Nap 200 , wich pre ?

Dac v1 + Nap 200  :  it's time to upgrade !

I know ....the ideal partner is the 202 , but a voice came to me :  Try a  122x  , is  more open and detalied than the 202  and  more important  thing  it costs half 

Is it possible ?

Original Post

I had a good few years with the 202 and was very happy with the end result.I then listened to a 282 and was taken a back at the difference of music replay.I know it's twice the price but personally think as stated above it's a gem of a pre amp.If time isn't a factor keep your eye open for a 282,you won't regret it.

 

Thank you guys  .....

Certainly , the 272 is the finish line  , but  I  live in Italy and  here the V1 is not popupalar ( difficult to sell ) , is more easy to keep the V1 and go for a 2'nd hand  202 , theoretically the pre section of the 272/202 sould be the same and for the streamer section I use a sotm sms-200 ( a superb network player )

 

 

Lots of good suggestions but i'm curious as to where you are trying to get to with your proposed changes T@rmac ?

To me, adding the 202 seems to be a bit of a sideways move when you've already got a decent preamp section in the DAC-V1. If you want to make the most of your digital sources then the suggestion of the 272 seems to make a lot more sense.

It would be good to know a bit more about your plans, what are your main sources, speakers etc 

James

MDS posted:

If you can afford it, I'd go for the 282. It can take a variety of PSUs and in my opinion is the best VFM pre-amp in the range. A real taste of the high-end. If you can't afford new, I suspect there are pre-loved 282s to be found. 

I would support this advice. The 282 is a great companion of the 200. Had it for some time in my own setup and brought the music really to life.

t@rmac posted:

James , my main source is a sms-200 ( Sotm ) connected to the V1 and  the speakers are  http://www.audiojam2.com/doc/Atlantys_grand_documento_sito.pdf 

Is the  the V1 pre section almost good as the 202 ? So is better to wait  and go to a 272 ?

The 202 is the 'better' pre-amp but i don't think you'd gain that much over the V1 itself, hence my sideways move comments. Best you get a demo of the options and then decide what works best for you. 

James

 

Using a V1, which includes a preamp, with another preamp, makes no sense to me. My suggestion would be to sell the SOtM and the V1, and get a 272. It’s a better preamp than a 202 and will give a better sound from a single box. That said, if Roon is essential, the SOtM handles it but the 272 doesn’t. 

analogmusic posted:

I had the v1 and still have my 202

no the preamp section of v1 isn’t that special at all

the 202 is much superior

As the DAC-V1 only has a single analogue output how can you evaluate the pre-amp section separately? It's the same audio signal path feeding your 202 whatever mode you're using the DAC-V1 in.

Dave

There is a  line level output selectable from the menu.

The 202 will leave options open for future Naim digital source releases, the 272 looks like a dead end. Besides which it,s a lot cheaper used, if box count doesn’t frighten you. You can buy a Naim DAC with the difference.

same here, I prefer the 202 as a preamp to a bare 272. a 272 with XPS is another beast, but then so is a 202 with a Hicap DR and NAPSC. I still like the 202 very much, and I own a 282 and listen to both every day, I just can't find any issue with the 202's performance.

Sometime I just wonder... the 202/200 is such a classic Naim amp with the old school musical Naim rhythmic sound, it could easily have been my end game amplifier.

Anyway - since the apparent utility of a preamp is to preserve the details and musicality at lower volumes - remember that the preamp takes a full 2.1 volt signal and has to reduce this to 1/10th of that, the 202 is much better at this than a V1.

I agree that it should not make any sense or different, yet it does, I remember Edouard used a qute (which also has the same output as V1, only through the preamp), and ran it from a 552 , and reported, that he could hear the magic of the 552 still

It doesn't make much sense to me either, but I've done this test myself.... the only explanation I can think of it that the 202 is better at keeping the signal at low volume than the V1 is.

The V1 uses a resistor ladder as volume control, but the 202 uses an ALPS pot with precious metal Wipers.... a much better volume control.

The Statement by the way does use a resistor ladder, but that one is one without any compromise in terms of materials and resistors used, there isn't space inside a DAC V1 to use that kind of no compromise resistor ladder volume control. Then the budget of parts of a V1 doesn't allow those kind of resistors either.

Maybe Richard Dane can add some comments, I'm sure he has tried his Qute into his 552?

There is an obvious superiority of the DAC-V1 'fixed' output mode over its variable pre-amp output IMO. The sms-200 (or Ultra)/  DAC-V1 combo should offer a very high quality source when V1 is used as DAC only with an equally or more transparent preamp. Its own pre-amp is then used for the headphones.

analogmusic posted:

The V1 uses a resistor ladder as volume control, but the 202 uses an ALPS pot with precious metal Wipers.... a much better volume control.

