ND555

Gazza posted:

You have to believe that Naim have Chord and dcs products in their lab to use as comparisons. So I personally don,t think we will be disappointed.

Naim, it is said, have tended to do what they think is right, irrespective of what others do, and are (or at least have been, perhaps more so with the JV era than today) seen as something of an 'outsider' in the world of Hi-Fi, so I doubt it (and hope not - if you want a Chord or dcs, then why not get a Chord or dcs?).

Next, you'll be saying that they have a Linn KDS/3 there, too.

Alba1320 posted:
Gazza posted:

You have to believe that Naim have Chord and dcs products in their lab to use as comparisons. So I personally don,t think we will be disappointed.

Naim, it is said, have tended to do what they think is right, irrespective of what others do, and are (or at least have been, perhaps more so with the JV era than today) seen as something of an 'outsider' in the world of Hi-Fi, so I doubt it (and hope not - if you want a Chord or dcs, then why not get a Chord or dcs?).

Next, you'll be saying that they have a Linn KDS/3 there, too.

I’d be surprised at any equipment R&D department not keeping itself aware of what the competition is doing, and so making sure that they at least hear for themselves anything that gets crediblility as a challenger for their target customers.

That certainly does not mean copying, but genuine awareness can only be helpful.

RICHYH posted:
Following on from many posts above, I want throw my hat in the ring.

I have a statement, and look forward with great anticipation the nd555. It will fit perfectly in the fraim next to the pre amp.  I dont believe a statement level streamer is yet manufactured or may not be even possible with current digital products.

Also I have listened to Chord and DCS and would not call either statement level streaming products.

hımmmm i would not except anything less than a statement with that nickname

Emre posted:
RICHYH posted:
Following on from many posts above, I want throw my hat in the ring.

I have a statement, and look forward with great anticipation the nd555. It will fit perfectly in the fraim next to the pre amp.  I dont believe a statement level streamer is yet manufactured or may not be even possible with current digital products.

Also I have listened to Chord and DCS and would not call either statement level streaming products.

hımmmm i would not except anything less than a statement with that nickname

I was just thinking the same thing then I turned onto page 5 and found your post

Naim have missed a huge opportunity here as they should have bought out a new ndac and a separate streaming renderer.  People with older units could have kept them and their psu’s  and added the new ndac and those with Dacs they are happy with could have bought just the renderer. 

Bob the Builder posted:

Naim have missed a huge opportunity here as they should have bought out a new ndac and a separate streaming renderer.  People with older units could have kept them and their psu’s  and added the new ndac and those with Dacs they are happy with could have bought just the renderer. 

my main naim dealer in Paris said me he is essentially selling streamers, very rarely dacs..  I don’t even know if naim will produce a new dac.   I agree with you, i would like too to see a new dac and separated streamer. I would be able to upgrade my nds in the future,  without having to invest in a costly nd555.   

However, the DAC is likely to be the main cost of the ND555 by far, and having the renderer in a separate box might not make the DAC a lot cheaper, though the extra box and everything asspciated with it would make the combined units even more expensive. It may be Naim’s view that if you are spending maybe  80% or more of the projected ND555 cost on a DAC, it would make more sense to go the whole hog and have a streamer/player at the full price, and at the same tome avoid all the potential pitfalls of digital cabling, RF interference etc.

analogmusic posted:

I think there is not going to be any statement streamer until it is capable of being just that "a statement" of the best digital audio in the world.

That's another game - one being played very well by Chord and DCS.

and EMM, Playback, Berkeley, Metronome, totaldac + ...

This is where I am quite skeptic myself: NDS had the analogue stage optimized. The new reference streamer will use the new platform, thus improving on NDS in the areas of WiFi, package handling, buffering, Roon readiness, streaming services availability - all of them good things in themselves albeit aspects of a good renderer.

Not touching the DAC itself though does not bode well for claiming the top spot in this game.

And we have no evidence that NAIM has invested in DAC R&D. I happily stand to be corrected on this ! 

... 

the dac inside the streamer is really 80% of the price approximately?   are you sure or is it an hypothesis?

It would be interesting to be able to upgrade a naim streamer like the nds with a better naim dac or send , like with linn, the nds for nds2 upgrade:  but no way to upgrade it without loosing money.

Nd5x, ndx, can be upgraded with ndac.    I prefer naim sound but linn philosophy.

The nDAC and NDS use the same DAC chip (1704). I read somewhere that the CDX2 uses the same chip but I have not seen that in a white paper. The NDX and 272 use different chips but similar design. 

Given that the nDAC is just over a third of the price of the NDS I can’t see why people want to pay so much for a DAC. As I said separate boxes for DAC and streamer would be my choice. 

The CD555DR PS has the same metallic finish as the Core for those wanting a more modern look. I prefer the matt finish.

