Naim app update

blag posted:
blag posted:

Now this is puzzling...

Since the Android upgrade to v 2.0, I find that when I select an entire album to play from my NAS via the naim app, some tracks appear in the track listing multiple times. These are, of course, added to any queues, and have to be manually deleted from the queue, which is a PITA, or the tracks play multiple times. The number of multiples seems to be random, sometimes two, sometimes three, but never more.

I have interrogated the server via its proprietary software and from my PC. As far as I can see none of the albums contain multiple 'copies'of these tracks, other than in the naim app. There doesn't seem to be any pattern to this, other than the same album always has the same 'ghosts'.

I tried resetting the naim app (several times), but that doesn't resolve the problem. I have rebooted the NAS (several times) with no success.

Suggestions warmly welcomed, please.

SOLVED!!

NAS database out-of-date. BOHHH!

Approx. 25% more files/tracks listed in the database than actually exist. Discovered this by checking albums via Bubble UPNP, which showed exactly the same 'ghost' tracks.

Bizarre, though, that neither the Server's 'native' software, nor Windows showed any duplicates. Maybe these do not reference the NAS's database.

Now the problem is, that I cannot find an option for automatic re-scan and rebuild of the database!!

Perhaps you could try deleting the database. Renaming the file should be enough for the server to rebuild it and give you a temporary backup. 

blag posted:

SOLVED!!

NAS database out-of-date. BOHHH!

Approx. 25% more files/tracks listed in the database than actually exist. Discovered this by checking albums via Bubble UPNP, which showed exactly the same 'ghost' tracks.

Bizarre, though, that neither the Server's 'native' software, nor Windows showed any duplicates. Maybe these do not reference the NAS's database.

Now the problem is, that I cannot find an option for automatic re-scan and rebuild of the database!!

Correct.  The server's own file handling software and Windows (or a Mac for that matter) only look at the file system on the disk, they don't look at the media server's database index to those files - that's only accessed when going through the DLNA / UPnP media server itself.

Adam Zielinski posted:
Johnell posted:

 

BTW Is the Apple version working ok?

Apple iOS-based application works OK and is stable.

Thanks for that Adam.

Forgetting the Android problem for the moment, are there any major differences between the two versions or is it just "look and feel"?  Has anybody done a direct comparison?

blag posted:
blag posted:

Now this is puzzling...

Since the Android upgrade to v 2.0, I find that when I select an entire album to play from my NAS via the naim app, some tracks appear in the track listing multiple times. These are, of course, added to any queues, and have to be manually deleted from the queue, which is a PITA, or the tracks play multiple times. The number of multiples seems to be random, sometimes two, sometimes three, but never more.

I have interrogated the server via its proprietary software and from my PC. As far as I can see none of the albums contain multiple 'copies'of these tracks, other than in the naim app. There doesn't seem to be any pattern to this, other than the same album always has the same 'ghosts'.

I tried resetting the naim app (several times), but that doesn't resolve the problem. I have rebooted the NAS (several times) with no success.

Suggestions warmly welcomed, please.

SOLVED!!

NAS database out-of-date. BOHHH!

Approx. 25% more files/tracks listed in the database than actually exist. Discovered this by checking albums via Bubble UPNP, which showed exactly the same 'ghost' tracks.

Bizarre, though, that neither the Server's 'native' software, nor Windows showed any duplicates. Maybe these do not reference the NAS's database.

Now the problem is, that I cannot find an option for automatic re-scan and rebuild of the database!!

Hi,

I don't suppose this would have been on a WD NAS would it? We used to get a fair number of reports of this with WD NASs and their UPnP server ...

It would manifest itself as increasingly smaller sections of a music library being duplicated an increasing number of times - so maybe 30% would be listed twice, 20% three times, 10% four times etc.

Phil

Phil Harris posted:
blag posted:
blag posted:

Now this is puzzling...

Since the Android upgrade to v 2.0, I find that when I select an entire album to play from my NAS via the naim app, some tracks appear in the track listing multiple times. These are, of course, added to any queues, and have to be manually deleted from the queue, which is a PITA, or the tracks play multiple times. The number of multiples seems to be random, sometimes two, sometimes three, but never more.

