network streaming tweaks

hey all, i just started using a unitiqute. so what are the things i can tweak for SQ?

1. nas. is a nas certain to be better for sq than a hard disk hooked up to a computer?

2. ethernet cables. i saw chord company has some of these. anybody tried that?

3. since i can control the music through the naim app, i dont need a computer with a screen. any benefit in using raspberry pi or intel nuc? lesser interference, traffic, jitter etc?

4. is there an audiophile router or rather a router more suited by its features for streaming music?

5. i am currently using asset upnp. is there anything better than this?

Anything else?

Appreciate the insights.

 

Original Post

if i am not mistaken network tweaks are about lowering the noise floor than about anything to do with the unitiqute. 

for most part i am just trying to understand the setup. where it makes sense i might go for it. or sometimes not based on cost.

anyway what is the logic with the switch? is the chain supposed to be : router -> switch -> unitiqute ?

and is the nas supposed to be hooked up to the switch?

appreciate the clarification.

Mike-B posted:
French Rooster posted:

yes, router_switch_uniqute, nas also to this switch. you can add an ifi power to your switch, to replace the smps ( the stock ps).  

A picture paints a thousand words .........  assuming you can read a schematic

your schematic doesn’t show clearly that the nas and streamer should not be connected to the router directly but to the dedicated switch.  Or i am silly and can’t read a schematic....

French Rooster posted:
Mike-B posted:
French Rooster posted:

yes, router_switch_uniqute, nas also to this switch. you can add an ifi power to your switch, to replace the smps ( the stock ps).  

A picture paints a thousand words .........  assuming you can read a schematic

your schematic doesn’t show clearly that the nas and streamer should not be connected to the router directly but to the dedicated switch.  Or i am silly and can’t read a schematic....

Schematic shows switch is optional, to extend the network in any or all directions.  The router itself is a switch (on the LAN side) if it allows you to directly connect more than one device.  Some routers have only one port, and thus require a separate switch to attach any number of nodes (computers, NASes, printers etc.)

Nick

Obsydian posted:

Get  Cisco switch and as a start the chord entry cables one from router to switch and one from switch to streamer.

With regards to both I would no regard them as tweaks if anything essential components.

you are right, these tweaks are essential but took separately, one by one, they give minor improvement. But the global network upgrade improve significantly :  dedicated switch with linear ps or minimum ifi power, or cisco 2960, good lans cables , optical bridge on linear ps ....

I am not sure that the op should invest in all these tweaks that cost nearly the price of the unitiqute.  For an ndx or nds level, it is worthwhile 

I would go just for a cisco 2960 used and factory reset , with a lan cable like chord c stream or meicord lan cable.

NickSeattle posted:
French Rooster posted:
Mike-B posted:
French Rooster posted:

yes, router_switch_uniqute, nas also to this switch. you can add an ifi power to your switch, to replace the smps ( the stock ps).  

A picture paints a thousand words .........  assuming you can read a schematic

your schematic doesn’t show clearly that the nas and streamer should not be connected to the router directly but to the dedicated switch.  Or i am silly and can’t read a schematic....

Schematic shows switch is optional, to extend the network in any or all directions.  The router itself is a switch (on the LAN side) if it allows you to directly connect more than one device.  Some routers have only one port, and thus require a separate switch to attach any number of nodes (computers, NASes, printers etc.)

Nick

So i read it like you.  The op asked if the streamer and nas should be connected to the dedicated switch to improve sound quality.  A direct connection to the router for the nas and streamer is not a good option for sound quality.

French Rooster posted:

 

your schematic doesn’t show clearly that the nas and streamer should not be connected to the router directly but to the dedicated switch.  Or i am silly and can’t read a schematic....

Yes you're right about one thing,  you can't read a schematic

Does this help??

Mike-B posted:
French Rooster posted:

 

your schematic doesn’t show clearly that the nas and streamer should not be connected to the router directly but to the dedicated switch.  Or i am silly and can’t read a schematic....

Yes you are right,  you can't read a schematic

Does this help??

this schematic is better for my understanding and shows clearly that nas and streamer are not connected directly to the router.  But perhaps you are right, i didn’t know how to read correctly your first schematic.  I am not a scientific....

