NDS/555DR vs NDS/555DR+NDac - burn in time?

Hi all, 

after only ten days hearing my new NDS/555DR-combo I am not so happy with it.  I installed now again my Ndac and hear the nds through the digital out - and find the sound with the Ndac more enjoyable: warmer, fuller, not harsh in the hights like the nds sometimes seems to be in my setting to my ears. But 3 boxes for a streamer was not the plan... Any thoughts? Time will change? Thanks to all!

My setting:

NDS/555DR, 202, FCXS, NAPSC, 200

vs 

NDS/555DR, DC1, Ndac, 202, FCXS, NAPSC, 200

Original Post

yes it will change

give it 4 weeks. It does say that in the manual.

Make sure the NDS grounding switch is on chassis and don't connect NDS and NDAC DIN cable at the same time to you 202.

If you do, one of them has to be set on floating.

I thought the NDS was supposed to have either the same DAC as the NDac or better. As the others have suggested, it may be a set up problem. Did you have it installed by a Naim Audio dealer?

Installed it by myself: brand new boxes, 2 new Burndys, 2 free fraim shelves, NDS on top, 555 bottom, DIN cable old one from my NDac and changed it, NDS chassis, Ndac floating..

It indeed 4 to 5 months for my NDS to settlen in and my 555DR was already burned in. :]

It should be noted that a rare few indeed have preferred nDAC 555PS to NDS/555DR. I would also suggest to quickly upgrade 202 with HCDR and/or consider 282/250DR only if your speakers are of that level.<:)

Chag -

 

What source did you use with the nDac previously? While the new boxes will run in over time, you should clearly hear the difference by now. What is odd is that the NDS sounds better through a bare nDac. It would be more understandable if there was a 555PS on the nDac. Are the two burndies hanging free and not touching anything?

NDS takes around 2 weeks to come 'on song'. 555PS DR up to 8 weeks.

Burndies must be de-stressed prior to the installation, gently formed into a required shape. They must hang free, not touching anything.

The same goes for the interconnect.

A silly question, but has to be asked: have you removed the transit screws?

The transit screws are carefully removed in the beginning and now the burndys hang free.

The NDS replaces my loved CDX2 (what perhaps always is a mistake) and is not as punchy, but that I didn't expect. They do sound different. I just was irritated by the fact that the nds sounds better through the ndac. Now I take it like this: The ndac is burned in since years (and did a great job with my serve) and the Dac of the NDS is new. Hope in two or three weeks it will change.

Many thanks for your support!

Both the NDS and 555DR take months to fully burn in. I think it was the 555DR that had quite a noticable change for the better at around 8 weeks old.

You should be noticing that the sound changes from day to day, at first this is very obvious but as the weeks go on it becomes less obvious, until after a few months the changing stops.

Be patient, the NDS/555DR combo is amazing once burned in. It's certainly not over bright and is much fuller and warmer than anything I ever heard through my ndac.

Doesn't matter how long the NDS or the PS take to burn in, they should sound excellent out of the box and after that just get better with the odd swing.  Ten days of unhappiness and no end in sight sounds like something is wrong. My NDS replaced the DAC/555PS and the "improvement" for me was significant from the first note. Personally I don't think your amps can do an NDS justice but source first has always made the most difference for me. So who knows? 

Did you audition before purchase? I spent a week at home with mine and bought the audition unit (I was the first customer to try it straight out of the factory). If you can't audition it, don't buy it. If you can't audition anything then any purchase, however beloved by everyone else, is a roll of the dice. If it is doing your ears in I suggest  getting the dealer over   to check the installation. It's what they're for. Among other things. They might have delivered  you  a duff one. It happens and Naim are world class at after  sales service. 

All the best with it.

+1 for Harry.

I bough my NDS exactly the same way. I gave the test unit back after 2 weeks, put my NDX back on and the only comment I can quote (to be polite) was: 'someone took my music away'. So I stuggled for another 3 weeks and finally gave in and bought the demo unit.
With 555PS DR we did something different - the dealer wisely said: that is the less critical component here, so he ordered a completely new one and let me use theirs while I waited so I could enjoy my NDS.
The 'burn in' for the brand new 555PS DR was approximately 8 weeks, but as Harry wrote - it sounded 'right' straight out of the box.