I have interrogated the server via its proprietary software and from my PC. As far as I can see none of the albums contain multiple 'copies'of these tracks, other than in the naim app. There doesn't seem to be any pattern to this, other than the same album always has the same 'ghosts'.

I tried resetting the naim app (several times), but that doesn't resolve the problem. I have rebooted the NAS (several times) with no success.

Suggestions warmly welcomed, please.

SOLVED!!

NAS database out-of-date. BOHHH!

Approx. 25% more files/tracks listed in the database than actually exist. Discovered this by checking albums via Bubble UPNP, which showed exactly the same 'ghost' tracks.

Bizarre, though, that neither the Server's 'native' software, nor Windows showed any duplicates. Maybe these do not reference the NAS's database.

Now the problem is, that I cannot find an option for automatic re-scan and rebuild of the database!!

Hi,

I don't suppose this would have been on a WD NAS would it? We used to get a fair number of reports of this with WD NASs and their UPnP server ...

It would manifest itself as increasingly smaller sections of a music library being duplicated an increasing number of times - so maybe 30% would be listed twice, 20% three times, 10% four times etc.

Phil

Phil

Spot on, Sir!!

Yes, a WD 'MyCloud' is the NAS.

I have discovered that the 'automatic' update for the database doesn't seem to be reliable, so now I've set it up to re-scan and rebuild every 24 hours. This seems to have resolved the problem.

Mike

Phil Harris posted:
Johnell posted:

I am experiencing exactly the same search problems in Tidal with the new Android app version. I think it is because the app now filters in real time instead of waiting for the search criteria to be completed which from a usability point of view is incredibly slow and frustrating. Another problem is that none of my recent searches are listed. I am very surprised that this wasn't found in testing or if it was found it was deemed to be acceptable. It really does need to be sorted.

For info it is the same on 3 different tablets and a phone so it has nothing to do with hardware or Android versions. 

 

Hi,

This issue has been reported and logged and I believe a fix will be in the next Android release.

Best

Phil

Hi Phil, it's now three months since the log, and no solution. Worse even, no update's of the app since, and not a single piece of information. Not even a hint when the next version will come out. 

So now I serious doubt the ability of Naim to support it's customers properly. As said before, I don't expect Naim to be changed in a proper software company, but three months without even a sign of a new release is ridiculous for any consumer focussed company. 

Also, I don't care for the cost of Tidal, it's only very annoying I can't use it. The thing is, why spending money on a XPS- DR to complement my NDX when Naim just doesn't know how to support it's customers? So this plan is off the table. 

After three months of complete silence, when o when can we expect a new release? Still another three months? A year? Ever?

 

 

Hi all, apologies for this boring bit at the start - just a little context, really.

I'm not a software designer, programmer, etc., or in any way particularly competent technically.  But I have worked in partnership with many of them for a number of large multinational organisations (commercial companies, NGOs and the public sector).  My background is in editorial and subsequently spent a large part of my career heading up teams involved with communicating with employees and customers.  This included helping to launch software solutions for both employees and customers. Part of our brief was to test functionality and ease of use, etc., for new systems - particularly when two large multinationals had merged and were bringing together two often non-compatible systems.

One of the things we did was develop a checklist that asked questions such as "if you've changed this in any way (appearance, functionality, etc) does it still work?". This sounds simple, but that wasn't always the case.  Often it involved sitting down with the developers for a number of hours and asking them what they'd changed, why they'd changed it, how they'd changed it and why - and if it actually did something it didn't do before, or did it better, etc.  It was very time consuming (a bit like reading this post, I'm afraid - sorry everyone), but worth doing.

Even doing this, bugs sometimes slipped through.  I used to beat myself up whenever that happened. 

We used to go through a similar process with internal clients when they were launching a new product or service, and work with them on things that included managing customer and stakeholder expectations pre-launch (and reaction and issues post-launch).  If third parties (vendors, for example) we used to make sure - as much as is humanly possible - they had the most up to date and realistic information.  We also provided vendors with a "manual" about the new product or service, which in addition to FAQ included the key points we wanted them to empasise to their customers, etc.

