network streaming tweaks

Ok so my £1200 Chord Indigo Tuned Aray cable arrived yesterday, so listened to system as is with the Chord C Stream and then replaced it with the Indigo. For reference this is the last length from fibre bridge to Nova.

The result, at best quite subtle, yes more detail, but to me somewhat exagerated at first. Later my thoughts rated it as more texture to everything. It does suggest 100hrs break in so let's see.

An interesting one I think I need to listen more and swap back to the C Stream. But so far feel a bit robbed vs the C stream, but then I've done plenty of big box upgrades and thought it sounded worse.

I really feel the fibre bridge has as crazy articles suggest ditched all the noise. Cannot stress how much people should try this at sub £100 it is one of them try and decide.

For anyone with a AQ Vodka, my Indigo makes that sound worse than my Amazon CAT6 for £7.

So my rating at the moment is now.

#01 (6th) – Adding IFI power supplies (£90) to the fibre bridge = Major drop in noise floor, vivid soundstage;

#02 (5th) – Adding fibre bridge (£75), between switch and Nova = Major improvement in dynamics, wide soundstage, everything got much better;

#03 (2nd) – Upgrading Atom to Nova (£4100) = Allot more emotion and control, brings ease to the presentation (as in effortless);

#04 (9th) - Chord Indigo Aray (£1200) = More life like but subtle, adds a texture to everthing making it more involving to listen to.

#05 (3rd) – A new Cisco 2960 = Much tighter grip/control/timing, made the used switch sound sluggish an “loose” in comparison;

#06 (1st) – Adding a used Cisco 2960 (£100) used = Very noticeable improvement in dynamics and detail;

#07 (4th) – Using Chord C Streams (£50) = Subtle but clear minor veil lifted;

#08 (7th) – Using AQ Vodka (£500) fibre bridge to Nova = A clear step backwards, dynamics lost and heavy bloated bass.

#09 (8th) - Wurth Ferrite Core = Nothing no change whatsoever.

hey guys, i have a question:  i received the audioquest diamond to replace the vodka before my streamer. I will put the vodka between my router and the cisco switch:  in which sens connect the vodka to the router , the arrow in direction to the router or the contrary?  thanks 

French Rooster posted:

hey guys, i have a question:  i received the audioquest diamond to replace the vodka before my streamer. I will put the vodka between my router and the cisco switch:  in which sens connect the vodka to the router , the arrow in direction to the router or the contrary?  thanks 

Well given data flows both from and to the switch from your router ... I guess you need two cables one for each direction!

(And yes I'm joking)

I just had a thought and I haven't bothered to read all 9 pages in this thread, so apologies if this is a rehash. But here's a potential tweak.

I've had the rare occasion at work, to do direct hookup of systems using an ethernet cross-over cable.  1-1.  It's the simplest network topology possible..no routers or switches.  This requires both systems to be on the same network segment (ip address range/netmask).  You would need to remove the dependence on DNS for host resolution.. which may be possible (if it works.. it's code dependent), by simply putting the NAS IP address in the reader's input hostname field.

For an audiophile, this potentially removes the need for a switch (and it's potential noise).

Any takers? Lab experiment?

Eloise posted:
French Rooster posted:

hey guys, i have a question:  i received the audioquest diamond to replace the vodka before my streamer. I will put the vodka between my router and the cisco switch:  in which sens connect the vodka to the router , the arrow in direction to the router or the contrary?  thanks 

Well given data flows both from and to the switch from your router ... I guess you need two cables one for each direction!

(And yes I'm joking)

there are arrows on the plugs, two different directions at the extremities.  You think it will not change anything?

The arrows should point from switch to streamer. I called Chord as on my Indigo no instructions yet they claim allot of effort to choose the right direction.

I must admit I could easily tell with the Chord C Stream as that's just a dot.

Still listening to the Indigo and I must admit I am starting to appreciate it, for me the Chord range (I have tried my old random sky box one, Amazon £5, Supra, AQ Vodka and the C stream) compliments Naim.

Recall Simon saying we are just playing with tone controls or was it tone deaf ; ) I found the AQ made everything sound heavy, the Supra just sucked the life out of the music, but the Chords to me compliment.

I doubt there is any right or wrong way, just what floats your boat or some use better cotton wool buds.

French Rooster posted:

hey guys, i have a question:  i received the audioquest diamond to replace the vodka before my streamer. I will put the vodka between my router and the cisco switch:  in which sens connect the vodka to the router , the arrow in direction to the router or the contrary?  thanks 

FR, I guess the only Instance when the Vodka would be in the music stream is when you are streaming music from the internet - Tidal etc.. in that case the stream will be coming from the internet so the router is the ‘source’ I would assume.

