ND555

Dan.S posted:

An ND555 dac section on par with what Dave currently offers would reassure customers they made the right choice again, buying a brand well deserving its reputation. 

Are Dave owners not content that they made the same ight choice, and is Chord not deserving irs reputation? (And I should ask as a fundamental part of the last question, is Chord’s reputation not good, albeit not as long established as Naim?)

Dan.S posted:

An ND555 dac section on par with what Dave currently offers would reassure customers they made the right choice again, buying a brand well deserving its reputation. 

It depends what you mean and how you are comparing. We will have to wait for implementation and chipset details... as well as obviously listening to it... technically Chord Electronics Hugo and Dave have more accurate reconstruction than the current Naim DACs/Streamers and even the CD555. However better accuracy and detail doesn’t necessarily mean prefereable sound for all clearly.

I suspect (and hope) the big plus for the ND555 will be performance consistency across transport types and streaming conditions and optimisation to more closely resemble and exceed the CD555 sonic character. I’d be surprised if Naim depart from their more traditional DAC approach.... as there is a lot of know how on optimising that architecture now albeit it’s quite classic and established in approach... but we will have to wait and see.

All DAC reconstruction is necessarily a compromise and at this level I believe it’s about personal preference on how it’s done and where the compromises are made.

 

Indeed, the anecdote I heard was the ND555 was to sound more musical than the CD555... there was a view, apparently, by some the NDS fell a little short to the CD555 here.... but as I say all hearsay...

I personally was ultimately underwhelmed by the CDS3 and sold mine on after having not owned it for too long... so I would be looking forward to something somewhat different.... 

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I personally was ultimately underwhelmed by the CDS3 and sold mine on after having not owned it for too long... so I would be looking forward to something somewhat different.... 

Same here re CDS3.

Apart from exceeding the CD555 in terms of sound quality and convenience, I am hoping it needs no more than 2 boxes to deliver the performance.  Not sure I would be willing to let the CD555 go and am reaching the vertical limits of Fraim!

Gavin L posted:
Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I personally was ultimately underwhelmed by the CDS3 and sold mine on after having not owned it for too long... so I would be looking forward to something somewhat different.... 

Same here re CDS3.

Apart from exceeding the CD555 in terms of sound quality and convenience, I am hoping it needs no more than 2 boxes to deliver the performance.  Not sure I would be willing to let the CD555 go and am reaching the vertical limits of Fraim!

It is interesting how some want the new ND555 to sound similar to CDS3, others want it to sound similar to CD555. Now I understand why some like the sound of NDS and others do not . We all hear differently. So how does Naim engineers design the perfect sounding streamer we all agree is incredible ?  I bet there will be disagreement on how good it is when it finally is released. Some are going to love it, others not as much. But I guess that is why there is so many different electronic and speaker companies. What sounds great to one person just is not so great to another . It is interesting though!  I hope this new ND555 is fantastic so there is little disagreement. That is a lot of pressure on Naim though .  

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

The sound may well be advanced on the ND555 but at the current level of DAC performances this becomes less of an issue - as personal preferences come into play  - but what I would most expect from the new streamer is increased consistency which is the weakness of the current streamers... ie Tidal should sound the same for the same master as local streamed content - it doesn't on the current streamers usually - on the ND555 i will be looking for equivalence - hopefully Naim will be there or a lot closer...

S

I suspect no streamer will be able to remove the Tidal watermarking

And what generalised water marking is that, references please..... I have looked at a limited subset of samples for the same masters previously and noticed nothing untoward...  specific distributors such as  UMG are believed to watermark their digitally distributed  masters, and not Tidal LOL... and in that case  you may well find that watermarking is on all downloads and digitally streamed media from that distributor on whatever platform. It’s the distributor you need to watch, not the platform...

BTW I forgot to say you can train yourself to be able to detect audio watermarks

http://mattmontag.com/audio-listening-test/

There are also watermark analyzers that  you can use to  extract the copyright info  from the media .. so you see what is watermarked and what isn’t...

In my experience watermarked files are noticeably inferior and distorted in the mid frequencies compared to non watermarked files... 

This is certainly the product that has reawakened my ‘upgraditis’ at I time I thought my system was complete. The NDS with a 555PS DR ‘up it’, is a very fine sounding source, but I had been wondering whether a new streaming module based on the latest platform would ever be made available as a dealer upgrade. I had assumed that the DSP, DAC and analogue reconstruction filters were about as good as they could be, but it seems Naim have a few more tricks up their sleeve. I’m looking forward to reading the ND555 White Paper in the coming months!