To quote the DAC-V1 design engineer:

"...the DAC-V1 incorporates a digitally controlled CMOS analogue volume control and preamp. The Class A pre-amp stage also doubles up as a high quality headphoene amplifier with the ability to drive many headphones, even high-impedance ones. There has been no comprise on the sonic performance of the DAC-V1" HiFiChoice May 2013

Dave

It baffles me, I read through this whole page and not to be rude but no one has asked what you feel your missing that the V1 isn't already giving you? and how do you listen/digest your music, Do you use your computers USB feed straight into the V1? (then V1 will still be your only option), Are you purely digital? are you hoping to get into Vynal? Do you already have a turntable? Do you already stream? Each of these will dictate what/how you should buy. No real point of a 272 if you don't stream over a network, you wouldn't be using half its functionality.

TBH there are a few options as mentioned above but all come at an expense, But above all! will it be a noticeable improvement to you to justify that expense, hence the comments about the sideways move.

good news is 202 can be had fairly cheaply

Bad news is, I've a tried a bare 202 with a DAC v1 and guess what it sounds like a V1, I'm sorry nothing changed, in my opinion, I completely agree with DAVE4JAZZ on that and adding a power supply won't change that MAYBE you get a slightly wider stage and more insight, but its not night and day in my eyes . Adding a 272 completely different story, though the V1 isn't a million miles away either. What your pumping in with the V1 is what you'll be getting out, albeit still very fine. Unfortunately, I think your next move will be an expensive one to absolutely better it. I wouldn't do it for a small tweak here and there for me it has to be a solid "yeah thats for the better" unless you have a long term plan/ goal in mind. But even if it has made difference is it a difference you like?

The v1 and nap 200 have a great synergy with a "greater than the sum of there parts" sound.  Listen to all your options before buying I really think you'll be surprised what it takes. Just  my 2 cents (probably a little more)

 
The Strat (Fender) posted:

A 272 makes sense and is very good but I would not agree with HH’s assessment  of it relevant to the 202.  But of course other factors play including which PSUs are used.  

Well I would, and strongly.  By a small margin, I preferred the nDAC/SN1 to the nDAC/200/202/NAPSC both with HiCaps.  This was after long audition at home over one Christmas period and I much preferred the 272/250DR to the former (and my preferences are transitive.)  But that's just my view so I'm not sure if any of this helps the OP.  Perhaps it's time to declare a moratorium on comparisons of the box-that-shall-not-be-named with other boxes.

Roger

analogmusic posted:

I still like the 202 very much, and I own a 282 and listen to both every day.

Not my business at all, but are you saying that you listen to music every day and every day you alternate preamps?

It's probably because I hate options and choices, but I would be totally off-balance and confused after a single afternoon...

Max

yeti42 posted:

There is a  line level output selectable from the menu.

The 202 will leave options open for future Naim digital source releases, the 272 looks like a dead end.

+ 1.........   is an open and future proof  system  (  sell V1 and Lumin D1 as source ? ) 

 

twinkletoes posted:

Bad news is, I've a tried a bare 202 with a DAC v1 and guess what it sounds like a V1, I'm sorry nothing changed, in my opinion, I completely agree with DAVE4JAZZ on that and adding a power supply won't change that MAYBE you get a slightly wider stage and more insight, but its not night and day in my eyes . Adding a 272 completely different story, though the V1 isn't a million miles away either. What your pumping in with the V1 is what you'll be getting out, albeit still very fine. Unfortunately, I think your next move will be an expensive one to absolutely better it. I wouldn't do it for a small tweak here and there for me it has to be a solid "yeah thats for the better" unless you have a long term plan/ goal in mind. But even if it has made difference is it a difference you like?

The v1 and nap 200 have a great synergy with a "greater than the sum of there parts" sound.  Listen to all your options before buying I really think you'll be surprised what it takes. Just  my 2 cents (probably a little more)

 

Ok , I have to take the plane  for the UK and go for a listen V1 vs. Nac 202...at the moment here ....all the seller are with the new streamers  ( uniti ) in minds  

They 've been forgot the classic systems.....

I had122x/200 for a few months before getting a 202 I loved the 202/200 Napsc and serviced CB Hicap great amp. I'm going to be a bit unfashionable and say although obviously better the 282 is not the massive night and day improvement over the 202 that some have reported it wasn't until I went from 282/200 to 282/300 via 282/250 and then upgraded my speakers that I heard what the 282 is capable of. 

I'm not sure about the dac v1 as I've never heard it and for me the 202/200 was always better with an analogue front end but my advice would be to trade the v1 in for a Hugo or 2Qute and see if you can stretch to a 202 with a Napsc and Hicap alternatively Chord dac/Supernait or a Superuniti. 

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