microrendu to dac v1

Hi all, 

posted about streaming options a while ago and was pointed towards a microrendu. It does look like a good option but I am a bit of a techno idiot. I currently run my Dac v1 from a Sonos. I stream tidal as well as off my WD cloud connected to my router. If I was to replace my Sonos with a microrendu is there any way I can control the system on my tablet without Roon? I really like the sound of Roon but don't like the idea of monthly fee (job not that secure - yes I know I shouldn't be buying any new hi fi kit but....)

also a lot of people say they run Roon through hq player. I don't want to have a computer on all the time so can I incorporate that?

 

thanks for help people.

Original Post

You don't need Roon.  The Linn Kazoo App (android and iOS) will allow you to send music from a Upnp server to a microRendu.  If you have Tidal or Qobuz you will need to first install BubbleUpnp Server Software on the mR and configure a Open Home control point (this is a few clicks of a mouse on the mR setup page).  

This is not the only way, but it works.  

 

I never used Sonos, but I am assuming that you have another PC or NAS with your music on it.

UpnP  is software that you install on a computer pice of hardware (such as a a NAS, mac mini, Nuc, Vortexbox, etc. It allows one to stream files from that device to another, typically using control point software on a tablet to make it play. 

Everybody raves about Roon on the mR because it's supposedly the best sounding mode, but there are other modes as well, including, upnp, squeezelite and bubble servers, etc. 

 

I run one into a DAC V1 and it will sweep the floor of the Sonos (most things will) though if you're big on radio, etc then you'll best be running Logitech Media Server I would imagine. Google is your friend, and check out the Sonore forum over at Compute Audiophile. 

From my quick search jt would seem that you could run two ways moving from Sonos.  First is as we have been discussing and enabling the built in Upnp server on your WD Cloud.  It seems to have something built in that you could use. Secondly, It appears that sonos just accesses the files directly.  The MicroRendu can do this also.  You could use the drive mounter app to point the mR at your music files directly.  Then you would use a mpd client to access.  

It may be a good idea to check out the MicroRendu Threads on the computer audiophike forums.  The are in the Sonore moderated forum.  Lots if really good info there.

The learnibg curve is a bit much, totally agreed.  So MPD literally is Music Player Daemon.  It is  music player software that is used in Unix/Linux environments.  Currently you use the excellent Sonos app to decide what song is to be played.  The mR does not have an "app".  It is a very flexible piece of hardware that needs configured.  So first you decide how you want to use it.  If you choose to use just MPD you will neet to configure the mR to look at you music files.  You would do this with a program on the mR called Drive Mounter.  This tells the mR where your files are.  After this you need an app to choose what songs to play.  Tnis would be a MPD client to be run on your tablet/phone.

Instead of this you could choose to use a Upnp server.  This seems to be built into your WD Cloud.  You will need to enable this and point it at your music files.  Now you need a client software on tabket/phone to direct the music from the Server to the mR.  I am using the Linn Kazoo.  

This probably sounds more difficult that it is.  Lastly if you are using Tidal or Qobuz therr is another step.  

Sonos is very plug and play, very easy to setup and use.  This is a bit tougher setup because of the flexibility, but once setup it should be as easy as Sonos to use.

 

 

 

 

sjw posted:

Sonos software and app is just superb - no-one else comes near it and is both easy to use and stable.

Shame none else gets near it no matter how expensive the product!

I broadly agree with your statement, especially in the context of getting everything up and running. I'm a big fan of what Sonos is and does. I have a Connect and Play 1.

As a Roon user I feel that the extended metadata support they provide is significantly better than anything Sonos has. Song lyrics, album reviews, commentary, artist biographies with additional links to their home pages, Wikipedia etc are all things that Sonos could and should offer. 

Hi Neil,

Just to reassure you the microRendu is very easy to set up. It basically boils down to clicking on one of 4 or 5 buttons to choose which mode you want it in. 

There is a little work involved to setup your NAS, but as others have said it sounds harder than it really is. It's worth keeping in mind that if you dropped 4 or 5 figures on a top of the line Naim streamer and power supply you'd still need to set up a NAS. Sonos is the clear leader here, as I said in my previous post to @SJW.

The small effort is worth it :-) Since I got my microRendu I haven't used my Sonos Connect. I'm planning to turn it off this weekend.

Obviously you must let your ears decide but I urge you to read around the subject before committing any money. 

Historical posts on this Forum provide some reasonably favourable comparisons between sonos (plus external DAC) and naim streamers. A search on this site will help.

Also be aware that (Google is you friend) the microRendu appears to be very sensitive to the power supply you use with it. 

I really like Sonos, it's app is superb and intuitive, the system works for disk play, UPnP and web streaming. However from a SQ perspective a Naim streamer like NDX into external DAC is light years ahead of the Sonos Connect into the same app.. the differences are so huge it's not funny.. I'm sure it's down to that ever so critical transport clock stability and transport bandwidth.. but this doesn't detract from the great usability of Sonos. Now a Sonos app and functionality  with a Naim sound would be something.

