ND555

I hope so. The whole box spread of making things that require multiple outboard power supplies is just a total pain for the customer. It would be absolutely wonderful if they were able to make it a single box solution with no outboard PSU at all. The technology has improved so much, it seems there should be no real obstacle to doing so. The Klimax DSM is single box and a top performer.

Bert Schurink posted:

Hope they will bring it for comparison with the NDS to Munich and that delivery will still fall in this year. Assuming I want and can affford the upgrade.

at Bristol it will be just shown, not demonstrated because they are not ready, But Munich perhaps, it would be cool.

Piotr1 posted:

Is it power button on front panel?

Does that mean internal power supply in ND555?

I hope so. There is no reason in this day and age you can't design a solution of reference performance that does not require 2 outboard PSU's etc. It is incredibly inconvenient and a barrier to require so many ancillary boxes that should be just built in.

French Rooster posted:
Bert Schurink posted:
Piotr1 posted:

Is it power button on front panel?

Does that mean internal power supply in ND555?

Can not imagine at that level of intended performance.

perhaps a standby mode?

Probably a token gesture to U.K. legislation. The Core’s has been quoted as reducing consumption from 16W to 15W! It would be a big departure for Naim to design something whose SQ didn’t depend on leaving the power on.

Phil

No quarter posted:

Maybe Trevor can post a photo of the back of the unit?

I would love to see that - but I can't see it will happen until Naim are farther along and have formally shown it at an event.

It surely will use the 555PS or two to tempt NDS owners and even CD555 owners. If you also have to outlay for a custom supply for the ND555 then it would go against Naim's upgrade concept. I'd be happy if eventually an even better PS became available, but it would be good to be able to rough-it with the humble 555PS.

DB.

Couple of thoughts: 

First, I'm surprised there's no Statement streamer.  I've always found it odd seeing a Fraim stack next to the 3 monoliths... never worked for me. Second, I'm surprised they've gone with the classic styling.  Not that I really care, I figured Naim was moving on much like when they abandoned the olive look.  I do think a ND555 in the new style would look quite elegant.  Wonder when Naim will pull the plug on classic styling?  Hoping the ND555 will use the 555 power supplies... I own 2 and making the jump will be much easier, but I would not be surprised if Naim had a new super-555 PS in the works.  I hope the new streamer has a network switch in it.  It kills me that we have all this well engineered equipment and I have to use a cheap ethernet switch box with a noisy wall-wart power supply.  Fix this Naim!

Finally, I know there is quite a debate on the CD555 vs NDS.  All I can say is I think the NDS sounds much better, but streaming is as tweaky as my LP12.  I've had to use fancy Chord ethernet cables, linear power supplies for the NAS/UnitiServe and a second 555DR PS to get the most out of the NDS.  Its been an education, but digital has never sounded better.  I'm eager to get a ND555 into my system to hear what's missing... I'm making such great sound right now.  

 

  

This is so far above anything I could afford so as not to really matter to me but anyway taking away blind faith and brand loyalty at £14,000 almost double the cost of an NDS this would have to be special.  Taking into account the level of network renderer plus separate dac that you could buy for £14,000 Naim will have to produce something very, very special and again taking into account the problems with the other new Uniti products this has to be tested within an inch of its life before being released.

Having said all that it is great to see Naim putting it's full weight behind the Classic series and I wish anyone who can afford such a thing happy listening.

BPhotographer posted:

The original 555PS was designed for the CD555. Later came the NDS and it was built on the same foundation naim already had (555PS).
I, somehow, couldn't find the NDS to be an interesting piece of gear, it bored me from the moment I pushed the start button and 
I never understood the fascination with it (Martin Colloms ranked it 300 points, where the CD555 is only 89).
The NDS does not sound any better than a naim CD player (CDS2/CDS3/CD555). Not even close to them IMHO.
The CDS2 for example is much more engaging and has more drive, rhythm, pace, weight of instruments, soundstage, focus -
which leads me to find an interest with the music.
The NDS is too polite, in a non-naim way, which leads me to listen for a little while and then lost interest.
Naim understood this, and here comes the new streamer, which I hope will fight the old CD players (finally).
Although I doubt - I was starting to think that there is something with the CD transport/laser mechanism that makes it so special sounding - so good.

BP.         