Yeah ok, this is the forum dilema.   Contribute or not?   Ardbeg10y, just imagine you finally replaced that old clunker you are driving and someone says " gees, you spent all that money on a car"......just after you said how much you were enjoying it.

i don't know about you but i have a Naim front end.  NDAC and XPS DR ( when the Aussie dollar was much healthier).  Even that was not cheap, but it was a few trades up from a CD5X and power supply. That also wasn't cheap i guess.  I have an ipod that plays music just fine. Should i have stopped with the ipod?

People know what they have spent. Many went without some things to get there ( and many didn't) and are happy with their choice.  I don't think it serves any purpose to point out its an expensive toy.  I think they know that.

i'm sitting hear after a long day enjoying some tunes on the NDAC.  Years on from the initial purchase i am just fine with my choice.

Briz Vegas posted:

Yeah ok, this is the forum dilema.   Contribute or not?   Ardbeg10y, just imagine you finally replaced that old clunker you are driving and someone says " gees, you spent all that money on a car"......just after you said how much you were enjoying it.

i don't know about you but i have a Naim front end.  NDAC and XPS DR ( when the Aussie dollar was much healthier).  Even that was not cheap, but it was a few trades up from a CD5X and power supply. That also wasn't cheap i guess.  I have an ipod that plays music just fine. Should i have stopped with the ipod?

People know what they have spent. Many went without some things to get there ( and many didn't) and are happy with their choice.  I don't think it serves any purpose to point out its an expensive toy.  I think they know that.

i'm sitting hear after a long day enjoying some tunes on the NDAC.  Years on from the initial purchase i am just fine with my choice.

Briz, sorry and thanks for the lesson. I think you're right, and hope to be in the same hifi league as many of you. nVi ....

Andib posted:

Installed it by myself: brand new boxes, 2 new Burndys, 2 free fraim shelves, NDS on top, 555 bottom, DIN cable old one from my NDac and changed it, NDS chassis, Ndac floating..

If the NDS is feeding the DAC and the DAC is connected via DIN to your preamp, shouldn't the DAC grounding switch be set on chassis?

The DAC chips are the exact same in both units however the NDS has the advantage of suspension. The two boxes sound different but the NDS really shouldn't sound worse than the NDS.

And there is some warm-up time with the NDS so I humbly suggest you remove the DAC, set the NDS on chassis, and let the NDS/555 warm-up at least two weeks before making any decisions.

Arun

Just some impressions after the next ten days - thank you for all the good advices!

I put the ndac out of the fraim and let the nds/555DR run run run. Sometimes it sounded really good, sometimes not. I changed the source and took my serve via DC1 through the nds instead of Tidal via wlan (Airport express/cheap network cable). A big step. I really have to buy a good quality network cable and connect the nds without wlan. But also via the cheap one per wlan SQ becomes better every day! Now it begins to sound like I hoped and know it from other settings. Deep, warm, clear, big, nice. A real enjoyment! 

What'd be your advice for the next step to prepare for 282 or 252 (2 HC vs 1 SC): 

NDS/555DR, 202/HCDR/NAPSC, Superline/HCDR, 200 (The 282 I can run later with both HC.)

vs

NDS/555DR, 202/SCDR/NAPSC, Superline, 200 (perfect only for a later 252?)

or better first a 250DR?

(current setting: NDS/555DR, 202/FCXS/NAPSC/Superline, 200)

Thank you!

Jesus!!! - were you really running NDS via wireless and evaluating it just on Tidal? It's like getting a Ferrari, forgetting to fit tyres and listening to the engine on idal.

Wired, good quality connection is the advisable way to go.

If you seriosuly contemplate 252 than get a SuperCap and don't bother with HiCaps. 

As to NAP250 vs 200 - but with that level of equipment 250 DR is a most obvious path (not to mention NAP300).

Thanks, Adam! That's why I'm #5548 But a good source has not to be bad also via wlan, isn't it...? But you are right, it's a bit silly and I will do it. Just one more question: Is it better to connect the serve via network/switch than via DC1?

Thank you.

Andreas

The primary way of connecting a UnitiServe and NDS is as follows:

* Both are connected via a LAN cable (min is Cat 5) to a switch

* If you also use a NAS, it is also connected to the same switch

* The switch is connected to a modem / wireless router via a LAN cable

This way NDS, UnitiServe can access the internet and you can controll them using an iOS or Android device running Naim apps.