Eloise posted:
French Rooster posted:

hey guys, i have a question:  i received the audioquest diamond to replace the vodka before my streamer. I will put the vodka between my router and the cisco switch:  in which sens connect the vodka to the router , the arrow in direction to the router or the contrary?  thanks 

Well given data flows both from and to the switch from your router ... I guess you need two cables one for each direction!

(And yes I'm joking)

You're actually not joking, at each end one pair of conductors is TX and connects to the other endpoint's RX.  Thus, simultaneously, the signal flows one way down one pair of conductors and the other way down the other pair of conductors - this is what is meant by full duplex operation!  It's just that the two pairs of conductors are held in a single overall jacket (with or without a screen).

i know the right sens of plugging the audioquest vodka from switch to the streamer. But not from router to switch.  Eloise said that ethernet cable communicates in both direction, but why there are 2 different arrows direction on the audioquest plugs?   Anyway i will try both and try if i hear something different.....i guess not but maybe.

Eloise posted:
French Rooster posted:

hey guys, i have a question:  i received the audioquest diamond to replace the vodka before my streamer. I will put the vodka between my router and the cisco switch:  in which sens connect the vodka to the router , the arrow in direction to the router or the contrary?  thanks 

Well given data flows both from and to the switch from your router ... I guess you need two cables one for each direction!

(And yes I'm joking)

You may have been joking, but that is exactly what is inside the ethernet cable on a duplex connection - separate twisted pair cables for each direction. With 10/100Mbps then it is two cables in a balanced twisted pair  in each direction, with 1000Mbps it is two lots of two cables in a balanced twisted pair in each direction. (four conductors in total for each direction).

For older ethernet connections which are half duplex then the 10/100Mbps twisted pair is shared for both directions - each host end of the twisted pair wires tests the wires to see if they are free to use and then sends data. These older half duplex connections require at least hubs for connecting, whilst more modern duplex connections must use switch ports for connecting.

 

French Rooster posted:

i know the right sens of plugging the audioquest vodka from switch to the streamer. But not from router to switch.  Eloise said that ethernet cable communicates in both direction, but why there are 2 different arrows direction on the audioquest plugs?   Anyway i will try both and try if i hear something different.....i guess not but maybe.

If the Vodka is like the Pearl the arrows are intended to reflect the flow of the music. The arrows are on both ends one pointing from the cable to the connector and the other from the connector to the cable. Thus put the end from the connector to the cable in the NAS and the other end in the switch. Likewise the music comes out of the switch into the streamer.

Well that is my interpretation of the arrows pointing in the direction of the music flow. Likewise Chord I expect.

Phil

Obsydian posted:

The arrows should point from switch to streamer. I called Chord as on my Indigo no instructions yet they claim allot of effort to choose the right direction.

I must admit I could easily tell with the Chord C Stream as that's just a dot.

Still listening to the Indigo and I must admit I am starting to appreciate it, for me the Chord range (I have tried my old random sky box one, Amazon £5, Supra, AQ Vodka and the C stream) compliments Naim.

Recall Simon saying we are just playing with tone controls or was it tone deaf ; ) I found the AQ made everything sound heavy, the Supra just sucked the life out of the music, but the Chords to me compliment.

I doubt there is any right or wrong way, just what floats your boat or some use better cotton wool buds.

i have the same impression as you vs the vodka cable: a bit too heavy and edgy.  I received the audioquest diamond today, replaced the vodka on the last section, before my nds:  the sound is more natural, free flowing, nicer.  A very refined ethernet cable this audioquest diamond.

The meicord is also more natural than vodka, but more 2d vs 3d for the diamond, if i may say like that.

Short version.

The Indigo puts serious emotion into the music - expensive but I love it.

Long version.

So a few hours listening (bit of Naim app drama) and a swap back to the C Stream, the Indigo is clearly better, just more musical, dynamic and detailed. Best description is the music is more detailed, grander and textured (air around instruments, vocals lips and breathing)... but complimentary not changing the character just removing more veils.

All listening was at a lowly 18, but that was more to keep a level playing field.

