OK I'm going to buy a Raspberry Pi 3

DavidDever posted:

For those who are using Roon and are looking to add a RAAT endpoint, I highly recommend the RPi3 + HifiBerry DAC+ Pro combo with the metal case; this works exceptionally well with DAC-only Naim (and other) products, such as the original Supernait.

You can roll your own Micro-USB power supply to suit; the Roon 1.2.2 image can be downloaded from the HifiBerry site.

Sorry for being dense, but then do you also need a 'Roon server?'  From what I've read, neither my QNAP or Synology nas is likely powerful enough to serve Roon.

You're not being dense. You do also need a Roon server, usally a PC/mac/linux box, but most of us have one of these.

Some folks have got Roon server running on QNAP and Synology NAS, but as you surmise they must have a certain horsepower.

The beauty of the server running on the PC/mac/linux is that there are no limitations due to hardware wheezing asthmatically under the pressure of suddenly being asked to decode MQA or do some upsampling or transcoding to DSD etc. A huge element of future proofing in a quickly changing world.

.sjb

 

Reading this has inspired me to purchase a PI-DAC+ board from IQ Audio for an office system. I already had a spare quad core Pi so it wasn't a huge investment. I burned a copy of Volumio and was up and running in a few minutes. I do have a reasonable knowledge of Linux though which helps as the music is all stored as wav and dsf files on an Intel Atom based Ubuntu box. For minimal outlay the sound quality through a rebuilt Quad 405-2 is excellent.

Chris Shorter posted:
Sloop John B posted:

I have on order an allo sparky,  where the USB bus is separate. 

It is supported by dietpi so hopefully will be as easy to setup as the Pi. 

I have read that the Pi3 has better USB out performance even though the architecture doesn't seem to have changed. 

 

,SJB 

SJB

I've not heard of the Sparky before but it will be a great solution if it fixes the usb "problem " without losing alny of the resources and support available for the Pi. I'll be interested to hear how you get on!

 

chris

Well the allo sparky came yesterday and was quite simple to set up with dietpi, exactly the same steps as with the Raspberry Pi. 

Roon bridge works seamlessly and my first impressions are the sound quality is improved, but how much of this is expectation bias is hard to know. 

I'm having some issues with HQPLAYER in that it doesn't  hold connection via USB 2 and there seems to be some clicking at resolutions above 192 with USB 3, but I had other issues with the Pi3 and HQPLAYER where speakers were being inverted at high upsampling rates with certain filters so I don't think the allo sparky is any way at fault. 

Certainly another option in this exciting spectrum of SBCs. 

 

.sjb

Sloop John B posted:
Well the allo sparky came yesterday and was quite simple to set up with dietpi, exactly the same steps as with the Raspberry Pi. 

Roon bridge works seamlessly and my first impressions are the sound quality is improved, but how much of this is expectation bias is hard to know. 

I'm having some issues with HQPLAYER in that it doesn't  hold connection via USB 2 and there seems to be some clicking at resolutions above 192 with USB 3, but I had other issues with the Pi3 and HQPLAYER where speakers were being inverted at high upsampling rates with certain filters so I don't think the allo sparky is any way at fault. 

Certainly another option in this exciting spectrum of SBCs. 

 

.sjb

SJB

Thank you for the update, I've just ordered one too and one of the new HiFiBerry DIGI+ PRO boards to see whether it's a worthwhile upgrade on the non-PRO version. I'll probably stick with PiCorePlayer as I like the interface provided by LMS and IPeng.

Chris

t@rmac posted:

Installed runeaudio  on my Pi3  , the sound is very good  ( as render with minimserver  running on Nas)  , connected to the usb of the dacV1

What is the difference for a Raspian system  (minimserver +  upmpdcli  )  ?

I do not know runeaudio but it seems to come with, among others, a MPD client. This suggests that it might rely on MPD as a player just as upmpdcli. Having MinimServer running on the Pi3 and accessing local data has of course the advantage that very little amounts of data have to be transfered over the LAN. Thus, the Pi3 does not need to be wired. But, apart from that and assuming that the data exchange between your NAS and the Pi3 works, I would not expect big differences between the two systems. It is possible that runeaudio has been optimized for audio playback and I certainly would not install a full Raspbian (with X, desktop manager, etc.) when setting up an audio server.  

Iconoclast posted:

Unless:

a) you plan on using it in non audio applications as well

b) the DIY aspect

c) the price

I fail to see the interest in the Raspberry Pi when you can pick up a mint second hand SB Touch for less than $300. 

