon drizzle cakes?

I am genuinely confused!

Come on now Mr Nigel sir, it's easy to see....... the smps at 2.6A clearly creates the best drizzle! 

So the SMPS at 2.6A makes the best drizzle but the worst power supply. Right?

No, I'm still confused!

On a serious note, I added the Witch Hat Din/XLR, SL IC, PowerLine to 250DR and SL speaker leads in increments and all had a noticeable and positive impact on SQ. So I am a cable convert - end of. 

To the sceptics - Data, you want data and evidence? Bu**er off and get it yourself with your own ears. 

I forgot to mention I too believe SMPSs are the devil's spawn when it comes to quality HiFi. As a result I put the cuddly toy linear power supply on my UnitiServe to replace the rather crappy SMPS standard issue and I also replaced the even more crappy supplied SMPS on my Netgear switch with the low noise iFi iPower SMPS. Both made an appreciable positive impact on SQ to these ears. More recently I have replaced the Netgear switch with a pre-loved Cisco managed switch which incorporates a linear power supply. Now that really moved things on for a mere £50.

All these changes (including the cable changes) have I believe improved the integrity and/or lowered noise of the signal passing through that particular point in the system. No I have no data. No I have no evidence. No I did not conduct controlled blind A/B tests. Life is way too short. But each change added something positive, or more accurately removed something negative.

To the sceptics - give it a go. What have you got to lose? You might just prove us cable (and linear power supply) converts wrong.

Now time to try the Sainsbury's lemon drizzle cake. Am starting to feel a little nauseous, but it is all in the interests of data gathering and scientific testing. Got to prove the sceptics wrong!

Filipe posted:

Getting serious. I thought some might like to see the difference between a switch mode power supply output, a linear PS and a battery based supply. Quite a mess from the SMPS!

I can't really see what use this is, the regulation of the power rails will depend on the powersupply design not specifically on whether it's SMPS or linear powersupply. A well designed SMPS can have excellent regulation and noise rejection, and a poorly designed linear powersupply or battery supply can have appalling regulation and poor noise rejection... So unless you are measuring and comparing specific power supply models this could be very  misleading for the less technically literate...

Never mind the less technically literate, it mislead me - I missed the word output in the original posting.  So without units on the axes I assumed these were plots of the mains with the 50/60Hz filtered out.

So, two points

1   What appears at the DC output has nothing to do with the injection of interference into the mains (and hence nothing to do with mains cables).

2  Without without units on the axes it's impossible to be certain what the oscillographs actually mean (and I'm not going to form any conclusions from guess work).

100% Huge -  No data,  just pictures.   This witch hunt (attitude) against SMP is misguided & unjustified,  Yes bad SMPS are bad,  just as bad poorly regulated LPS are bad,  if not worse.  Correctly designed & applied SMPS are electrically quieter than LPS;  not forgetting Linn use SMPS across their product range & Naim have one or two s well.

Mike-B posted:

Correctly designed & applied SMPS are electrically quieter than LPS;  not forgetting Linn use SMPS across their product range & Naim have one or two s well.

Quite - both of the components in my simple little system have Switching supplies. I negate any adverse effects with a quick sprinkle of holy water at switch on and keep a bible by my side on the sofa  

Mike-B posted:

100% Huge -  No data,  just pictures.   This witch hunt (attitude) against SMP is misguided & unjustified,  Yes bad SMPS are bad,  just as bad poorly regulated LPS are bad,  if not worse.  Correctly designed & applied SMPS are electrically quieter than LPS;  not forgetting Linn use SMPS across their product range & Naim have one or two s well.

Mike I agree with the sentiment - but I would say "Correctly designed & applied SMPS can be electrically quieter than LPS". There is no definite absolute of one over the other.

After all we have SMPA (switch mode power amplifiers - Class D) as well as traditional linear amplifiers for hifi as well now.

However... it is fair to say many motivations for the use of SMPS in low end consumer electronics is to cut cost, and some of these designs tend to incorporate compromises and use lo-tec low cost techniques  and are set to meet minimum requirements on EMC and regulation for the job in hand .. and it is these devices that have tended to give SMPS a bad name... albeit they are correctly designed for the job in hand

S

The problem is it can be difficult/impossible to tell a bad SMPS from a good. It would be good if some guidance could be given to members as a result of this thread as that is the purpose of the forum. 

I assumed the one on the Uniti Serve was ok and plugged it into my dedicated radial. If the US one or any wall wart is plugged in elsewhere can this have negative effects through such connections as the US s/pdif connection or an Ethernet cable? As the US was on loan it's no longer a problem for me. 

Phone chargers are fairly basic with no transformers or sizeable capacitors. The plus here is that you can turn them off. Florescent lamps are cited as not good because they contain SMPS to generate discharge voltages. LEDs being low voltage presumably only need rectification, voltage reduction and smoothing. Personally I have not been able to hear any difference (let's not revert to lemon drizzle cake comments please!), but noise is a complex phenomenon.

However, wall warts look large enough to have a small transformer and capacitors. Hubs, network switches and NASs use these. Nigel mentioned that he replaced his with LPSs and felt it made a difference. My Rega RP8 has one of these, which I now plug into a ring main. I'm not sure what's inside other boxes such as TVs which have mains cords.

Risk avoidance (e.g. turning a phone charger off) is far better than spending money in hope of mitigating/minimising something.

I put the dedicated radial in because Naim recommend it in the user guide. Other stuff that gets put on the forum runs the risk of being personal opinion. I would rather have clear recommendations from Naim regarding installation and upgrade paths (there is a wealth on the forum but the essential is hard to find and recognise). Of course recommendations from Naim on stuff such as better cables makes it possible to ask why it was not provided.  Much of the problems over the Uniti Core could have been avoided if US users knew that their metadata would be ignored.

Constructive debate welcome.

I have an Ikea triple USB PSU on a switched multiplug - I don't hear a difference in my system with it on or off.

But there again I have so much RF crap floating around my house that I've had to go mad with ferrites to try and deal with it, so that may be why I don't hear it.  In fact the amount of crap at 2.4GHz is so much that my computer randomly wakes up from sleep when the wireless mouse receiver is falsely triggered.

james n posted:
The Strat (Fender) posted:

Very disappointed. I was in Waitrose last night and from what I could see the power lines on the back of their freezers are no different to the type that Aldi use 

You can get Cryo'd Lemon Drizzle Cake - that must be good ?

Ah, so that's why some frozen lemon drizzle cakes taste better than others - it's how well they've been cryoed!

I agree that not all linear power supplies are better than all SMPSs. It is also true that not all SMPSs are created equally. It appears the SMPS on the UnitiServe is indeed a decent one. However I still heard an improvement when a decent cuddly toy linear supply replaced it.

For £23 complete, the SMPS supplied with the GS105 Prosafe Gigabit Netgear switch (that is £23 for switch and SMPS) must be built to a cost. I suspect (but have no data ) that any noise generated (or induced) by the switch could be rather readily injected into the music Ethernet network as the switch itself is a fundamental connection in that network. So I took a £50 (IIRC) punt and substituted the cheap SMPS supplied with the Netgear switch with a better quality SMPS with claims of noise cancelling technology (iFi iPower model) and things sounded better. If you search back on here you can read how it sounded better to me.

Placebo effect? Possibly. If it sounds better in my head then it sounds better. Good value IMHO. Anyway this is the only data and evidence I have.

Having now consumed several lemon drizzle cakes in the interests of scientific advancement the mere mention of cake makes me a little queasy. So can we please drop the LDC references? Cheers.

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