@MDS I have the CD555DR PS now fitted to my nDAC, and it certainly immediately announces itself with more bass and leading edge (I’m listening to Schubert’s Quintet D.956 and Symphony No.5 conducted by Pablo Casals). As long as the sound does not stay hard for everything once it’s warmed up, it could be staying.  Maybe some Dire Straights (On Every Street) on next! May have a nice XPSDR for sale.

Phil

Richieroo posted:

I think that the new ND555 streamer - will be feature rich roon, more resolution formats etc , but I still think it is going to have a tough time improving meaningfully on the NDS sonically. The psu and analogue circuits - are super critical regarding noise - and their inference on the sound. When you play a really good 44.1 flac on the NDS it can sound staggering - depending on the production and original mastering - so huge sample rates are not the whole story. I would think the whole psu structure would need to change - you almost need a 2 box streamer one section for digital and one for analogue .... maybe thats the Statement Streamer to come!

I am listening to a really good recording on my NDS/555DR uniticore setup and trying to imagine a streamer that sounds tons better!  ND555 may just sound different, a different flavor so to say with better features but if people are expecting it to be like 40% better SQ They may Be disappointed. It will sound better but it is not going to reinvent sound ! 

French Rooster posted:

the dac inside the streamer is really 80% of the price approximately?   are you sure or is it an hypothesis?

It would be interesting to be able to upgrade a naim streamer like the nds with a better naim dac or send , like with linn, the nds for nds2 upgrade:  but no way to upgrade it without loosing money.

Nd5x, ndx, can be upgraded with ndac.    I prefer naim sound but linn philosophy.

It is my guess that that is what the DAC would cost in a stand-alone box. And the renderer might then be something like 40% if it was in a stand-alone box. 

Innocent Bystander posted:
French Rooster posted:

the dac inside the streamer is really 80% of the price approximately?   are you sure or is it an hypothesis?

It would be interesting to be able to upgrade a naim streamer like the nds with a better naim dac or send , like with linn, the nds for nds2 upgrade:  but no way to upgrade it without loosing money.

Nd5x, ndx, can be upgraded with ndac.    I prefer naim sound but linn philosophy.

It is my guess that that is what the DAC would cost in a stand-alone box. And the renderer might then be something like 40% if it was in a stand-alone box. 

Don't confuse cost of manufacture with the price that's charged.

Noogle posted:
Innocent Bystander posted:
French Rooster posted:

the dac inside the streamer is really 80% of the price approximately?   are you sure or is it an hypothesis?

It would be interesting to be able to upgrade a naim streamer like the nds with a better naim dac or send , like with linn, the nds for nds2 upgrade:  but no way to upgrade it without loosing money.

Nd5x, ndx, can be upgraded with ndac.    I prefer naim sound but linn philosophy.

It is my guess that that is what the DAC would cost in a stand-alone box. And the renderer might then be something like 40% if it was in a stand-alone box. 

Don't confuse cost of manufacture with the price that's charged.

I wasn’t

musicfan51 posted:
Richieroo posted:

I think that the new ND555 streamer - will be feature rich roon, more resolution formats etc , but I still think it is going to have a tough time improving meaningfully on the NDS sonically. The psu and analogue circuits - are super critical regarding noise - and their inference on the sound. When you play a really good 44.1 flac on the NDS it can sound staggering - depending on the production and original mastering - so huge sample rates are not the whole story. I would think the whole psu structure would need to change - you almost need a 2 box streamer one section for digital and one for analogue .... maybe thats the Statement Streamer to come!

I am listening to a really good recording on my NDS/555DR uniticore setup and trying to imagine a streamer that sounds tons better!  ND555 may just sound different, a different flavor so to say with better features but if people are expecting it to be like 40% better SQ They may Be disappointed. It will sound better but it is not going to reinvent sound ! 

When I had a Hugo, I couldnt imagine anything sounding significantly better. 

The sound may well be advanced on the ND555 but at the current level of DAC performances this becomes less of an issue - as personal preferences come into play  - but what I would most expect from the new streamer is increased consistency which is the weakness of the current streamers... ie Tidal should sound the same for the same master as local streamed content - it doesn't on the current streamers usually - on the ND555 i will be looking for equivalence - hopefully Naim will be there or a lot closer...

S

Filipe posted:

@MDS I have the CD555DR PS now fitted to my nDAC, and it certainly immediately announces itself with more bass and leading edge (I’m listening to Schubert’s Quintet D.956 and Symphony No.5 conducted by Pablo Casals). As long as the sound does not stay hard for everything once it’s warmed up, it could be staying.  Maybe some Dire Straights (On Every Street) on next! May have a nice XPSDR for sale.

Phil

Nice one, Phil. The thorough warm-up is worth the wait.  