Later cranking up the cable really does excel in all respects in particular gorgeous bass depth (whohoo i now have deep BASS hitting me in the chest) and control. It's like adding a more powerful amp. At these higher volumes that good old sense of PRaT what I loved about Naim really shines, unravelling complex basslines, dismantling vocals and instrument details - but retaining a very dynamic, natural, if not hypnotic dynamic pace. Vocals are simply emotional very realistic, I tend not to reference tracks but Kehlani - Again, wow oh wow so much emotion now, Camila Cabello (I'm not normally a vocals type) but damn so gorgeous, like she is sat in front of me, very moving and the few instruments in these tracks are captivating like I can tell how the guitarist is strumming the strings in subtle detail, each nuance.

Was it value for money, in a Nova system prefer not to say, but yes if you want to squeeze the max from it, I imagine in an NDS type setup it may shine more.

The Indigo will stay put simple because the C stream sounds a bit limp in comparison, at higher volumes is left so far behind it's embarrassing. 

The Indigo also meant I had to pull out my table further as with the Vodka the plugs are huge and bend radii is large. Plus the Naim app plugs on my table prefer a close to wall positioning.

As a final setup change I moved my media converter and ifi ps closer to the Nova and the ifi sharing a spare socket next to the Nova. Prior setup was fibre bridge sat a few meters away and media converters just stacked on top of each other. Reason was my old C stream was 3M the Indigo is 1.5M. Dare I say another subtle improvement in dynamics and detail.

French Rooster posted:
Obsydian posted:

The arrows should point from switch to streamer. I called Chord as on my Indigo no instructions yet they claim allot of effort to choose the right direction.

I must admit I could easily tell with the Chord C Stream as that's just a dot.

Still listening to the Indigo and I must admit I am starting to appreciate it, for me the Chord range (I have tried my old random sky box one, Amazon £5, Supra, AQ Vodka and the C stream) compliments Naim.

Recall Simon saying we are just playing with tone controls or was it tone deaf ; ) I found the AQ made everything sound heavy, the Supra just sucked the life out of the music, but the Chords to me compliment.

I doubt there is any right or wrong way, just what floats your boat or some use better cotton wool buds.

i have the same impression as you vs the vodka cable: a bit too heavy and edgy.  I received the audioquest diamond today, replaced the vodka on the last section, before my nds:  the sound is more natural, free flowing, nicer.  A very refined ethernet cable this audioquest diamond.

The meicord is also more natural than vodka, but more 2d vs 3d for the diamond, if i may say like that.

It sounds like you are  ‘tuning’ your RFI affecting your connected audio components to modify the audio artefacts to suit taste which is fine I guess.. out of interest have you done the AM radio test against your cable when you change its directions? Also is the cable screened earthed at both ends? Curious....

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:
French Rooster posted:
Obsydian posted:

The arrows should point from switch to streamer. I called Chord as on my Indigo no instructions yet they claim allot of effort to choose the right direction.

I must admit I could easily tell with the Chord C Stream as that's just a dot.

Still listening to the Indigo and I must admit I am starting to appreciate it, for me the Chord range (I have tried my old random sky box one, Amazon £5, Supra, AQ Vodka and the C stream) compliments Naim.

Recall Simon saying we are just playing with tone controls or was it tone deaf ; ) I found the AQ made everything sound heavy, the Supra just sucked the life out of the music, but the Chords to me compliment.

I doubt there is any right or wrong way, just what floats your boat or some use better cotton wool buds.

i have the same impression as you vs the vodka cable: a bit too heavy and edgy.  I received the audioquest diamond today, replaced the vodka on the last section, before my nds:  the sound is more natural, free flowing, nicer.  A very refined ethernet cable this audioquest diamond.

The meicord is also more natural than vodka, but more 2d vs 3d for the diamond, if i may say like that.

It sounds like you are  ‘tuning’ your RFI affecting your connected audio components to modify the audio artefacts to suit taste which is fine I guess.. out of interest have you done the AM radio test against your cable when you change its directions? Also is the cable screened earthed at both ends? Curious....

i have not made yet the comparaison on directions on the router / switch section.  Screened earthed i don’t know what it is Simon, sorry.   I will change the direction to test....

French Rooster posted:

i inversed the directions of the vodka lan between the router and switch : a bit better now, more free flowing and open.  i made it 3 times to try to see if there’s some placebo effect or wrong hearing....but there is definitely a right direction.

do a blind test and get someone else to swop it around and let us know how you get on

Obsydian posted:

Short version.

The Indigo puts serious emotion into the music - expensive but I love it.

Long version.

