Naim new products 2018

Daft Apeth posted:

Both wrong but that is to be expected on a single church forum like this one. If you think a SuperNait of any description holds the faintest candle to the Vitus 100 amp then God bless and goodnight lol..

I hear you! LOL....

But it is a Naim Forum!

Allante93!

Allante93 posted:
Gazza posted:

They are not attending CES

 

Well, they surprised us!

 

Friends

Most high-end audio companies are opting out of CES. CES itself has become less welcoming choosing to emphasize other developments in electronics like home automation and self driving vehicles. And, much like Britain, we now have several audio only specialist shows.

 

Now that the trend in HiFi is lesser boxes, Naim will create a new integrated amp with Dac to compete with likes of the Hegel H190 (£3,200), an amp which will work well with analogue and digital connections and will drive most speakers. 

Gazza posted:

That’s Uniti Atom, Star or Nova......£2k to £4K, unlikely to do anything else in this area for a while IMO.

I know that Naim power is supposed to be consistent but its nice to have a component which actually has a bit of oomph and not worry about the speakers to partner with...!

Nova is 80watts per channel and can drive most loads........they are not likely to do anything much different, not in their DNA to do a higher output needing numerous output transistors. That in the opinion affects pace and timing, hence even a NAP 500 is only a modest 140w amp on paper. You should pop into a dealer and hear the new Uniti range.

I know about Statement but I do not believe Naim are going to do a 300w Hegel type integrated amp/dac for £3200, its just not in their DNA. And they have just brought out a whole range of amps covering the Hegel price range. As ever, the OP needs to listen to a Hegel 190, and compare to say Nova or Star. The rated output does mean it will sound better or even as good, particularly if the OP likes the Naim sound.

well I'd rather have a Naim amp, and a compatible speaker...  why are 300 watts needed?

My NAP  250 can drive my speakers to all the volume my ears can tolerate.

Even a Nap 100 can do that... 

the 140 watts was not a design brief of the NAP 500, it was a result of the bridge design which was primarily to eliminate the return speaker currents from flowing back into signal earth

 

I can see the streamer range being completely updated to match(ish) the Uniti design (front facing) and platform. That's a no-brainer. First on the list.

The 272 is then the anomaly, but might take longer - to justify the price positioning, it must be better than just a Nova with the power amp taken out. On which topic, I can see a SuperNova Uniti product arriving too. After all, there was a SuperUniti, and if you call a product Nova then surely … no? Come on, has to be done.

If it were me, I would make the SuperNova a two-box solution: a pre/streamer replacement for the 272, and a matching power amp. Buy them separately, or together.

2017 was the year of getting the Uniti range out of the door (eventually). 2018 is the year of fixing bugs and extending the Uniti platform across the range. Other than maybe updating the Musos, everything else will just be tweaks.

Solid Air posted:

I can see the streamer range being completely updated to match(ish) the Uniti design (front facing) and platform. That's a no-brainer. First on the list.

The 272 is then the anomaly, but might take longer - to justify the price positioning, it must be better than just a Nova with the power amp taken out. On which topic, I can see a SuperNova Uniti product arriving too. After all, there was a SuperUniti, and if you call a product Nova then surely … no? Come on, has to be done.

If it were me, I would make the SuperNova a two-box solution: a pre/streamer replacement for the 272, and a matching power amp. Buy them separately, or together.

2017 was the year of getting the Uniti range out of the door (eventually). 2018 is the year of fixing bugs and extending the Uniti platform across the range. Other than maybe updating the Musos, everything else will just be tweaks.

If the Nova reviews are correct then they imply that a Nova used as a streamer/pre sounds better than a bare 272.

That means you are paying £500 more to have the option of using the power amp and getting the new streaming system but denying yourself the option to spend a chunk more money for the improvements that an XPS etc can bring...

Seems to be that a 272 is a hard sell in that environment. I'd like to buy one but I simply will not pay >3.5k on streaming tech that is on its way out. I'd wait until the second hand pricing fully reflects the redundancy and/or the new box is available. It NEEDS replacing.

If they could sell a new streaming tech (and presume digital preamp?) 272 at current 272 pricing then the £500 saving plus the option to add a PSU  would make sense to me even if it sounded the same as a Nova used as a preamp.

 

 

Yes, good points. I haven't heard a direct comparison. They could raise the bar of a Uniti/272 sonically to provide some clear water between it and the Nova, or make a 272 like the Nova (minus the power amp) and offer a better power amp to go with it (which could take external power).

I do think they need an upgrade path above the Nova, and it doesn't make sense to continue with the 272 as is. Like you, I won't invest in 'old' tech, so I'm waiting for the next generation. But, speaking personally, I won't wait forever. Starting to wonder if I shouldn't give some alternatives a listen - Bryston BDP-3 anyone?