Mike I think you are being unnecessarily rude to the OP. I can read a schematic and as an engineer they are my bread and butter. I also understand completely about what your schematic is showing, but I don't think the first one with the dotted lines was clear at all. This latest one is though!

best

David

GraemeH posted:

Hmmm...when I connected my NAS to the switch the iPad didn’t find it. I had to connect it directly to the modem/router for it to be found.

Am I doing something stupid? 

NAS connected to modem/router connected to switch connected to 272.

G

i don’t think you are doing something stupid.  But i have not the knowledge to explain you why your ipad doesn’t find your nas if connected to the switch.

You should ask Simon in the suffolk or Mike B....

For myself, my unitserve is connected to the dedicated switch and also my nds, the switch is connected to the router. All is working perfectly with the app.   The router is noisy, so a connection to the dedicated switch, on ifi power or linear ps, is better for sound quality.

GraemeH posted:

Hmmm...when I connected my NAS to the switch the iPad didn’t find it. I had to connect it directly to the modem/router for it to be found.        Am I doing something stupid?      NAS connected to modem/router connected to switch connected to 272.      G

Hi Graeme,  either your switch is faulty or it has not been set up correctly.  What switch ???   If its a simple unmanaged switch they normally 'learn' the network devices in a few minutes,  or it might need to be powered on first before the individual connections are powered on or are connected when already live.  If its a managed switch,  its read the manual time,  reset to default & then diagnose if indeed it is defective.   

David Hendon posted:

Mike I think you are being unnecessarily rude to the OP. I can read a schematic and as an engineer they are my bread and butter. I also understand completely about what your schematic is showing, but I don't think the first one with the dotted lines was clear at all. This latest one is though!

best

David

thanks David...

I didn’t follow the first one either. 

Graeme, if you connect up like in Mike’s second picture, and start the router, then the switch, then the Nas and then the 272, leaving a little while for each to sort itself out, everything will work itself out and your iPad will see the music on the nas. 

That setup is all the OP needs. A cheap Netgear switch and standard wires are fine. A nas is ideal as it is always available and means that the music can be played without needing to turn the computer on. 

David Hendon posted:

Mike I think you are being unnecessarily rude to the OP.      David

If the rooster thinks I'm being rude,  I apologise.  It was intended as a light hearted leg pull in response to his own words.   But if it takes a  to make it clear its a leg pull,  OK.  

Mike-B posted:
David Hendon posted:

Mike I think you are being unnecessarily rude to the OP.      David

If the rooster thinks I'm being rude,  I apologise.  It was intended as a light hearted leg pull in response to his own words.   But if it takes a  to make it clear its a leg pull,  OK.  

a little rude but no problem Mike B....  When you say »my own words « , don’t forget that i am thinking in french language when i am writing in english....

GraemeH posted:

Hmmm...when I connected my NAS to the switch the iPad didn’t find it. I had to connect it directly to the modem/router for it to be found.

In most cases this has to do with the IGMP protocol. If the switch does support it but its implementation is buggy this can lead to problems in finding UPnP streamers or servers. If the switch offers the possibility to configure it, you could could check if the IGMP protocol can be turned off.

With a fine working IGMP support the detection time of the UPnP components should be quicker than without IGMP.

GraemeH posted:

Tis the cisco 2960. 272 found and all fully functioning otherwise Mike.

Maybe I’ll give it another go. Does it matter which port I use?

G

sometimes , but it is rare, my unitserve is lost and doesn’t appear. I restart my nds or the app or the serve( like nas) and all is working.  Try to switch off then on your 272 first. I not working, restart all....  I have also the cisco 2960 , it is a bit temperamental or capricious ( i don’t know the good word).

Hungryhalibut posted:

I didn’t follow the first one either. 

Graeme, if you connect up like in Mike’s second picture, and start the router, then the switch, then the Nas and then the 272, leaving a little while for each to sort itself out, everything will work itself out and your iPad will see the music on the nas. 

That setup is all the OP needs. A cheap Netgear switch and standard wires are fine. A nas is ideal as it is always available and means that the music can be played without needing to turn the computer on. 