So a few hours listening (bit of Naim app drama) and a swap back to the C Stream, the Indigo is clearly better, just more musical, dynamic and detailed. Best description is the music is more detailed, grander and textured (air around instruments, vocals lips and breathing)... but complimentary not changing the character just removing more veils.

All listening was at a lowly 18, but that was more to keep a level playing field.

Later cranking up the cable really does excel in all respects in particular gorgeous bass depth (whohoo i now have deep BASS hitting me in the chest) and control. It's like adding a more powerful amp. At these higher volumes that good old sense of PRaT what I loved about Naim really shines, unravelling complex basslines, dismantling vocals and instrument details - but retaining a very dynamic, natural, if not hypnotic dynamic pace. Vocals are simply emotional very realistic, I tend not to reference tracks but Kehlani - Again, wow oh wow so much emotion now, Camila Cabello (I'm not normally a vocals type) but damn so gorgeous, like she is sat in front of me, very moving and the few instruments in these tracks are captivating like I can tell how the guitarist is strumming the strings in subtle detail, each nuance.

Was it value for money, in a Nova system prefer not to say, but yes if you want to squeeze the max from it, I imagine in an NDS type setup it may shine more.

The Indigo will stay put simple because the C stream sounds a bit limp in comparison, at higher volumes is left so far behind it's embarrassing. 

The Indigo also meant I had to pull out my table further as with the Vodka the plugs are huge and bend radii is large. Plus the Naim app plugs on my table prefer a close to wall positioning.

As a final setup change I moved my media converter and ifi ps closer to the Nova and the ifi sharing a spare socket next to the Nova. Prior setup was fibre bridge sat a few meters away and media converters just stacked on top of each other. Reason was my old C stream was 3M the Indigo is 1.5M. Dare I say another subtle improvement in dynamics and detail.

Yes the Chord Indigo aray streaming cable is outstanding sounding ! Shocking how a Ethernet cable makes such a difference. Congrats on getting it! 

 

 

MUSICFAN51 - thanks I was very sceptical and put you In The Looney bunch, whuch I have now joined ; )

Really has me wondering what the Music version can do, Indingon is amazing. I stillness the fibre bridge with ifi ps higher but dare I say the is less but so much more Err organic.

GARYI - Got to hear it to believe it I guess.

It's funny really if Naim came out with such a cable, the upgrade brigade would be all over it, but I guess the beanies have Naim pushing the Vertere range which is also due watering.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

If screened the connectors will most likely have metal cases, or parts of the cases being metallic so the case makes contact with the edge of the port socket. If at both ends the screen is probably connected to both ends which you confirm with a multimeter.

i don’t know why the less expensive meicord opal is better sounding than the vodka on the router -switch section, but it is a bit more open, free flowing and dynamic.  I found the better direction plugging the vodka between router and switch, but i still prefer the meicord.

Yes the vodka have metal case on the plugs, perhaps my router » doesn’t like it ».   But i have no multimeter and no technical knowledge, just my ears to confirm which one i prefer.

Mercky posted:
French Rooster posted:

i inversed the directions of the vodka lan between the router and switch : a bit better now, more free flowing and open.  i made it 3 times to try to see if there’s some placebo effect or wrong hearing....but there is definitely a right direction.

do a blind test and get someone else to swop it around and let us know how you get on

i believe audioquest knows his job . the arrows/ directions on the plugs are not for decoration.

The direction i choose sounds just a little better, i don’t need more tests....  I prefer to concentrate now on choosing the vodka vs the opal on that section, and feel, for now, that i prefer the opal....

Listening over for the day, the Indigo is a hit, though annoyingly everyone wants to now sing !!!

Also did some back to back vs USB FLAC and Tidal with the Indigo is now clearly better, more textured and organic - bass again (deep, taut and in your chest) alarming a cable albeit expensive can do this.

Obsydian posted:

MUSICFAN51 - thanks I was very sceptical and put you In The Looney bunch, whuch I have now joined ; )

Really has me wondering what the Music version can do, Indingon is amazing. I stillness the fibre bridge with ifi ps higher but dare I say the is less but so much more Err organic.

GARYI - Got to hear it to believe it I guess.

It's funny really if Naim came out with such a cable, the upgrade brigade would be all over it, but I guess the beanies have Naim pushing the Vertere range which is also due watering.

I have heard the ChordMusic Ethernet and it is crazy good !  Best not to hear it, you will want it ! 

 

Obsydian posted:

Listening over for the day, the Indigo is a hit, though annoyingly everyone wants to now sing !!!