I found my NDS very engaging and I do not find it to sound like you do at all. But we all hear different,  and we all have our systems set up different. I have NDS/555DR UnitiCore setup using ChordMusic rca interconnects to preamp & XLRs between amp and preamp up using Hegel Preamp/amp and Kef Blade twos . It sounds very engaging to me ! But like I said we all have different systems and ways of hearing . To say NDS/555DR is boring surprised me a bit but there are many opinions. I just had a couple of friends over who thought streaming sounded much better than CD players. Go figure ! 

A Naim employee said they’d use the 555ps on the new streamer recently, he didn’t call it an ND 555 but implied a higher price than an NDS, “it would be shooting ourselves in the foot not to”. I didn’t get much more out of him other than “a launch in the summer” and “don’t discuss it on the forum “but we know what happens to launch dates and as the word is out ...

I'm surprised that one item is still in Mk1 guise (albeit with a few software updates along the way) - the Naim DAC.

Given it's architecture, I would have thought that this would have been ripe for lift in performance via the usual Naim methods - Reference size case to optimise the internal layout further and add more isolation. Separation of the digital and analogue boards (as per NDS) with the boards located on 'Floating' sub chassis assemblies. Finally, removal of the internal PSU and the addition of another Burndy socket to take full advantage of a 555PS.

It's been out nearly 10 years but has this product been overtaken by the quality (and connectivity) available from the Network players and will quietly disappear from the line up in a couple of years ?

 

Chris Bell posted:

.  I hope the new streamer has a network switch in it.  It kills me that we have all this well engineered equipment and I have to use a cheap ethernet switch box with a noisy wall-wart power supply.  Fix this Naim!

Why would you want to put a switch into a streamer, or any other network client, which only requires a single port? You would be cramming in another potential source of noise and creating a cable dressing issue. If your current switch is cheap and noisy, buy a decent one, or at least a better wallwart. 

musicfan51 posted:
BPhotographer posted:

The original 555PS was designed for the CD555. Later came the NDS and it was built on the same foundation naim already had (555PS).
I, somehow, couldn't find the NDS to be an interesting piece of gear, it bored me from the moment I pushed the start button and 
I never understood the fascination with it (Martin Colloms ranked it 300 points, where the CD555 is only 89).
The NDS does not sound any better than a naim CD player (CDS2/CDS3/CD555). Not even close to them IMHO.
The CDS2 for example is much more engaging and has more drive, rhythm, pace, weight of instruments, soundstage, focus -
which leads me to find an interest with the music.
The NDS is too polite, in a non-naim way, which leads me to listen for a little while and then lost interest.
Naim understood this, and here comes the new streamer, which I hope will fight the old CD players (finally).
Although I doubt - I was starting to think that there is something with the CD transport/laser mechanism that makes it so special sounding - so good.

BP.         

I found my NDS very engaging and I do not find it to sound like you do at all. But we all hear different,  and we all have our systems set up different. I have NDS/555DR UnitiCore setup using ChordMusic rca interconnects to preamp & XLRs between amp and preamp up using Hegel Preamp/amp and Kef Blade twos . It sounds very engaging to me ! But like I said we all have different systems and ways of hearing . To say NDS/555DR is boring surprised me a bit but there are many opinions. I just had a couple of friends over who thought streaming sounded much better than CD players. Go figure ! 

Which source  in the past did you have before your NDS/555DR?

james n posted:

I'm surprised that one item is still in Mk1 guise (albeit with a few software updates along the way) - the Naim DAC.

Given it's architecture, I would have thought that this would have been ripe for lift in performance via the usual Naim methods - Reference size case to optimise the internal layout further and add more isolation. Separation of the digital and analogue boards (as per NDS) with the boards located on 'Floating' sub chassis assemblies. Finally, removal of the internal PSU and the addition of another Burndy socket to take full advantage of a 555PS.

It's been out nearly 10 years but has this product been overtaken by the quality (and connectivity) available from the Network players and will quietly disappear from the line up in a couple of years ?

 

I’m with James on this.

Personally, I think an upgraded nDAC should form the heart of a digital architecture. The aim should then be to connect other digital sources to it in the best possible way. I think many members might be how surprised how good music from a iPad (TIDAL, iRadio, ..) can sound into the front USB port. A decent streaming box into a world beating DAC doesn’t need to cost an arm and a leg. The upgrade path should then focus on better power supplies.