Also the ethernet cables make a very noticable difference to the sound. I use an audioquest vodka from switch to nds, and a meicord from synology nas to switch. This combo gave a big lift to the sound. The combo used does vary according to room and system so a bit of home dem and experimentation is advisable. 

Your nds/555dr combo are superb and will get better and better with attention to set up and some tweaking.

I was using Vodka from room switch to NDS but have moved on to Chord C Stream., which to me sounds more transparent (which is to say, doesn't really sound like anything). The AQ for me, had a slight edge which was a worthwhile trade off until I had a go on the C Stream. It's a variable, not to mention highly subjective area. Just for a change!

There is a www magazine test the looked into the effects on SQ of ethernet between the various components (& with a more complex home net than most) & found just as per HH (above)       #1 is Switch to NAS,  #2 (& nearly as important as #1)  Switch to NAS.  

I found the same using my current MeiCord (Cat6) cables swapping around some other cables (2x makes of Cat7 & an old damaged Cat5)  in fact I reckon both #1 & #2 are equally important.  What I could not detect was any difference in SQ with the Switch to Modem branch.   

Hey all,

I want to thank you for your help and give my latest impressions concerning my new NDS after now eleven weeks. It all changed completely:

In the beginning my new NDS/555DR-combo sounded a bit harsh and a bit flat and all my experiments ended in my strong impression that my old ndac is sure the better dac. It all was very disappointing. 

I did some changes (connected NDS and US via switch (TP-Link 8port TL-SG108E) and some good but no name cat7-cables) put the ndac out of the frame and waited and prayed. And became afraid in week 5 and 6 and 7 because it still was not good. But after week 8 it all began to change. 

Now I can say: Yes, NDS/555PS rules! Also with 202/200/FCXS/NAPSC it is really beautiful! Ok, I tried some upgrades and yes it sure was a benefit (282 and 250 will perhaps come later and I ordered the SL speaker cables...) BUT it was not really necessary! FOR ME THIS IS THE PROOF: SOURCE FIRST IS THE RIGHT WAY TO GO! And the musicality of the NDS is hard to beat...

Best regards out of berlin!

I am really happy to read your contentment Andi. I still believe however that NDS/555DR can only give its full potential in resolution, refinement and transparence from 252/250 level up. I would also have climbed up that ladder before considering SL speakers or even I/C for that matter. But this is all relative. To each its own.

Chag -   

The source first approach to system hierarchy has not failed me yet but I try to keep an open mind. It’s never straight cut and black and white and it will never work for all listeners in all rooms. But it’s never steered me wrong. The NDS being a case in point. The benefit was clear from the start and after that it just kept getting better and better – unlike your experience but with what sounds like the same result. Hook coined a phrase for the NDS contents “The NDS Retirement Village”. I have been a happy member of that community for some time. I’m just lost in my music and the HiFi is invisible and seldom thought about.

I am in a minority in not liking the 250. I think it tries too hard to sound clever and rather predictably, ends up sounding like it’s trying too hard. I haven’t changed my view after spending some time with the DR version. It may work a treat for you. I would not consider one without a long home audition. The over saturated and crash bang wallop presentation of the 250 is for me at odds with the grip, poise, subtlety and effortless delight of the NDS.  The latter is musical while the former tends to sounding mechanical. Your ears may think different. Your money your choice. As long as fun is had. 

AndiB - well done for sticking with it. It does take a while, but the result is rather good isn't it?
As you mention possible upgrades for the future - 282 / HiCap / 250 is a good, solid combo. I enjoyed mine (albeit with a SuperCap), but we never really got on together so it was changed for a pre-loved 252. 

You should demo as many combinations as possible, just to find the one you really enjoy.
Regardless of your final choice you will have a wonderful system.

Harry posted:

The over saturated and crash bang wallop presentation of the 250 . 

Having had a 250.2 for a while, Harry, I enjoyed your description. While a little over-the-top I wouldn't say you were wrong.  For all that, the 250.2 is great fun though. Given the choice between accuracy which is boring against some coloration which is fun I know which I'd chose.     

Harry posted:

The over saturated and crash bang wallop presentation of the 250 is for me at odds with the grip, poise, subtlety and effortless delight of the NDS. 

Not great reading for those toiling in the lower reaches, for whom the NAC282/ HCDR/ and NAP250.2 (or DR) represents the zenith of their Naim amplifier ambitions!

C.

×
×
×
×