New Uniti range gets Roon Ready update

jobseeker posted:
bencrosby posted:

One more thing...

You can see TIDAL Masters in the Roon UI now...

I don't know how Roon is passing MQA to the Atom, this is what shows... 

MQA

Further exploring to do.

Roon is showing you the details of the source file, ie MQA at the shown quality. However, in this set-up, the MQA part is not being decoded/rendered so the Nova is playing it as best it can. At this point, Roon does no processing of MQA, it can simply pass on the data stream unmolested. The Naim can't decode MQA so nothing is happening with MQA there either.

Roon is telling porkies, MQA is not lossless 

jobseeker posted:
Sloop John B posted:

If you choose Tidal in Roon and select “masters” these are all the MQA material, hence 24bit. 

0640ED99-4FD6-4331-AB4C-2B695DE0F6F8

 

.sjb

I don’t think Roon or Tidal come close to listing all the MQA files by searching that way unfortunately. 

Jobseeker, what other way is there to come by a complete listing? And is there some way of buying MQA downloads, as opposed to streaming them?

I'm curious why you would ask Roon to software repackage FLAC to DSD ? Surely there would be no difference to the Nova in the bitstream it gets, and in fact, you're stressing your network link quite a bit by sending DSD128 as opposed to the 16/44 FLAC file....

Not judging, just trying to understand.

Cheers

My network is having no problems so far!

I did go back and have another listen, you had me wondering whether the effort was indeed worth the reward. Roon is not cheap when all said and done and I’m all about the pounds and pence being a Yorkshireman an all.

Listening  back and forth between no upscaling to dsd128 at the click of a button I most definitely noted a “night/day” difference, not a golden ears or placebo effect difference. Less of the high frequencies, less sharp sounding. It sounds more like vinyl. Some may not go for that but it is my personal preference.

Best regards

Leon

Roon is quite a clever beast, even leaving aside the metadata side of it. I took out a lifetime subscription early on with a discount code after being a Beta tester while it was being developed as a Meridian Sooloos project. I certainly have no regrets. I don't do any transcoding, convolution, room correction etc through it, but there are plenty who wouldn't be without those. More enhancements to come too, I'm sure.

Leon Wadsworth posted:

What do people think of the upscaling? fCD rip to DSD128 sounds nice!


Think i'm hooked! Next purchase i7 Nuc!

Interesting observation - a quick test did indeed make a track sound more open and less harsh, that's from 96/24 FLAC,  though not sure I'd say night and day.

Perhaps RAAT works better with some formats than others.

Must say however that most stuff I've tried through ROON does sound very good, just not had long enough to compare  local playback over USB or from a NAS.

Cheer Leon - I only have a few dozen mostly HD titles currently playable until I resurrect my old desktop to put all the old ripped CDs onto a USB device or NAS - could be really handy if it make a big difference with CD quality items.

Since purchasing HD from Qobuz I'm reluctant to buy titles in CD quality now - even if the difference isn't always mind blowing sonically I'm trying to limit to buying newer stuff in HD where possible.  Shame Roon won't incorporate Qobuz as it might offer a lot for CD quality streaming playback which I'd do by Chromecasting currently though lack of album art (unless I could have the display off during playback) and a ready gapless playback solution on my devices are negatives for using the streamer functionality.  So many options, too little time to compare all available playback possibilities....

magagne posted:
Alley Cat posted:

... Shame Roon won't incorporate Qobuz

I think it's more Qobuz who don't want to be part of it beside Tidal side by side.

I can't see why to be honest, there will always be competitors but I'd assume any streaming service would be pushing for market presence wherever they could?

It's not just about software. The new Uniti series digital platform is significantly more capable than the older versions. This is a natural progression that occurrs with all technology. What you are asking for is the equivalent of wanting to run the latest operating system on a 10 year old computer.

As a beta tester I know that Naim go to great lengths to make new software compatible with legacy products and indeed many new features have been added - just not ones like Roon which are more resource intensive. It's not unknown for new software releases that work perfectly on the new series to be held up until they also work on the legacy products.

The bottom line is that your product does everything it did when you chose it and probably more but some hardware upgrades just aren't feasible.

 

I for one think Naim have even made a mistake by making the app span both legacy and new uniti products.

I have a 7 year old UniQute and really don't expect it to be compatible with a 2017 nova. I'd prefer if I buy a nova that it would be in no way hobbled in order to keep multiroom with my qute.

.sjb

 

My take is different to yours John. Many people will have one or more in a mix of new Uniti, musos and classic streamers. Controlling some by a different app would be a real pain.

Also I don't think the app is hobbling the Nova. Getting multiroom to work across every mix is certainly proving a challenge, but these are firmware issues not the app. Anyway on multiroom across products Naim are very nearly there now.

best

David

Pev posted:

It's not just about software. The new Uniti series digital platform is significantly more capable than the older versions. This is a natural progression that occurrs with all technology. What you are asking for is the equivalent of wanting to run the latest operating system on a 10 year old computer.