Also did some back to back vs USB FLAC and Tidal with the Indigo is now clearly better, more textured and organic - bass again (deep, taut and in your chest) alarming a cable albeit expensive can do this.

The Chord Indigo aray Ethernet is one heckuva streaming cable !  So much more musical ! 

Obsydian posted:

Ok so my £1200 Chord Indigo Tuned Aray cable arrived yesterday, so listened to system as is with the Chord C Stream and then replaced it with the Indigo. For reference this is the last length from fibre bridge to Nova.

The result, at best quite subtle, yes more detail, but to me somewhat exagerated at first. Later my thoughts rated it as more texture to everything. It does suggest 100hrs break in so let's see.

 

Very interesting.

Recently tried a few 'streaming cables' with my Nova.

The <£50 Chord C stream was an instant revelation - incredible value for money equivalent to many hundreds of pounds upgrade in other areas I feel for modest outlay.

Much more detail, tighter base, better soundstage.

Audioquest Pearl seemed a resonable cheaper option but did not have the impact of the C Stream.

Despite repeated tests of AQ Cinnamon it just didn;t work for me - in some ways it sounded cleaner/slower with more time/space between notes but ultimately seemed 'digital' and uninspiring for most music.  Suspect this is a question of synergy and in the right system it might beat the C stream.

Your thoughts on Indigo vs C stream are where I find it interesting - I tried Chord Epic - much deeper bass, everything seemed richer but almost overblown/exaggereated with some things - for many things C stream was the easier listen but I kept going back to the Epic thinking I was missing something.

With the Epic I heard subtle piano riffs I'd never really heard as clearly with the C Stream on a Nina Simone track, and on other music I was particularly impressed with how it improved the timbre of instruments especially piano where notes seemed to just show so much more richness and subtle harmonics entirely missing with cheaper cables.

In the end plumped for C stream - simply as best bang for buck  - Epic was good but I may want better!  Don't mind accepting a hit if I replace C stream but with Epic would need to demo better cables first as it's a different proposition at the price.

MUSICFAN51 - Too late the Music version is calling ; )

ALLEYCAT - Damn shame my local dealers stocked zero demo cables for Chord top end ethernet, the AQ Vodka and others from AQ where easily availble and I tested the Vodka.

These cables are not cheap and I'd guess the mark up is more than the circa 50% on boxes, so shame they don't hold more home demo stock.

I also found the same as you but with the Vodka.

james n posted:

Is the Nova a stop gap to something else. £3800 for a Chord Music streaming cable seems a tad excessive just to listen to Tidal ?

Just curious.

That is tge new plan, but the I got back into Naim to stick with a Muso and vowed only one box streamer with Tidal.

Recall last time 15yrs ago I said a Midi HiFi system, about 5 yrs later and 8 or so boxes and many £10k's the sold It all as too consuming time wise.

JAMES N - well I paid circa £2k to go from an Atoms to Nova and the Indigo and fibre bridge did FAR more.

The thing is, once you've heard ChordMusic - in any guise - in your system, it really is incredibly difficult to forget it.  It's not really the equivalent of a "black box upgrade" as it does things that black boxes, at least the one's I'm familiar with, simply don't do.

Huge posted:

Indigo:                £4200 streamer, £1200 Ethernet cable.....    OK, if that works for you.....  But interesting priorities!

Chord Music:     £4200 streamer, £3800 Ethernet cable.....    

Indeed... Admittedly I haven't listed to a £3,800 Ethernet cable, but I would be most surprised if there weren't better upgrade paths from the Nova... Are you serious -- you bought a £3,8000 Ethernet cable for a Nova?! Or maybe just a bit of attention seeking? 

Timo posted:
Huge posted:

Indigo:                £4200 streamer, £1200 Ethernet cable.....    OK, if that works for you.....  But interesting priorities!

Chord Music:     £4200 streamer, £3800 Ethernet cable.....    

Indeed... Admittedly I haven't listed to a £3,800 Ethernet cable, but I would be most surprised if there weren't better upgrade paths from the Nova... Are you serious -- you bought a £3,8000 Ethernet cable for a Nova?! Or maybe just a bit of attention seeking? 

Cheapskates! At this level, a full loom is essential, so call it another £8000 for speaker cables.

I'm in this camp and so are all the incredibly clever research and tech people I work with. 

"Bits are bits; Ethernet transports error-checked IP packets from one point to another. There’s no such thing as a good bit or bad bit or “better-sounding” bit — you either receive the packet of data (the FLAC stream in this case), or you don’t."

Add Reply

Likes (0)
×
×
×
×