Thanks HH & FR just spotted the replies. Will try.

G

Mike-B posted:
French Rooster posted:

a little rude but no problem Mike B....  When you say »my own words « , don’t forget that i am thinking in french language when i am writing in english....

Exactement, j'apprecie que vous n'offensez pas.    

que vous ne vous offensez pas.   I appreciate Mike B.   Perhaps i am also a little rude or direct when i write and it can irritate....

But no matter, all is fine now.

vtpcnk posted:

hey all, i just started using a unitiqute. so what are the things i can tweak for SQ? 

Which file format are you using for streaming? If it is not wav (but flac or something else) it might increase the sound quality when switching to wav. This can be done on the fly with e.g. minimserver installed on a NAS. So this might be a reason to use a good NAS.

At least with my uniti1 wav sounds much better (smoother) than flac which sounds harder somehow.

French Rooster posted:
Obsydian posted:

Get  Cisco switch and as a start the chord entry cables one from router to switch and one from switch to streamer.

With regards to both I would no regard them as tweaks if anything essential components.

you are right, these tweaks are essential but took separately, one by one, they give minor improvement. But the global network upgrade improve significantly :  dedicated switch with linear ps or minimum ifi power, or cisco 2960, good lans cables , optical bridge on linear ps ....

I am not sure that the op should invest in all these tweaks that cost nearly the price of the unitiqute.  For an ndx or nds level, it is worthwhile 

I would go just for a cisco 2960 used and factory reset , with a lan cable like chord c stream or meicord lan cable.

Interesting you disagree then state my proposal, in the same response.

Obsydian posted:
French Rooster posted:
Obsydian posted:

Get  Cisco switch and as a start the chord entry cables one from router to switch and one from switch to streamer.

With regards to both I would no regard them as tweaks if anything essential components.

you are right, these tweaks are essential but took separately, one by one, they give minor improvement. But the global network upgrade improve significantly :  dedicated switch with linear ps or minimum ifi power, or cisco 2960, good lans cables , optical bridge on linear ps ....

I am not sure that the op should invest in all these tweaks that cost nearly the price of the unitiqute.  For an ndx or nds level, it is worthwhile 

I would go just for a cisco 2960 used and factory reset , with a lan cable like chord c stream or meicord lan cable.

Interesting you disagree then state my proposal, in the same response.

i am not very clear i think.  I wanted to say that for an ndx/ nds/ linn klimax level, upgrading the network is essential, but this system is enough revealing to show the differences in sound quality. It has a cost too: audioquest vodka level of cables, dedicated switch, fmc converters with linear ps, nas or serve on linear ps.  

But the op has a uniqute.  It is an integrated amp/dac/ streamer for around 1700GBP.  Do you think, in that case, that it is worthwhile to invest in an network ‘s upgrade in that case?

Just a dedicated switch and a not so bad lan cable should be enough.  Or invest in a better amp and steamer first, like supernait with nd5xs....

GraemeH posted:

Tis the cisco 2960. 272 found and all fully functioning otherwise Mike.

Maybe I’ll give it another go. Does it matter which port I use?

You can use any port, they are all the same (except for the console port). Has it been reset to factory settings? 

French Rooster posted:
Obsydian posted:
French Rooster posted:
Obsydian posted:

Get  Cisco switch and as a start the chord entry cables one from router to switch and one from switch to streamer.

With regards to both I would no regard them as tweaks if anything essential components.

you are right, these tweaks are essential but took separately, one by one, they give minor improvement. But the global network upgrade improve significantly :  dedicated switch with linear ps or minimum ifi power, or cisco 2960, good lans cables , optical bridge on linear ps ....

I am not sure that the op should invest in all these tweaks that cost nearly the price of the unitiqute.  For an ndx or nds level, it is worthwhile 

I would go just for a cisco 2960 used and factory reset , with a lan cable like chord c stream or meicord lan cable.