Phil

Chris Bell posted:

Couple of thoughts: 

First, I'm surprised there's no Statement streamer.  I've always found it odd seeing a Fraim stack next to the 3 monoliths... never worked for me. Second, I'm surprised they've gone with the classic styling.  Not that I really care, I figured Naim was moving on much like when they abandoned the olive look.  I do think a ND555 in the new style would look quite elegant.  Wonder when Naim will pull the plug on classic styling?  Hoping the ND555 will use the 555 power supplies... I own 2 and making the jump will be much easier, but I would not be surprised if Naim had a new super-555 PS in the works.  I hope the new streamer has a network switch in it.  It kills me that we have all this well engineered equipment and I have to use a cheap ethernet switch box with a noisy wall-wart power supply.  Fix this Naim!

Finally, I know there is quite a debate on the CD555 vs NDS.  All I can say is I think the NDS sounds much better, but streaming is as tweaky as my LP12.  I've had to use fancy Chord ethernet cables, linear power supplies for the NAS/UnitiServe and a second 555DR PS to get the most out of the NDS.  Its been an education, but digital has never sounded better.  I'm eager to get a ND555 into my system to hear what's missing... I'm making such great sound right now.  

 

  

Naim are masters at analogue amps and preamps, but when it comes to digital I don't think they can compete so well. To put a digital streamer in the "Statement" category it's got to be able to distance itself sufficiently from the NDS, in the same degree that the S1 preamp does from the 552 (although I'm not so sure the S1 power amp's sufficiently better than the 500DR to justify its status and price) and I don't think that's feasible. I'm also a bit uncomfortable about Naim relying on the quality of customer's individual networking systems to deliver files that aren't going to compromise the performance of the new streamer. You've only got to read a few postings on here to see the problems folk have with their networks to appreciate this. I accept a small amount of tweaking will be needed, but it really shouldn't be the problem it appears to be. Give me the Melco/DAC solution every time.

Heavy investment in a narrow market and (likely) short-life redundancy item like a Statement streamer would surely be bonkers from a returns and brand perspective. Plus, at this level of the market the operational and ergonomics aspects would need to be bullet-proof - they don't appear to be(?) from an end to end perspective if the Streaming Room here is any indicator.

I must say the price of an existing NDS set-up and the cost of a new ND555 if the words around these parts are in the right ball park looks very chastening to my eyes. I always thought that streaming kit and computer-based audio would be cheaper than CD players (adjusting for real value of money) - but it's looking not the case with Naim. And I'm not yet sold on any significant uplift in quality of repro over say the CD555  -  obviously we all have different ears & views.

Chris Bell posted:

 

Finally, I know there is quite a debate on the CD555 vs NDS.  All I can say is I think the NDS sounds much better, but streaming is as tweaky as my LP12. 

  

I agree. You can't fault the CD555 for its technical abilities but I prefer the musical communication and essential realism of the NDS. And the CDS3 over the CD555 come to that. Hugely subjective, I know.

I am looking forward to getting my ears on the ND555 but it won't be a disappointment if I end up sticking with what I have. As to the technology within it, I don't care. What it sounds like is what will count. And if it sounds worth the extra.

I only got as far as a Planar 3 but the tweeking got on my nerves. As did the ritual of storing, handling and playing LPs. Streaming is so easy. Fit and forget. Restart occasionally. I wouldn't mind a standby function but it will obviously be externally powered so that would be a sop. Unless a new smart power supply is  coming down the pipe at some stage. 

Conspiracy theorist that I am I’m wondering whether that is a mock up photo we have been given?

It’s title is interesting - NaimForumImage-ND555-TLD- 

I can’t help thinking if I gave one of my younger children pictures of a few pices  of Naim kit and asked them to come up with cut and paste “new product” that they wouldn’t come up with something like this. The new Uniti  range looks so different, this looks so 2004. As someone commented it’s like a HDX without the disc loader.

Hard to think this is the brave new world......

 

.sjb

 

Naim have been saying for a while that the classic look will be retained, so it’s pretty much as I was expecting - a subtle evolution to accommodate the new screeen. A reference streamer that looked like a Uniti and therefore didn’t match the other boxes would be dreadful. Things don’t have to look different just for the sake of it. In my view they’ve got it exactly right. 

The CD555 was different to the other CD players in the range. 

Personally I’d prefer something modern looking like this sitting on my fraim.

Volume not needed to it will still fit on any rack of Fraim 

Unless this is just a stop gap product to “allow” NDS owners to upgrade, I cannot see why they wouldn’t use their new modern design and sell to a wider audience.