I really have rambled on, I'm afraid, and don't think I've added anything.  I think I'm just becoming an old fart talking about the old days!  Better go and listen to some music.

All good wishes to everyone.

 

Phil Harris posted:

Hi,

I do realise that the delay has been frustrating but the next Android release will be to support Atom so should be in the next two to three weeks...

Best Regards

Phil

Thanks, Phil, that's at least something about the timeframe of the next release. 

Nice to see that this release supports Atom. Not of any use to me off course. Or anyone, as Atom is not delivered to customers.

So, will the bugs flagged months ago be fixed too? Also, is the release scheme of the app only depending on new products, not for bugfixing for existing users? Because the way I read your comments, the next release is for Atom support. Period. Nothing on bugfixing. 

 

Not to be rude, just to point out that communication could improve too. Or at least that customers who invested in Naim have a certain expectation here. 

BigH47 posted:

I know that the latest editions don't affect me or my system, but just to let you know the basic system is functioning well from iPhone 5s and iPadmini.

By all accounts the Apple version has always functioned properly.....it's the Android version that's flaky.

Johnell posted:
BigH47 posted:

I know that the latest editions don't affect me or my system, but just to let you know the basic system is functioning well from iPhone 5s and iPadmini.

By all accounts the Apple version has always functioned properly.....it's the Android version that's flaky.

The iOS app has been in development and use for quite a bit longer, and for some time was the only option. I certainly wouldn't say that it always functioned properly, it had it's fair share of glitches along the way. I do find it to be pretty good now, though, maybe the Android version has a little catching up to do?

@ChrisSU Thanks for that.  The only time I've used the iOS app was at Signals and Alistair said at the time that it had a better "feel" than the Android version.  

I'll see how the new Android build works and make a decision from there but maybe a used early ipad is the way to go.......

Johnell posted:

@ChrisSU Thanks for that.  The only time I've used the iOS app was at Signals and Alistair said at the time that it had a better "feel" than the Android version.  

I'll see how the new Android build works and make a decision from there but maybe a used early ipad is the way to go.......

While the Android app has perhaps lagged behind the iOS version a little, my limited experience of it is that it works well enough, and I would be tempted to hang fire. 

If you do go for an 'early iPad' bear in mind that the current Naim app requires the device to run iOS 9.3 or later, and this might change again with later app versions. 

Ok, version 2.1 is released. And I'm happy to report that the search function in Tidal works again. Not in the way that it worked previously, it still searches on the fly, so you cannot press "enter" to initiate the search. You have to wait a second for the results to come up. Pressing enter will result in no results. 

I would have seen it otherwise, but it works. So more a matter of preference. 

Also, searches are not all stored. Tried 10 or so, only one was kept under "recent searches." The layout is also a bit strange, I use the black backgroud, but the recent search area is changing in size and is dak blue.

The result area is also changing, sometimes I see artist and album, sometimes a tile layout is displayed with just album covers and three dots so you can't see which artist it is. In both portrait or landscape mode. 

In short, feels like a rushed release. But at least I can use Tidal and UPNP seaching again, so thanks for that.

Mr. Jensen posted:

Everytime I use the app on the IPad it starts to search for rooms until I use the remote control and activate the radio. 

Im so tired of this.....

BR

Henrik

Henrik

This thread is for the Android app. There is another thread for the IOS app and you should post there so that Naim can see the problem (not sure they yet believe this a big issue).

best

David

Something I've noticed - although it started happening before the latest update -  is that editing metadata with n-Serve causes the edited cd to appear in the 'Last Played' section of the app, even though the cd has not been played.

In addition, but not consistently, files added to the Download folder also show up there, again before being played.

Richard Morris posted:

Something I've noticed - although it started happening before the latest update -  is that editing metadata with n-Serve causes the edited cd to appear in the 'Last Played' section of the app, even though the cd has not been played.