Interesting you disagree then state my proposal, in the same response.

i am not very clear i think.  I wanted to say that for an ndx/ nds/ linn klimax level, upgrading the network is essential, but this system is enough revealing to show the differences in sound quality. It has a cost too: audioquest vodka level of cables, dedicated switch, fmc converters with linear ps, nas or serve on linear ps.  

But the op has a uniqute.  It is an integrated amp/dac/ streamer for around 1700GBP.  Do you think, in that case, that it is worthwhile to invest in an network ‘s upgrade in that case?

Just a dedicated switch and a not so bad lan cable should be enough.  Or invest in a better amp and steamer first, like supernait with nd5xs....

Disagree - i would say Cisco switch (2960 has on board power) £100, Chord Stream cables x 2 = £100 - TOTAL £200, cheaper than one AQ Vodka but a great starting point.

Obsydian posted:
French Rooster posted:
Obsydian posted:
French Rooster posted:
Obsydian posted:

Get  Cisco switch and as a start the chord entry cables one from router to switch and one from switch to streamer.

With regards to both I would no regard them as tweaks if anything essential components.

you are right, these tweaks are essential but took separately, one by one, they give minor improvement. But the global network upgrade improve significantly :  dedicated switch with linear ps or minimum ifi power, or cisco 2960, good lans cables , optical bridge on linear ps ....

I am not sure that the op should invest in all these tweaks that cost nearly the price of the unitiqute.  For an ndx or nds level, it is worthwhile 

I would go just for a cisco 2960 used and factory reset , with a lan cable like chord c stream or meicord lan cable.

Interesting you disagree then state my proposal, in the same response.

i am not very clear i think.  I wanted to say that for an ndx/ nds/ linn klimax level, upgrading the network is essential, but this system is enough revealing to show the differences in sound quality. It has a cost too: audioquest vodka level of cables, dedicated switch, fmc converters with linear ps, nas or serve on linear ps.  

But the op has a uniqute.  It is an integrated amp/dac/ streamer for around 1700GBP.  Do you think, in that case, that it is worthwhile to invest in an network ‘s upgrade in that case?

Just a dedicated switch and a not so bad lan cable should be enough.  Or invest in a better amp and steamer first, like supernait with nd5xs....

Disagree - i would say Cisco switch (2960 has on board power) £100, Chord Stream cables x 2 = £100 - TOTAL £200, cheaper than one AQ Vodka but a great starting point.

i saïd the same at the end of my post: just a dedicated switch : cisco.   not so bad lan: chord stream     I think we agree

>Disagree - i would say Cisco switch (2960 has on board power) £100, 

Can I know which particular model you are referring to? new or used?

>TOTAL £200, cheaper than one AQ Vodka but a great starting point.

after a few years in "audiophile" experimentation and a whole lot of misses than hits, i doubt i will go beyond this starting point. nowadays i nostalgically look back at my bose days when i actually used to enjoy music than spending a whole lot of time and money on equipment matching, synergy, power cords etc.

now i just want to get the basics right and forget about it and simply enjoy music.

vtpcnk posted:

>Disagree - i would say Cisco switch (2960 has on board power) £100, 

Can I know which particular model you are referring to? new or used?

>TOTAL £200, cheaper than one AQ Vodka but a great starting point.

after a few years in "audiophile" experimentation and a whole lot of misses than hits, i doubt i will go beyond this starting point. nowadays i nostalgically look back at my bose days when i actually used to enjoy music than spending a whole lot of time and money on equipment matching, synergy, power cords etc.

now i just want to get the basics right and forget about it and simply enjoy music.

i use personnaly the cisco 2960-8tc used, refurbished and factory reset , paid around 50GBP.

It is the model recommended by the forum.  So i would go for this one and c stream lan for you.    But i would not go for a complete network optimization with high quality lan cables, linear ps on fmc converters and linear ps on nas, for your system.

I can’t be more clear with my french -english language. It is what i tried to say before.  Sorry if i was not clear.....

vtpcnk posted:

>Disagree - i would say Cisco switch (2960 has on board power) £100, 

Can I know which particular model you are referring to? new or used?

