Nap 200 , wich pre ?

202/hicap DR, napsc2/200 definitely.

It's a fine system and what I  Have.

Even though 122x/hicap would work well , 202 would still let you perceive a much bigger picture but it's only once you get your 202 hicapped you understand what a foolishness not to have chosen the latter.

 Also as a pre 202 hicap DR would trash any 272.

Hungryhalibut posted:
Antonio1 posted:

 Also as a pre 202 hicap DR would trash any 272.

In your dreams. 

This gentlemen depends on the source.  With a NDX and 200 the 202 would indeed have the upper hand over a 272/200.  But put a XPS and 250 with the 272 and things aren’t the same as they’re not if you add a XPS to the NDX.   Horses for courses. 

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Do the NACs really need servicing?

Generally yes, particularly if you can hear that the sound is a bit "off" (best compared against a good example), mainly because there's no way to guarantee that after so long the components are all still within spec tolerance.  However, I've heard Naim pre-amp way past their service due date that sound fabulous.  Then again, I've also heard other Naim pre-amps where the sound was definitely lacklustre and so really needed to be serviced.

The NAC 202 is a fine piece although it gets battered quite frequently on this forum. There was a forummer who wrote that the difference between the 202 and 282 isn't that great which goes against the basic tenets of Naim. As an owner of both 202 and 282 who has frequently compared both, I can say that both camps are quite right. There are no units of measurement to provide standards for comparison ie. to measure the difference in sound quality between gear. What i can say is the 202 still retains the classic Naim sound and doesn't sound too shabby (that's what most folks would want you to think). It's a fine piece in its own right. 

The OP already has a superb amp - the 200 - so he has two sensible choices around his budget, a 202 or a 272. 

When it came out I went to one of the roadshows and was really taken with the 272.  So I went back and did the full dem 272/200 vs NDX/202/200 and took my own (v familiar) speakers and my music - the only time I've ever invested this much effort in a dem (it so happened I wasn't working at the time which helped). 

I really liked the 272 but the inconvenient, inescapable conclusion was that the NDX/202/200 was clearly better.  I never bought the NDX though because I didn't want the box proliferation.

The OP already has a streamer he likes so imo he's down to one sensible choice - a 202. 

I'm not familiar with the v1.  I'm sure it is a great bit of kit but I'm very sceptical it equals a 202 as a pre.  NAPSC is essential on 202 as has been said many times before. 

I still have my 202/200 and have recently gone for a Nova/Neat Iota Alpha's in our living room.  So the other thing I'd say is no need to rush, take your time, there'll always be new options coming to the market and somebody willing to sell you something. 

Olly

Olly posted:

When it came out I went to one of the roadshows and was really taken with the 272.  So I went back and did the full dem 272/200 vs NDX/202/200 and took my own (v familiar) speakers and my music - the only time I've ever invested this much effort in a dem (it so happened I wasn't working at the time which helped). 

I really liked the 272 but the inconvenient, inescapable conclusion was that the NDX/202/200 was clearly better.  I never bought the NDX though because I didn't want the box proliferation.

My conclusion from demos was the same. My initial comparison was 272/250DR vs NDX/202/200DR and for me, the latter was a clear winner. I went into the demo process expecting to come away with a 272 based system, and I would have preferred it’s superior volume control and fewer cables, but I went with the setup that my ears liked best. 

After replacing my Rega XEL for  Dynaudio S3.4, my Nap200 is wonderfull  w/ NAC202, HicapDR, NAPSC, CDX2.

I tested NAP250DR and a dedicated power line w/ filter and such (I live in a 3-year old house, but changed the place/floor of hifi). 

And the power line upgrade appear to deliver more than the 250DR upgrade without it. So, first take care of power supply and then upgrade the amp.

 

 

If the OP takes the route of the 202, the good news is that the V1 and 200 will work with it (via fixed output from the V1 which bypasses the pre in the V1, and power from the 200), making the initial outlay smaller than the 272 route, as well as creating flexibility for future source changes.

dave4jazz posted:
analogmusic posted:

The V1 uses a resistor ladder as volume control, but the 202 uses an ALPS pot with precious metal Wipers.... a much better volume control.

To quote the DAC-V1 design engineer:

"...the DAC-V1 incorporates a digitally controlled CMOS analogue volume control and preamp. The Class A pre-amp stage also doubles up as a high quality headphoene amplifier with the ability to drive many headphones, even high-impedance ones. There has been no comprise on the sonic performance of the DAC-V1" HiFiChoice May 2013

Dave

The same volume control tech is the same in the V1 and 272.