The picture posted by Trevor  looks  retro rather than iconic to me. 

.sjb

This all depends on what you are used to I suppose but for me it is a vast amount of money to spend. I cannot imagine what £14,000 (plus psu) should sound like. Should it or will it sound 10 or 15 x better than my own rrp £1,400 streaming solution. 

It really brings home the HIFI world I find myself in and the forum on which I post and what good £14 or £20,000 could do in the real world. 

tonym posted:
Chris Bell posted:

Couple of thoughts: 

First, I'm surprised there's no Statement streamer.  I've always found it odd seeing a Fraim stack next to the 3 monoliths... never worked for me. Second, I'm surprised they've gone with the classic styling.  Not that I really care, I figured Naim was moving on much like when they abandoned the olive look.  I do think a ND555 in the new style would look quite elegant.  Wonder when Naim will pull the plug on classic styling?  Hoping the ND555 will use the 555 power supplies... I own 2 and making the jump will be much easier, but I would not be surprised if Naim had a new super-555 PS in the works.  I hope the new streamer has a network switch in it.  It kills me that we have all this well engineered equipment and I have to use a cheap ethernet switch box with a noisy wall-wart power supply.  Fix this Naim!

Finally, I know there is quite a debate on the CD555 vs NDS.  All I can say is I think the NDS sounds much better, but streaming is as tweaky as my LP12.  I've had to use fancy Chord ethernet cables, linear power supplies for the NAS/UnitiServe and a second 555DR PS to get the most out of the NDS.  Its been an education, but digital has never sounded better.  I'm eager to get a ND555 into my system to hear what's missing... I'm making such great sound right now.  

 

  

Naim are masters at analogue amps and preamps, but when it comes to digital I don't think they can compete so well. To put a digital streamer in the "Statement" category it's got to be able to distance itself sufficiently from the NDS, in the same degree that the S1 preamp does from the 552 (although I'm not so sure the S1 power amp's sufficiently better than the 500DR to justify its status and price) and I don't think that's feasible. I'm also a bit uncomfortable about Naim relying on the quality of customer's individual networking systems to deliver files that aren't going to compromise the performance of the new streamer. You've only got to read a few postings on here to see the problems folk have with their networks to appreciate this. I accept a small amount of tweaking will be needed, but it really shouldn't be the problem it appears to be. Give me the Melco/DAC solution every time.

Tony, do you use the Melco to stream Tidal which I believe it can now act as a mini streamer. If so is it say to use and does it sound OK.

Gazza

Bob the Builder posted:

This all depends on what you are used to I suppose but for me it is a vast amount of money to spend. I cannot imagine what £14,000 (plus psu) should sound like. Should it or will it sound 10 or 15 x better than my own rrp £1,400 streaming solution. 

It really brings home the HIFI world I find myself in and the forum on which I post and what good £14 or £20,000 could do in the real world. 

Personal choice Bob.   I’d rather spend my money on Hi-Fi rather than a car although I enjoy both

tonym posted:
Chris Bell posted:

Couple of thoughts: 

First, I'm surprised there's no Statement streamer.  I've always found it odd seeing a Fraim stack next to the 3 monoliths... never worked for me. Second, I'm surprised they've gone with the classic styling.  Not that I really care, I figured Naim was moving on much like when they abandoned the olive look.  I do think a ND555 in the new style would look quite elegant.  Wonder when Naim will pull the plug on classic styling?  Hoping the ND555 will use the 555 power supplies... I own 2 and making the jump will be much easier, but I would not be surprised if Naim had a new super-555 PS in the works.  I hope the new streamer has a network switch in it.  It kills me that we have all this well engineered equipment and I have to use a cheap ethernet switch box with a noisy wall-wart power supply.  Fix this Naim!

Finally, I know there is quite a debate on the CD555 vs NDS.  All I can say is I think the NDS sounds much better, but streaming is as tweaky as my LP12.  I've had to use fancy Chord ethernet cables, linear power supplies for the NAS/UnitiServe and a second 555DR PS to get the most out of the NDS.  Its been an education, but digital has never sounded better.  I'm eager to get a ND555 into my system to hear what's missing... I'm making such great sound right now.  