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

BTW I forgot to say you can train yourself to be able to detect audio watermarks

http://mattmontag.com/audio-listening-test/

There are also watermark analyzers that  you can use to  extract the copyright info  from the media .. so you see what is watermarked and what isn’t...

In my experience watermarked files are noticeably inferior and distorted in the mid frequencies compared to non watermarked files... 

So you buy a file from hdtrack, Qobuz etc. think you got first class quality and they watermarked it? Bummer...

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I know it’s not good at all... it’s CDs for me now unless I am confident it’s not a UMG or Sony download...

'High Res' is a bit of a mine field as far as quality is concerned and the files I'd really like to try by Analogue Productions don't seem to be available in this country.

DaveBk posted:

This is certainly the product that has reawakened my ‘upgraditis’ at I time I thought my system was complete. The NDS with a 555PS DR ‘up it’, is a very fine sounding source, but I had been wondering whether a new streaming module based on the latest platform would ever be made available as a dealer upgrade. I had assumed that the DSP, DAC and analogue reconstruction filters were about as good as they could be, but it seems Naim have a few more tricks up their sleeve. I’m looking forward to reading the ND555 White Paper in the coming months!

With such high expectations, I hope the ND555 is spectacular! 

I have been told by a dealer that the 2 burndy feeds are totally separate on the ND555 and the unit therefore needs 2 feeds to operate - ie with NDS it will work with an a single XPS ....... the ND555 wont. I can only surmise that Naim have improved the noise separation/jitter by improving the analogue isolation - even further. I seem to remember the NDS separates the digital to analogue with an optical link ...... but there still are some power rails shared..... So, I think the ND555 front end (which the dealer told me will be linux based) will have all the latest support ..Roon etc etc with the requisite selected DAC .... then the analogue section will be optimised further ......... it is a mouth watering prospect ........ which will make a considerable dent in your flexible friend!

Richieroo posted:

I have been told by a dealer that the 2 burndy feeds are totally separate on the ND555 and the unit therefore needs 2 feeds to operate - ie with NDS it will work with an a single XPS ....... the ND555 wont.

SNIP

Isn't that to be expected? It's just like the CD555, which the ND555 replaces - mandatory use of (presumably, in the case of ND555) 555PS?

Although, you have just dismayed those who wanted (expected ? ) an internal PSU...

Timo posted:
T38.45 posted:

do we know when the new NDS will hit the market? Seems that ND555 will be sooner, right?

 

Obviously, none of us has a clue -- but personally I wouldn't expect Naim to have 4 streamers... 

No I expect 5 as there was always a demand for a ND5i or such below the ND5 XS

Richieroo posted:

I am not a betting man but there has to be a cascade update - down the line with the streamers........I would expect some rationalisation - I would think the NDS would be at risk for the chop, with NDX and say ND5 on the cards...exciting times ahead!

I am thinking they are replacing all streamers and power supplies ! No info that supports that ! Just a guess ! But it makes sense to do so . 

musicfan51 posted:

I am thinking they are replacing all streamers and power supplies ! No info that supports that ! Just a guess ! But it makes sense to do so . 

It’s not long since the power supplies were updated.  I think all the streamers will be updated though (over 1-2 years at a guess).

musicfan51 posted:
Richieroo posted:

I am not a betting man but there has to be a cascade update - down the line with the streamers........I would expect some rationalisation - I would think the NDS would be at risk for the chop, with NDX and say ND5 on the cards...exciting times ahead!

I am thinking they are replacing all streamers and power supplies ! No info that supports that ! Just a guess ! But it makes sense to do so . 

Why does it make sense to replace the power supplies?

musicfan51 posted:
Richieroo posted:

I am not a betting man but there has to be a cascade update - down the line with the streamers........I would expect some rationalisation - I would think the NDS would be at risk for the chop, with NDX and say ND5 on the cards...exciting times ahead!

I am thinking they are replacing all streamers and power supplies ! No info that supports that ! Just a guess ! But it makes sense to do so . 

To me, it makes much more sense to replace the NDS with ND555 (if it turns out to be big improvement, which I’m sure it will be) and to continue to use 555Ps DR(s) to power it.

nigelb posted:

Just to be clear, is it believed that the ND555 will require 2 x PS555s or will one suffice as per the NDS?

I know we will find out at the Bristol show but was wondering if anyone has inside information

Rumors have it that it requires two power supplies!  Not confirmed however ! 

yeti42 posted:

It might be better with two but it will require one to function, they’d be over limiting its appeal else.

Over limiting it's appeal @ £26,000! Although if they keep it to just a nice round £20,000 and they'll be queuing round the block I suppose.  Perhaps the Israeli guy can knock up a dual psu and keep it down to about £15,500.

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