Robiwan posted:

anything, but not the NAC202 which together with a NAP 200 has no soul. You're favourite music will not boogie woogie and only will sound clean and clear

Maybe not NAC 202 with NAP 200 but with DAC-V1 I have clean and clear sound with plenty of soul and boogie woogie. 😉

Dave

Jude2012 posted:
dave4jazz posted:
analogmusic posted:

The V1 uses a resistor ladder as volume control, but the 202 uses an ALPS pot with precious metal Wipers.... a much better volume control.

To quote the DAC-V1 design engineer:

"...the DAC-V1 incorporates a digitally controlled CMOS analogue volume control and preamp. The Class A pre-amp stage also doubles up as a high quality headphoene amplifier with the ability to drive many headphones, even high-impedance ones. There has been no comprise on the sonic performance of the DAC-V1" HiFiChoice May 2013

Dave

The same volume control tech is the same in the V1 and 272.

That's not correct.  The V1 uses analogue CMOS transmission gates, the 272 uses a switched resistor ladder.

New pre ?

You can use just about any Naim Nac which matches your budget and use the V1 as dedicated dac

One of my favorites are the the classic Nac 72

Bit old by now so might need a service

No remote but actually I sort of preferred it to a 102/202 and it will handle vinyl if this float your boat

But plenty of other choices

Sheep Hiearchy will recommend 202 with next step 282 - both very expensive new but plenty s/h

Older serviced 82 might be a solution if you don't care the different design ?

The 122 is not bad but possible not much better than your V1

 

The logical answer to the OP's question is a 202. I used my 200 with a 202 and them moved to a 282 and he difference was significant. So I would suggest a pre loved 282, it works wonderfully with a 200 IMHO. But when you add a 250 then things take another leap forward.

As I said I tried my 202-hicapdr-napsc with a nap250dr and lots of boggie woogie. Simply, the Dynaudios enjoyed the extra control and power of the Nap250dr, the 202 is not the limiting factor for that.  Maybe the cdx2-202-200-napsc-hicap is indeed a sweet spot on the Naim range. 

 

A completely different approach is also possible: replace V1 and preamp with Hugo 2, HugoTT, or if budget allows, Dave: With these DACs you don’t need a preamp if you don’t have any analog sources, as they have built-in volume controls, remote control able, and are capable of feeding even Naim’s 18kΩ power amp input impedance, and have ultrasonic filtering, recommended for Naim power amps. You would gain a more direct path with less electronics, however, you would lose any aspect of the “Naim Sound” arising from the preamp. Whether it would meet your sonic needs is something you’d need  to hear and assess.

Huge posted:
Jude2012 posted:
dave4jazz posted:
analogmusic posted:

The V1 uses a resistor ladder as volume control, but the 202 uses an ALPS pot with precious metal Wipers.... a much better volume control.

To quote the DAC-V1 design engineer:

"...the DAC-V1 incorporates a digitally controlled CMOS analogue volume control and preamp. The Class A pre-amp stage also doubles up as a high quality headphoene amplifier with the ability to drive many headphones, even high-impedance ones. There has been no comprise on the sonic performance of the DAC-V1" HiFiChoice May 2013

Dave

The same volume control tech is the same in the V1 and 272.

That's not correct.  The V1 uses analogue CMOS transmission gates, the 272 uses a switched resistor ladder.

Yes, good point :

Finally there’s analogue relay switching for the various inputs, completely isolating those that are not in use, and a volume control derived from the one used in Naim’s £155,000 Statement ampli er, combining a resistor ladder for optimal signal purity with digital control for convenience.” Hi-Fi Choice NAC-N 272, Jul 2015.

The Naim DAC is a line-level output device (designed
to connect to a preamplifier) but
the DAC-V1 incorporates a digitally controlled CMOS analogue volume control and preamp. The Class A pre- amp stage also doubles up as a high- quality headphone amplifier with the ability to drive many headphones, even high-impedance ones. There has been no compromise on the sonic performance on the DAC-V1.”

Hi-fi Choice May 2013

Jude2012 posted:

The Naim DAC is a line-level output device (designed
to connect to a preamplifier) but
the DAC-V1 incorporates a digitally controlled CMOS analogue volume control and preamp. The Class A pre- amp stage also doubles up as a high- quality headphone amplifier with the ability to drive many headphones, even high-impedance ones. There has been no compromise on the sonic performance on the DAC-V1.”

Hi-fi Choice May 2013

Ooh, so the V1 also can drive a power amp direct. I didn’t know that. So, modifying my previous post, a completely different approach may also be possible: if you don’t have any analog sources, remove the preamp entirely and feed the V1 direct to the power amp (I assime that the V1 has suitable UHF filtering, but if doing this with a Naim power amp it may be advisable first to check with Naim). You can do this just as a trial to see how it sounds that way.

Options like the other DACs I mentioned used in the same way can be considered as possible upgrades 

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