 

  

Naim are masters at analogue amps and preamps, but when it comes to digital I don't think they can compete so well. To put a digital streamer in the "Statement" category it's got to be able to distance itself sufficiently from the NDS, in the same degree that the S1 preamp does from the 552 (although I'm not so sure the S1 power amp's sufficiently better than the 500DR to justify its status and price) and I don't think that's feasible. I'm also a bit uncomfortable about Naim relying on the quality of customer's individual networking systems to deliver files that aren't going to compromise the performance of the new streamer. You've only got to read a few postings on here to see the problems folk have with their networks to appreciate this. I accept a small amount of tweaking will be needed, but it really shouldn't be the problem it appears to be. Give me the Melco/DAC solution every time.

Re styling, I wonder how a streamer/player could be made to match the Statement amps? Equally tall perhaps, mostly empy space? Or some sort of floating device that hovers at a customer- chosen height above the amp?

And as for how much better S1 power amps are from the 500, I’ve not heard so I don’t know how they might compare in terms of sound, but at over 5x the rated average output power capability, and a phenominal 95A instantaneous current delivery giving 12x the peak power capacity of the 500, I guess S1 is likely to be able to handle even the most difficult speakers without faltering. (Or fry them if they don’t behave!).

Meanwhile a Statement level storage solution, like a very grown up Core would certainly seem to make sense to completely remove the vagaries of networks - and perhaps preferably integrated with the streamer.

On these bases the ND555 would suggest itself more as a 500 level device. 

I wonder how it compares with Chord Dave? (Or Dave + Blu2, which might be closer in cost.) one for the serious reviewers...

Bob the Builder posted:

I cannot imagine what £14,000 (plus psu) should sound like. Should it or will it sound 10 or 15 x better than my own rrp £1,400 streaming solution. 

I never find this line of argument terribly convincing. Does your streaming solution sound three times better than a Raspberry PI/Chord Mojo solution for about a third of the price? I doubt it -- but how do you then justify the additional expense??!!

I think we should recognise Bob the Builder's point re cost v performance but everything in life is relative and ultimately 'yer pays yer money and make your choice'. I have friends who've run dragster racing cars, where incremental gains in run time (think ~1/4 second - if not smaller) are only achieved via an exponential increase in costs. 

Please tell me if I'm wrong in this but don't some other manu's at this level of the market (i.e. NDS) offer an upgrading service for their kit which it strikes me won't be (highly unlikely to be?) an option with the new ND555 vis existing NDS - assuming the latter materialises. 

While it's the musical performance that matters, I'm pleased that Naim has done as promised, and retained the current separates' look; infinitely preferable to the 'fugly chic' of Uniti, IMO.

Personally, as someone with no interest in computer audio (CA), I was hoping, though not realistically expecting, a DAC555; Not only would that mean that I, and those of similar persuasion, wouldn't have to pay for unnecessary 'gubbins', but those who are interested in CA, could choose the particular box that did what they wanted, and leave Naim to concentrate on the important bit i.e. changing digits into music. Perhaps because I have no interest in such things, and consequently pay little attention to it,  I may have an unfair impression, but It seems that there is little but moaning about glitches/reliability, missing functions/services etc., which, at best, suggests that CA is something of a moving target (and at worst, something that Naim isn't great at?), so why bother?

Still, I may give ND555 a try, to see if they have managed to provide a substantial musical improvement over their top CD players, and I suppose that it's not beyond the realms of possibility that they might 'spin off' a DAC555 from the development of ND555? (yeah, right!)

 

Bob the Builder posted:

This all depends on what you are used to I suppose but for me it is a vast amount of money to spend. I cannot imagine what £14,000 (plus psu) should sound like. Should it or will it sound 10 or 15 x better than my own rrp £1,400 streaming solution. 

It really brings home the HIFI world I find myself in and the forum on which I post and what good £14 or £20,000 could do in the real world. 

Given that improvement in sound quality in hifi tends to follow something like an exponential price curve, no it won’t be 10x better (whatever that actually means), but I guess  maybe 3-4 distinct increments better - and that of course is in the same stable, which might not relate at all to comparisons with different brands.

All most of us can do is recognise our maximum level of expenditure, and maximise what we can get for it - and if that feels limiting then there is always the consoling thought that the exponential price curve means that those who could afford 10x what we can, only get slightly better sound (ignoring the inevitable superlatives cast around). Value for money, on the other hand, is in the eyes of the beholder - which might be anywhere on the price curve - and of course maximising sound quality for a given expenditure, or minimising cost for a certain level of sound quality, is why some people pick and choose between varous products including across different brands.

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