In the last such thread, I predicted (OK requested) a better one-box power amp than the 250.2, and Naim eventually obliged with the 250DR. So now I'm going to ask for two things:

- A6 speaker cable. Compared to A5, SQ about 50% of the way to SuperLumina, but only 10-20% more expensive.

- Truly linear volume control for the classic preamps, with SQ lift comparable to DR upgrade. Like DR, retrofittable to existing units.

Don't ask, don't get.

I see Naim following a dual strategy to rationalise (and prolong) the reference series and bring it up to date and a further strengthening of the lifestyle range for the new wave of buyers looking for premium and stylish integrated solutions (Uniti/Muso).

For the reference/classic range, to satisfy the significant demand from old boy box collectors, I predict both 272 and NDX replacements with the new streaming platform and retaining the classic casing. They will sell like hotcakes. Quite a bit of pent-up demand for these now. It also wouldn't surprise me to see the 5 series dropped in the next few years since new Naim entrants will likely come in via the new Muso or Uniti range.

For development of Lifestyle products, maybe some more Muso series limited editions and colours and as said earlier, maybe a super premium Uniti SuperNova.

Corry posted:

In the last such thread, I predicted (OK requested) a better one-box power amp than the 250.2, and Naim eventually obliged with the 250DR. So now I'm going to ask for two things:

- A6 speaker cable. Compared to A5, SQ about 50% of the way to SuperLumina, but only 10-20% more expensive.

- Truly linear volume control for the classic preamps, with SQ lift comparable to DR upgrade. Like DR, retrofittable to existing units.

Don't ask, don't get.

well the Superlumina lite cable is in great demand.

But I don't think Naim will make one - as A5 is really very very good.

Maybe A5 with Superlumina plugs though?

FWIW I predict:

Within the next six months: New streamer range (ND555, NDX2) plus possibly HDX and NAC272 replacements. All in the existing Classic style (will they make a Core in matching Classic casework I wonder?) but with larger colour screens and based on the new Uniti platform. 

Not much else. Pre/Power updates 1-2 years later. 

I suspect there won’t be an HDX replacement.. more likely if there is an NDS/X2 then it will contain disk mount functionality in it as well as UPnP streaming and be be able to play from shares directly... these days it makes no real sense to my mind in having completely separate products for these two different network access methods.... and of course the little Sonos does this.. combine disk access and UPnP support via a single interface.

From sly nods and winks I have been given I am pretty sure that there is, as a minimum, an NDS 2 on the way shortly.

Given that it appears unlikely that an upgrade would be available, all I hope is that if it does go down the style route of the new streamers then there will be an option to retain the classic style as it will look a bit strange in many systems against the current classic look.

When asked why the new Uniti range did not have the off board power supply option Naim said that the new architecture had such a low noise floor, it would not benefit. Begs the question would the Classic range still benefit on the new architecture? Guess we will have to wait and see, perhaps the Bristol show will throw up some clues.

Gazza posted:

When asked why the new Uniti range did not have the off board power supply option Naim said that the new architecture had such a low noise floor, it would not benefit. Begs the question would the Classic range still benefit on the new architecture? Guess we will have to wait and see, perhaps the Bristol show will throw up some clues.

When i discussed this some of the Naim design team, the answer was quite emphatic - the Naim DNA is about decoupling and seperation - and is what the classic and higher series allow users to take advantage of... and this goes to the heart of the Naim ethos.. you either subscribe or you don't.  From a performance perspective i was told there was a world of difference between the higher end classic series and the units series - and to be fair my ears confirmed that.

The Uniti series is for a different market and for those perhaps not so addicted to audio and sound quality yet value the quality of the Naim brand and performance for a given price point. It  is seen also as a possible stepping stone into the Classic erasures or 500 series for those get into audio in a bigger way. The Uniti series is more about connivence and price whilst getting the best performance Naim know from a single box - and that is why the Unitis were designed with no off board supply option - ie not best suited for their target market and probably of marginal if any benefit for the overall Uniti series performance envelope. They were also not designed to go in audio racks etc as it was felt most of the target market would not use such things - unlike the Classic and 500 series market..

JedT posted:
Solid Air posted:

I can see the streamer range being completely updated to match(ish) the Uniti design (front facing) and platform. That's a no-brainer. First on the list.

The 272 is then the anomaly, but might take longer - to justify the price positioning, it must be better than just a Nova with the power amp taken out. On which topic, I can see a SuperNova Uniti product arriving too. After all, there was a SuperUniti, and if you call a product Nova then surely … no? Come on, has to be done.