Simon

Simon,

At the risk of appearing rude(honestly the last thing I want to do):

http://forums.naimaudio.com/to...dx-digital-in?page=1

I would not argue that the Naim streaming sources are not 'better' - but light years? 

Anyway - my main concern here is that I have read some less than flattering things about the microRendu (I was interested so did some background reading) and I just wanted to point this out to the OP.

I too think the Sonos is a great device with supporting application. I would have agreed with Simon and the 'light years' statement a year ago, but, having done a few tweaks I actually think the sound quality is surprisingly good; that said Quboz via the microRendu is simply better.

WRT mR and adverse commentary: There was a storm (in a teacup) started by one site / poster. He later admitted that his methodology was flawed, in a number of respects. This also led to criticism of the IFI PSU. IFI had some independent tests run, I believe, and posted the results online. Regardless of this I decided to buy the mR and have been very pleased with the results, even with an IFI PSU. I also have an SBOOSTER on order, as recommended by Hans Beekhuysen, and will be giving that a spin when it arrives.

Listening to Quboz via the mR has been interesting. It is hard to do proper comparisons as the recordings I have are not necessarily the same master as those on Q. My general impression is that via the mR I don't suffer any digititus (if you know what I mean), in fact I feel that the music is rolled off at the top end. Overall the SQ depends, as always, on the quality of the master. I have a playlist where I compare two versions of the same song on Q to demonstrate 'poor' against 'good'. I was listening to Roger Walters live version of The Wall last night and was simply blown away by how good it is.

WRT setting up the mR, the different modes represent different complexities. If you have no NAS and little networking experience then there is a journey involved ....but, this is a very helpful forum.

Jump in, the water is surprisingly warm. You can get a SUPERB digital front end for a great price.

M

Mattnbarns posted:

Simon,

At the risk of appearing rude(honestly the last thing I want to do):

http://forums.naimaudio.com/to...dx-digital-in?page=1

I would not argue that the Naim streaming sources are not 'better' - but light years? 

Anyway - my main concern here is that I have read some less than flattering things about the microRendu (I was interested so did some background reading) and I just wanted to point this out to the OP.

Matt

Ok we are all (or mostly all)  guilty of hyperbole sometimes - and light years is perhaps a meaningless comparison other than trying to convey truly significant. And that it is - listen to music fed by a Sonos transport and then compare to a NDX transport - and the latter just comes alive - is three dimensional and it just feels real - when the recording allows - where as Sonos sounds more run of the mill.

So to me that is truly significant - whether its light years to not - I'll let others decide

I'm about to hit the ''add to cart'' button on the microRendu. I've been waiting for an affordable replacement for my SB Touch for some time.

Refused to pay outrageous money for high end streamers with crappy software that depreciate rapidly and offer only marginal benefits in sound quality.

The MR seems to be the ticket. I'm just hoping the sound quality will live up to expectations vs the SB Touch. Because other than that I would have no reason to change.

Now I just need to decide on which power supply to get and which USB DAC to pair it with.

Iconclast-

I tried for years to like the Squeezebox Touch.  I tried multiple DACs and configurations.  I tried multiple pre-amp and amps.  I can say without reservation that the mR is way better than the SBT.  So much so that I have mine for sale.  If you are in the USA and you decide you would rather have the SBT than the mR I'll make you a deal for mine with iFi USB Power supply plus cash for your mR.  

I am confident that this will not end up being a deal we have to do.

OK guys I'm sold.

@ Brubacca Thanks for the offer but even if I'm disappointed, which I doubt, I won't be needing another Squeezebox.

@ T38.45  I hate redundancy and clutter so I don't want to have to order a second PSU a month from now but I am on a rather tight budget so I still need to think that part over before ordering. A few hrs of research at the most and the mR will be in the pipeline.

Last time I checked mR is backordered. (i'm already angling to get a second one). I also have just ordered Teddy Pardo 7V supply.  The iFi sounds good, but in combination with my DAC ( Schiit Gumby) the mR runs hot.  By all reports getting a better supply yields sonic benefits, which I'll be ably to test when the TP gets here. Also depending on DAC you choose the unit can run hot on a 9V supply.  

Not sure shipping time to east coast USA from Israel, but I'm hoping that I'll have the TP in the next two weeks.

Good Luck.

Brubacca posted:

Last time I checked mR is backordered. (i'm already angling to get a second one). I also have just ordered Teddy Pardo 7V supply.  The iFi sounds good, but in combination with my DAC ( Schiit Gumby) the mR runs hot.  By all reports getting a better supply yields sonic benefits, which I'll be ably to test when the TP gets here. Also depending on DAC you choose the unit can run hot on a 9V supply.  

Not sure shipping time to east coast USA from Israel, but I'm hoping that I'll have the TP in the next two weeks.

Good Luck.

The iFi is 9V. The 2 extra Vs account for the heat.