As a beta tester I know that Naim go to great lengths to make new software compatible with legacy products and indeed many new features have been added - just not ones like Roon which are more resource intensive. It's not unknown for new software releases that work perfectly on the new series to be held up until they also work on the legacy products.

The bottom line is that your product does everything it did when you chose it and probably more but some hardware upgrades just aren't feasible.

 

Hi PEV, You are mistaken....   
Thing is that my Naim NAC is less than two years old and when I bought it the statement was that regular updates would be implemented. Only seen Tidal after that and no other improvements were provided at all. The interface on Android devices remains buggy and there are some elements that should have been solved long ago (like a playlist maximum of max. 500 songs; how 90s can we be?). This in contrast to my 10 years old Sonos system that still gets various updates (although their latest interface change was horrible).
And as for Roon: the required capacity should be at the server side, not at the player. The player should just play what is offered. I mean my 10 year old Sonos system is playing from Roon! So why not Naim? Its jusy crazy. But I heard that Sonos was considering high res players. That should solve everything...

magagne posted:
Alley Cat posted:

... Shame Roon won't incorporate Qobuz

I think it's more Qobuz who don't want to be part of it beside Tidal side by side.

So it would seem sadly - I suggested integration to the Roon team but they replied saying Qobuz are currently not interested in this - a real shame.  I can understand all the streaming players in the market wanting to do well, but if Roon are not directly selling streaming services you'd think this would only do more to get Qobuz noticed.

Gazza posted:

Just in case the Naim uniti progress update is missed by a Roon fans. End of October will see a new firmware update for Atom,Star and Nova for Roon ready, zero interest to me, but I know some have been wanting this.....

Coming to the end of my trial a few days before Christmas, I decided to go for a 12 month subscription.

Within minutes of doing so I bowled over a glass of wine which looked like a tsunami as it flowed over my Roon core - a 2015 MacBook Pro.

Hurriedly unplugged all connected devices, shook it around like a lunatic and stuck it in a plastic box with some desiccants - could not open the case as I did not have the appropriate pentalobe screwdriver - got one from Amazon on Christmas Eve.  As I took the MBP out of the box it restarted spontaneously but could not log in as presumably keyboard producing incorrect characters for the password.  When I eventually opened it I could no longer make it start up.  Some copper salts on one part of the logic board resistant to some isopropyl alcohol.  In all honesty it looks ok with the back case off just suspect the keyboard is knackered or there is damage to the hidden side of the logic board.

Dismantling is not something I'm keen on currently so hope to extract the SSD but have had to order a special caddy to read it.

I emailed Roon quite rapidly and they were fantastic and refunded my purchase without any quibbles - speaks volumes - I'll sign up again once I get something suitable to use as the Core server.

jon h posted:

I'd like to implement Roon. But I'm not getting into this "pile of boxes and spaghetti" nonsense that people are using today. 

So I will have to wait for naim to do something "new platform" on the separates range. 

...”boxes and spaghetti”! Very appropriate, but I admit here that I recently sold my lovely ND5XS and and entered this spaghetti world. Why?

It was so inconvenient to stream to the ND5XS using Roon because it was not able to be seen as a Roon Endpoint. I was having to feed it via SPDIF from a Mac mini Roon server and, apart from reputed noisy digital feed from such computers, the Mac was a confounded nuisance because of the MacOS propensity to stop action to ask questions about updates, etc,. Etc., each time requiring remote access from another iMac to get it going again.  The Mac mini is now replaced by a SonicTransporter (preset with Roon Server and no other computer software or systems) and the funds from the ND5XS paid for a Sonore microRendu (Roon endpoint attached to Ethernet network outputting very clean USB stream) plus a Chord 2Qute DAC.

i am pleased with the Improved Roon experience (versus having the clunky previous setup with the ND5XS) as well as the excellent sound from the new DAC. 

This experience demonstrated that while the ND5XS has superb capability to clean up gritty incoming digital streams (and sounded pretty good) the lack of support for Roon saw it discarded in favour of spaghetti ‘n boxes!

PS: I do miss the radio implementation on the ND5XS. This is definitely work-in-progress for Roon.

PPS: I still have a MuSo on my network and Roon detects it as an Airplay device, rather than a Roon Endpoint. On the MuSo, the improved streaming performance from Roon implementation versus Airplay would not be audible (to me at least). By way of explanation, Airplay protocol converts any stream to 48Mhz while the Roon (RAAT) protocol allows higher rate digital streams to flow to the MuSo or whatever Roon Endpoint you have. 

Hi @Alley Cat I can recommend an Intel NUC running ROCK, which is Roon dedicated optimized environment for the Roon Core. You just get your NUC, (the bare NUC, RAM & SSD boards, which be bought on Amazon), boot from a USB Key, and that’s it. It is a platform with a single management page to start/stop the Core. All other OS updates/changes are managed by Roon. It just sits there, next to the NAS on your network and runs, serves up the library to your Endpoints, etc. ROCK can also support attached USB disks to your Core, you can use your existing NAS as backup.