In addition, but not consistently, files added to the Download folder also show up there, again before being played.

This has always been the case for as long as I can remember. There are also differences between the Last Played and Newly Added lists in N-Serve, and the equivalent lists in the Naim app, which on the face of it would seem to make a mockery of the assertion that the streamer/control point can only show the information presented to it by the server.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Chris, in the Naim world it's the streamer that tells the Naim App the information about the media data itself  (once it is playing). On the steamers (as opposed to the file players) the playlist from the Naim app is downloaded to the streamer and played from the streamer memory... and not the Naim app.

It still strikes me as rather odd that the Naim app can get the Last Played and Recently Added lists wrong, even when the N-Serve app gets them right (using Unitiserve over UPnP to a Naim streamer.)

ChrisSU posted:
Richard Morris posted:

Something I've noticed - although it started happening before the latest update -  is that editing metadata with n-Serve causes the edited cd to appear in the 'Last Played' section of the app, even though the cd has not been played.

In addition, but not consistently, files added to the Download folder also show up there, again before being played.

This has always been the case for as long as I can remember. There are also differences between the Last Played and Newly Added lists in N-Serve, and the equivalent lists in the Naim app, which on the face of it would seem to make a mockery of the assertion that the streamer/control point can only show the information presented to it by the server.

Hi Chris,

The Last Played lists for local playback and UPnP playback are separate entities and so the last played list maintained by the UPnP server will inherently be different to that for the local playback queue.

As far as When browsing UPnP lists the lists are generated in real time by the UPnP server - the UPnP control point / UPnP client scans the network for UPnP servers and lists them. Once a UPnP server is selected then the UPnP server is then solely responsible for what is displayed and it simply issues lists to the UPnP client (which can also include an image if appropriate) with the UPnP Client responding with the item number in the list that has been chosen and the UPnP server then generating either another sub-list to display or a link to a virtual file to play.

Of course the UPnP client / control point could - say - do a Google (or whatever) search for any of the data that is sent to it by the UPnP server ... so for instance lets say that you're browsing or playing "Tango In The Night" by Fleetwood Mac then there's nothing to say that the app can't use the information associated with that album in additional functionality (which is what we do with the album notes function).

Cheers

Phil

Phil Harris posted:
ChrisSU posted:
Richard Morris posted:

Something I've noticed - although it started happening before the latest update -  is that editing metadata with n-Serve causes the edited cd to appear in the 'Last Played' section of the app, even though the cd has not been played.

In addition, but not consistently, files added to the Download folder also show up there, again before being played.

This has always been the case for as long as I can remember. There are also differences between the Last Played and Newly Added lists in N-Serve, and the equivalent lists in the Naim app, which on the face of it would seem to make a mockery of the assertion that the streamer/control point can only show the information presented to it by the server.

Hi Chris,

The Last Played lists for local playback and UPnP playback are separate entities and so the last played list maintained by the UPnP server will inherently be different to that for the local playback queue.

As far as When browsing UPnP lists the lists are generated in real time by the UPnP server - the UPnP control point / UPnP client scans the network for UPnP servers and lists them. Once a UPnP server is selected then the UPnP server is then solely responsible for what is displayed and it simply issues lists to the UPnP client (which can also include an image if appropriate) with the UPnP Client responding with the item number in the list that has been chosen and the UPnP server then generating either another sub-list to display or a link to a virtual file to play.

Of course the UPnP client / control point could - say - do a Google (or whatever) search for any of the data that is sent to it by the UPnP server ... so for instance lets say that you're browsing or playing "Tango In The Night" by Fleetwood Mac then there's nothing to say that the app can't use the information associated with that album in additional functionality (which is what we do with the album notes function).

Cheers

Phil

Hi Phil, thanks for the explanation. What I find a little odd is that I never use local playback on my US, but it still generates a last played list. Not only that, but it is an accurate list of the albums I've played over UPnP, controlled by the Naim app, yet the Naim app last played list is the one that is often incorrect. Bit of a first world problem, and not one I lose sleep over, just seems a bit odd!

Chris

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