>TOTAL £200, cheaper than one AQ Vodka but a great starting point.

after a few years in "audiophile" experimentation and a whole lot of misses than hits, i doubt i will go beyond this starting point. nowadays i nostalgically look back at my bose days when i actually used to enjoy music than spending a whole lot of time and money on equipment matching, synergy, power cords etc.

now i just want to get the basics right and forget about it and simply enjoy music.

I must admit 15 20 yrs ago when I got hooked on Naim i loved the Naim leads are best and aside from black burndies were all cheap. 

As Rooster says we agree, but would say do the switch first and see, if that works for you (you may disagree), then definitely try the Chord C Stream.

Regards the 2960 I started with one off the Bay, but recently purchased a brand new sealed unit, yes it cost allot but for me it's box upgrade type improvement not a tweak.

French Rooster posted:
Obsydian posted:
French Rooster posted:
Obsydian posted:

Get  Cisco switch and as a start the chord entry cables one from router to switch and one from switch to streamer.

With regards to both I would no regard them as tweaks if anything essential components.

you are right, these tweaks are essential but took separately, one by one, they give minor improvement. But the global network upgrade improve significantly :  dedicated switch with linear ps or minimum ifi power, or cisco 2960, good lans cables , optical bridge on linear ps ....

I am not sure that the op should invest in all these tweaks that cost nearly the price of the unitiqute.  For an ndx or nds level, it is worthwhile 

I would go just for a cisco 2960 used and factory reset , with a lan cable like chord c stream or meicord lan cable.

Interesting you disagree then state my proposal, in the same response.

i am not very clear i think.  I wanted to say that for an ndx/ nds/ linn klimax level, upgrading the network is essential, but this system is enough revealing to show the differences in sound quality. It has a cost too: audioquest vodka level of cables, dedicated switch, fmc converters with linear ps, nas or serve on linear ps.  

But the op has a uniqute.  It is an integrated amp/dac/ streamer for around 1700GBP.  Do you think, in that case, that it is worthwhile to invest in an network ‘s upgrade in that case?

Just a dedicated switch and a not so bad lan cable should be enough.  Or invest in a better amp and steamer first, like supernait with nd5xs....

Could you elloborate as am interested in the steps beyond switch and cables - bridge and isolation...

Obsydian posted:
French Rooster posted:
Obsydian posted:
French Rooster posted:
Obsydian posted:

Get  Cisco switch and as a start the chord entry cables one from router to switch and one from switch to streamer.

With regards to both I would no regard them as tweaks if anything essential components.

you are right, these tweaks are essential but took separately, one by one, they give minor improvement. But the global network upgrade improve significantly :  dedicated switch with linear ps or minimum ifi power, or cisco 2960, good lans cables , optical bridge on linear ps ....

I am not sure that the op should invest in all these tweaks that cost nearly the price of the unitiqute.  For an ndx or nds level, it is worthwhile 

I would go just for a cisco 2960 used and factory reset , with a lan cable like chord c stream or meicord lan cable.

Interesting you disagree then state my proposal, in the same response.

i am not very clear i think.  I wanted to say that for an ndx/ nds/ linn klimax level, upgrading the network is essential, but this system is enough revealing to show the differences in sound quality. It has a cost too: audioquest vodka level of cables, dedicated switch, fmc converters with linear ps, nas or serve on linear ps.  

But the op has a uniqute.  It is an integrated amp/dac/ streamer for around 1700GBP.  Do you think, in that case, that it is worthwhile to invest in an network ‘s upgrade in that case?

Just a dedicated switch and a not so bad lan cable should be enough.  Or invest in a better amp and steamer first, like supernait with nd5xs....

Could you elloborate as am interested in the steps beyond switch and cables - bridge and isolation...

i will try but i recommend you to see at computer audiophile site or audiostream.

The optical bridge is a lan isolation from noise, the ethernet signal goes in optical fibers and all noise is removed.  You need two fmc converters and optic fiber between then :

switch>fmc converter> optical fibers(2)>fmc converter>streamer ( ndx, nds...)

It costs around 100GBP at amazon site and it improves very significantly the sound.  

But you can improve it with linear ps on these fmc converters, or ifi power 5v for much less cost....

The second isolation from noise is linear ps on nas or unitserve....effective too.

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