The other approach is a single server approach, there is a company, that has built a small green computer, that runs Roon Core and has internal HDD storage.

Hope the MacBook comes back to life. Simon

 

simes_pep posted:

Hi @Alley Cat I can recommend an Intel NUC running ROCK, which is Roon dedicated optimized environment for the Roon Core. You just get your NUC, (the bare NUC, RAM & SSD boards, which be bought on Amazon), boot from a USB Key, and that’s it. It is a platform with a single management page to start/stop the Core. All other OS updates/changes are managed by Roon. It just sits there, next to the NAS on your network and runs, serves up the library to your Endpoints, etc. ROCK can also support attached USB disks to your Core, you can use your existing NAS as backup.

The other approach is a single server approach, there is a company, that has built a small green computer, that runs Roon Core and has internal HDD storage.

Hope the MacBook comes back to life. Simon

 

Many thanks Simon - I think the Macbook has had it to be honest, but we'll see...

An Intel Nuc is an option I was not aware of, and may be worth considering, though I have an older Mac Mini which may do the shop once I find it!

fordy posted:

I spilled wine on a MacBook Air once and my wife spilled water on a different MBA once too. Both were brought back to life using a 3rd party repair service.

Thank you for making feel much better - I'm not the only Mac owner who's tipped a drink on a computer!!!

Was the 3rd party service in the UK by any chance?

I've already extracted the SSD and that's ok so have cloned it, in case it's on the way out.  The trouble with Apple stuff in recent years is that it's a nightmare to disassemble without appropriate tools (perhaps laptops in general), but any chance of mopping the liquid from the inside quickly were scuppered.  I'm toying with dismantling the MBP myself and getting some parts from the US to try to fix it.

I've just got a new monitor from Amazon to use with an older Mini, as my old Samsung monitor dims the display after a second or two - there are some fixes on the internet for that but I really don't have the time and patience these days so a replacement, even if temporary that can be repurposed later, should fit the bill.

 

At the end for the day you have to remember that Roon ain't going to improve the sound quality of your hifi. It's very nice playback software with some great features such as 64 bit parametric eq but it's not going to sound any different or better than iTunes for example when playing cd rips bit perfect.

I tried Roon but decided to stick with iTunes and apple remote app for complete home and mobile integration. This way when my macbook source requires os x updates everything continues to work. Completing os x updates can potentially stop roon and other third party software from working properly.

mackb3 posted:
Sloop John B posted:

Great news, Roon and Naim will be a great match. 

 

.sjb

John, in your Biography part of your system lists (to HQP). What is HQP?

Thanks...

I must update that, have a few newer pieces in the loop.

HQPlayer is a stand alone audio player that runs on a PC that can upsample 16/44 music files. It has various dither and noise shaping filters. It is an option in Roon to use HQplayers upsampling and Roon's GUI.

Basically (as I understand it) all DACs (except NOS DACs) do this type of upsampling. Doing it with HQPlayer has 2 advantages

  1. It is a heavy processing event and to do it on a PC takes some of pressure off the DAC and so it may sound better.
  2. There are a myriad of linear phase and minimum phase filters to choose from and there are a lot of people out there who think that some of these filters sound better than the ones in their DAC. It makes sense that it will give more bang per buck with cheaper DACs but I constantly surprised by the amount of people with Chord DAVE that use it.(interestingly chord have bought out a Blu II upsampler and if you were to search Signal's website for it you will see them mentioning using it between a Melco and DAVE. HQPlayer works similarly - there is a series of filters called xtr and these apparently have similar range of taps as the Blu II / DAVE.

 

There is a free download trial where it works for 30 minutes at a time. I don't think I'm doing it justice,

However if you have Roon, it also now upsamples so you could try this out first and if you liked the effect could trial HQPlayer.

 

Currently I have an ultraRendu/ LPS1 into a Holo Spring DAC (which is a NOS - non over (up) sampling) and I upsample to DSD 256 in Roon and I have not had better sound ever (I used to own a CD555).

I am getting an updated PC in order to have enough grunt to run HQPlayer to 512DSD to my Holo Spring DAC.

 

clear as mud?

 

.sjb

 

Thanks John, I thought that might be the case but next to the Pi seemed unusual. I'm a newbie learning about Roon. Interesting interface and DAC you have and seems to be working well in your system. I'm still trying to sort out Roon with my rig. The bridge option seems to have passed. I run the TV through the NDX and need to keep that option. I suppose I could do the UltraRedu/PS as the Roon endpoint and add a USB/SPDIF converter into the NDAC or get a USB/SPDIF DAC. I've got plenty of inputs on the NAC282.

The HQPlayer integration maybe at a later date. Options for Roon Core, NUC, soup up my  i5 MacMini, sonic Transporter i5 from small green computer.

Mack

×
×
×
×