Your setup is pretty much what I had in mind. I was trying to save a few bucks by opting for a Mojo instead of the Schitt MB but I'm afraid its 3V output into a Naim pre might be a bad match. In addition Chord DACs seem to lean towards the cool side of neutral so I need to be cautious with system matching. Haven't been able to get any feedback around here regarding the Naim/Mojo combination.

I still have one other nagging concern. Someone over on the CA forum commented that his mR sounded thin and harsh, that he was really disappointed and was watching more TV since acquiring it. He's feeding it into a Bricasti DAC and is using high end cables throughout. Defective unit, software issues?

The last thing I want is to spend money only to end up with a very detailed but brittle, thin, clinical sound. But this seems to be an isolated case so I'm not too worried.

Iconoclast, FWIW over at SinS towers the Hugo is pretty neutral, the TT leaned ever so slightly to the warm side in the mids.. however this would be easy to get used to. Setting the level correctly for Naim and using the correct interconnect (Hiline in my case) appears crucial for the optimum presentation.

Mr Underhill, I can't help feeling 50 degrees C is too hot. Without any forced air flow or fans that would imply some internal components are a lot hotter, and that sort of temp is going to shorten their life. Also where precision clocks are involved, as in audio transports, it's usually best to avoid relatively extreme temperatures.

Simon

Hi Simon,

I agree. In fact John Swenson did give a commentary about the mR temparature, including:

Temperatures above the "I can't hold my finger on the surface" will not immediately fry the microRendu, but they will decrease it's operating lifetime. It's a cumulative thing, finding out that it was running really for a few hours is not going to cause any problem, it is the running really really hot 24/7 for months that will shorten the lifespan.

The 50c is an guesstimate - I'll apply a bit more science. In the meantime I have taken to turning it off between listening sessions. Looking forward to getting the 6v SBOOSTER.

M

 

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Iconoclast, FWIW over at SinS towers the Hugo is pretty neutral, the TT leaned ever so slightly to the warm side in the mids.. however this would be easy to get used to. Setting the level correctly for Naim and using the correct interconnect (Hiline in my case) appears crucial for the optimum presentation.

In the Chord lineup I'm only interested in the Mojo and after checking owner's manual it appears that line level output is fixed at 3V.

As for the interconnect, the only possibility for Mojo > Nait XS 2 would be a 1/8" (3.5 mm) plug to dual RCA.

For each solution one or more problems arise.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Ok, I don't think 3 volts is going to get the best from a Naim NAC.. perhaps the Nait XS2 is different. I find setting the Hugo to peaking at around 500mV has sounded best for both my 282 and 252.

Simon

Good morning Simon,

I currently have a Chord 2Qute (Roon > microRendu > 2Qute) as a source into my 272 so your comment re 3v caught my eye.

The 2Qute has been in place for some 6-weeks now and I've not had any issues with the 3v as far as i'm aware. In fact my system is sounding the best it has ever done.

Can I ask why 3v is an issue and in what way would it manifest itself?

Thanks

Paul

 

 

 

 

Paul, there is no issue with 3 volts as such, it's just many of us have found on the Hugo and TT with their Naim NACs (282, 252, 552) setting the line output voltage to turquoise (approx 500mV) seems to provide the best SQ.. The DAC seems to ebb and flow better into the NAC , there is often greater space around instruments or mix channels and genereally seems to sound more open. At this level I think  it would be a crying shame if one couldn't reap the benefits of these incredible sources. Of course the N272 could be designed differently from the NACs so perform differently.

Simon

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Paul, there is no issue with 3 volts as such, it's just many of us have found on the Hugo and TT with their Naim NACs (282, 252, 552) setting the line output voltage to turquoise (approx 500mV) seems to provide the best SQ.. The DAC seems to ebb and flow better into the NAC , there is often greater space around instruments or mix channels and genereally seems to sound more open. At this level I think  it would be a crying shame if one couldn't reap the benefits of these incredible sources. Of course the N272 could be designed differently from the NACs so perform differently.

Simon

Thanks for that Simon,

I'll contact Naim HQ and ask their opinion in context of the 272.

Is it worth looking at Rothwell in-line attenuators or are they going to degrade the SQ?

Thanks again.

 

 

I can't help feeling inline attenuators are not going to be ideal.. you might need to suck it and see.

i think the NACs and probably also the N272 have a huge input headroom, so I doubt you will have clipping issues, and these would be very audible... but it might be also a load/impedance thing between the Hugo and the Naim NAC.. and obviously our ears are very sensitive to the effects of this.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I can't help feeling inline attenuators are not going to be ideal.. you might need to suck it and see.

i think the NACs and probably also the N272 have a huge input headroom, so I doubt you will have clipping issues, and these would be very audible... but it might be also a load/impedance thing between the Hugo and the Naim NAC.. and obviously our ears are very sensitive to the effects of this.

Thanks and I'll see what Naim HQ have to say.

I've tried Rothwells in the past(still own them) and didn't like what they did to the sound. In any case I think it would be a shame to introduce an extra connector/resistor between a high end cable/source. Sort of defies the purpose and I'd only use them as a last resort.

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RobH
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