If it were me, I would make the SuperNova a two-box solution: a pre/streamer replacement for the 272, and a matching power amp. Buy them separately, or together.

2017 was the year of getting the Uniti range out of the door (eventually). 2018 is the year of fixing bugs and extending the Uniti platform across the range. Other than maybe updating the Musos, everything else will just be tweaks.

If the Nova reviews are correct then they imply that a Nova used as a streamer/pre sounds better than a bare 272.

That's interesting.  Could you please point me to the reviews that have compared SQ of the pre/streamer section of the Nova to the 272?  BTW have you done the comparison yourself?

That means you are paying £500 more to have the option of using the power amp and getting the new streaming system but denying yourself the option to spend a chunk more money for the improvements that an XPS etc can bring...

Seems to be that a 272 is a hard sell in that environment. I'd like to buy one but I simply will not pay >3.5k on streaming tech that is on its way out. I'd wait until the second hand pricing fully reflects the redundancy and/or the new box is available. It NEEDS replacing.

Well, I had an extensive audition of a bare 272 driving active ATC SCM19s and to my ears the sound was astonishingly realistic and convincing and terrific value for money, at least in the crazy world of HiFi.  I would question the competence of any dealer finding it hard to enthuse any audio enthusiast with such a setup.

If they could sell a new streaming tech (and presume digital preamp?) 272 at current 272 pricing then the £500 saving plus the option to add a PSU  would make sense to me even if it sounded the same as a Nova used as a preamp.

I wonder why the focus on the 272 for replacement.  That was the most recent streamer in the classic series as well as the most recent preamp.  Along with the DR power amps it was the most recent classic series box and has only been out around a couple of years.  If Naim moved into the "updated box every year or two" regime apparently favoured in many other parts of the audio market, I would consider changing brands.

 

Whilst the prospect of a financial hit from reduced second hand value in the event of a replacement might just be a reason for holding off purchase of a 272, doing so also forgoes (for an unknown time) the pleasure to be had from enjoying what I and at least some others regard as one of the relative bargains of the Naim range.

Roger

I having just had two faulty Novas in a row am now a firm believer in sticking with what's tried and tested!

The Nova when working was sonically excellent BUT, my new NDX/Supernait2 is in a completely different league! You mention noise floor and this is one of the stand out factors that jumped out at me instantly within a matter of minutes of playing the first couple of tracks! I would love to hear my combination with external power supplies!

Hungryhalibut posted:

It’s been said by Naim, and several times on this thread, that the classic look is to be retained. So the NDS2 will still match the rest. I’m still hoping for a 372 without onboard power supply and with a double burndy power supply option. 

Hmm, I'm not so sure. The 'classic' range is in the market now (and in the past). The NDS replacement would be new, and therefore not necessarily 'classic'.

I think perhaps Naim meant they wouldn't be reboxing current 'classic' products to match the Uniti, not that new (and therefore not classic) products wouldn't have a new box design.

 

Solid Air posted:
Hungryhalibut posted:

It’s been said by Naim, and several times on this thread, that the classic look is to be retained. So the NDS2 will still match the rest. I’m still hoping for a 372 without onboard power supply and with a double burndy power supply option. 

Hmm, I'm not so sure. The 'classic' range is in the market now (and in the past). The NDS replacement would be new, and therefore not necessarily 'classic'.

I think perhaps Naim meant they wouldn't be reboxing current 'classic' products to match the Uniti, not that new (and therefore not classic) products wouldn't have a new box design.

We’re all interpreting what Naim said... but my interpretation is the same as HH’s interpretation - that Naim would not be abandoning the “classic” Triptich design and that there would be new streamers to match the existing Classic pre and power amps.

As I recall it was stated they understood that the “volume on top” design was inappropriate for multi-box systems.

Sure - certainly not suggesting they’ll adopt the top volume, etc,  for rack-based systems, but they may take design elements from Uniti for a front-facing design. 

The NDS is in the classic range now. They could delete it and the others, launch a new range of streamers called (hypothetically) the Naim Humdinger 1, 2 and 3 - and they’re not ‘classic’.

My guess is they’ll take some cues from the Uniti range and some from the classics to keep it matching. Slow evolution. 

 

I think it is ludicrous to suggest that Naim will release new, updated products in the old casing. They never did that when they moved from CB to olive, or from olive to triptych, and why on Earth would they do it now? Statement, Muso, and now Uniti, have moved to the new style, as has the website and forum, and as new streamers are released in the Classic range, they are bound to follow suit. Naim have very carefully worded their intentions that existing Classic products will not be put into new style boxes, but as the new products will no doubt have new names and different innards, why would anybody think to put them in the old style boxes?  

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