Eloise posted:
Kevin Richardson posted:

That wouldn’t make sense... the 555PS was introduced for the CD555.  If the ND555 needed a new power supply, then surely they would call the streamer the ND575 (or something like that) and the power supply the 575PS?

Statement PS ?

And the bank balance haemorrhage continues !

MDS posted:
Filipe posted:

@MDS I have the CD555DR PS now fitted to my nDAC, and it certainly immediately announces itself with more bass and leading edge (I’m listening to Schubert’s Quintet D.956 and Symphony No.5 conducted by Pablo Casals). As long as the sound does not stay hard for everything once it’s warmed up, it could be staying.  Maybe some Dire Straights (On Every Street) on next! May have a nice XPSDR for sale.

Phil

Nice one, Phil. The thorough warm-up is worth the wait.  

@MDS The 555DR PS is beginning to soften and bring out more magic even with the TV. It looks like a good step on its own. Would £12k be too much for a 7 year old DRed 552?

Phil

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

The sound may well be advanced on the ND555 but at the current level of DAC performances this becomes less of an issue - as personal preferences come into play  - but what I would most expect from the new streamer is increased consistency which is the weakness of the current streamers... ie Tidal should sound the same for the same master as local streamed content - it doesn't on the current streamers usually - on the ND555 i will be looking for equivalence - hopefully Naim will be there or a lot closer...

S

I understand that bringing web streaming up to the standard of local UPnP was a big part of the design brief for the new streaming platform. I keep thinking I should sit down and compare a few tracks just out of curiosity, but I I'm not sure how easy it will be on my humble Atom. Having said that, if the new platform achieves this consistency, it will presumably be on all the new streamers, so the ND555 will still need to offer more than that.  

ChrisSU posted:
Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

The sound may well be advanced on the ND555 but at the current level of DAC performances this becomes less of an issue - as personal preferences come into play  - but what I would most expect from the new streamer is increased consistency which is the weakness of the current streamers... ie Tidal should sound the same for the same master as local streamed content - it doesn't on the current streamers usually - on the ND555 i will be looking for equivalence - hopefully Naim will be there or a lot closer...

S

I understand that bringing web streaming up to the standard of local UPnP was a big part of the design brief for the new streaming platform. I keep thinking I should sit down and compare a few tracks just out of curiosity, but I I'm not sure how easy it will be on my humble Atom. Having said that, if the new platform achieves this consistency, it will presumably be on all the new streamers, so the ND555 will still need to offer more than that.  

But there is still the variability/reliability/speed of the internet connection, over which the streamer has no control (possibly other than adding a huge buffering capacity, though that won’t deal with all possible problems), so local storage still could prove better.

Innocent Bystander posted:

But there is still the variability/reliability/speed of the internet connection, over which the streamer has no control (possibly other than adding a huge buffering capacity, though that won’t deal with all possible problems), so local storage still could prove better.

You also don’t return to your “favourite” music to find a month later an album (or even weirder parts of an album) are no longer available...

Filipe posted:
MDS posted:
Filipe posted:

@MDS I have the CD555DR PS now fitted to my nDAC, and it certainly immediately announces itself with more bass and leading edge (I’m listening to Schubert’s Quintet D.956 and Symphony No.5 conducted by Pablo Casals). As long as the sound does not stay hard for everything once it’s warmed up, it could be staying.  Maybe some Dire Straights (On Every Street) on next! May have a nice XPSDR for sale.

Phil

Nice one, Phil. The thorough warm-up is worth the wait.  

@MDS The 555DR PS is beginning to soften and bring out more magic even with the TV. It looks like a good step on its own. Would £12k be too much for a 7 year old DRed 552?

Phil

If a service was done at the same time as the DR and the provenance is good e.g. a pre-loved 552DR supplied by a Naim dealer, that sounds pretty reasonable to me.  

Hungryhalibut posted:
DrPo posted

 

And we have no evidence that NAIM has invested in DAC R&D. 

You also have no evidence that they haven’t

Witty answer, HH, but from a methodological point of view rather unusual - if not downright meaningless by definition. Incidentally, I think I added that “I would be happy to be proven wrong” or something to that effect. 

MDS posted:

Oh, yes, Phil. Presumably you'll get a good trade-in price for your 282/SCDR against the 552DR?

The 552 is not from a Naim dealer so I would have to persuade my dealer to buy the 282/SuperCap DR or go on eBay via my daughter.

The 555 is so good though, but of course the 552 would improve things further.

Phil

Filipe posted:
MDS posted:

Oh, yes, Phil. Presumably you'll get a good trade-in price for your 282/SCDR against the 552DR?

The 552 is not from a Naim dealer so I would have to persuade my dealer to buy the 282/SuperCap DR or go on eBay via my daughter.

The 555 is so good though, but of course the 552 would improve things further.

Phil

If a private purchase I think you can check on the Naim website whether the serial number corresponds with the age claimed for the unit.

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