One question is, is what gives a sound quality that matches or beats the top level rendering solutions able to do justice to reasonably high end, high resolution music replay systems? Raspberry Pi might offer some chance (or not), Which is where people's experimentation is of interest, wheras I'm not aware of any suggestion that the Squeezebox passes muster? Or is there evidence that it does?

t@rmac posted:

thank you , I'm testing my two system

1) Rasp  with MPD  + Minimserver

2) Futro ( Thin client )  with Daphile + Logitech media server

Keep in touch

I'm looking forward to read your findings! If you install MinimServer on the Pi it makes sense to also install a UPnP renderer on the same machine. This allows you to take advantage of the flexibility of MinimServer and to control replay with a UPnP (or OpenHome) control point like Linn Kazoo or BubbleUPnP. These are quite mature applications.

You can also run MPD alone and control replay with any MPD client, e.g., on a mobile device. But, in contrast to MinimServer, MPD and MPD clients do not support customizable tags and are, as many UPnP server included the ones supported by Naim in their servers, not suitable for classical music, in my opinion.

Iconoclast posted:

Unless:

a) you plan on using it in non audio applications as well

b) the DIY aspect

c) the price

I fail to see the interest in the Raspberry Pi when you can pick up a mint second hand SB Touch for less than $300. 

I do not know the Logitech server and control software but, apart from the reasons you have pointed out, I think that a motivation for installing MinimServer and a UPnP renderer on a small device like the RPi is to be able to control replay with relatively mature applications (BubbleUPnP, Linn Kazoo, etc.) while at the same time being able to index and browse a music collection according to one's own needs. As far as I know, MinimServer is the only UPnP server that allows one to select user specific indexes (for instance for composer, work, conductor, ensemble, era, etc.) and that supports highly customizable browsing. I might be wrong, of course.

nbpf posted:
Iconoclast posted:

Unless:

a) you plan on using it in non audio applications as well

b) the DIY aspect

c) the price

I fail to see the interest in the Raspberry Pi when you can pick up a mint second hand SB Touch for less than $300. 

I do not know the Logitech server and control software but, apart from the reasons you have pointed out, I think that a motivation for installing MinimServer and a UPnP renderer on a small device like the RPi is to be able to control replay with relatively mature applications (BubbleUPnP, Linn Kazoo, etc.) while at the same time being able to index and browse a music collection according to one's own needs. As far as I know, MinimServer is the only UPnP server that allows one to select user specific indexes (for instance for composer, work, conductor, ensemble, era, etc.) and that supports highly customizable browsing. I might be wrong, of course.

Logitech Media Server should be all you need. It's a very well designed bit of software.

If not Roon also works with the Touch.

To me the only reason to move away from the Touch would be for better sound quality, but for that you'll need to spend considerably more.

Innocent Bystander posted:
Iconoclast posted:

Unless:

a) you plan on using it in non audio applications as well

b) the DIY aspect

c) the price

I fail to see the interest in the Raspberry Pi when you can pick up a mint second hand SB Touch for less than $300. 

One question is, is what gives a sound quality that matches or beats the top level rendering solutions able to do justice to reasonably high end, high resolution music replay systems? Raspberry Pi might offer some chance (or not), Which is where people's experimentation is of interest, wheras I'm not aware of any suggestion that the Squeezebox passes muster? Or is there evidence that it does?

I owned an SOtM sMS-200 for a few weeks and compared to the Touch. It had slightly better resolution but the trade off was that it also sounded thinner in the upper midrange. I could have invested further in a better PSU but decided to sell it instead. I found the Touch more user friendly and was still using it (synced) to control the sMS-200.

I will eventually move away from the Touch but I doubt very much it will be towards a Raspberry. I might eventually put one together just for fun but will most likely sell/give it to a friend afterwards. 

Iconoclast posted:
Innocent Bystander posted:
Iconoclast posted:

Unless:

a) you plan on using it in non audio applications as well

b) the DIY aspect

c) the price

I fail to see the interest in the Raspberry Pi when you can pick up a mint second hand SB Touch for less than $300. 

One question is, is what gives a sound quality that matches or beats the top level rendering solutions able to do justice to reasonably high end, high resolution music replay systems? Raspberry Pi might offer some chance (or not), Which is where people's experimentation is of interest, wheras I'm not aware of any suggestion that the Squeezebox passes muster? Or is there evidence that it does?

I owned an SOtM sMS-200 for a few weeks and compared to the Touch. It had slightly better resolution but the trade off was that it also sounded thinner in the upper midrange. I could have invested further in a better PSU but decided to sell it instead. I found the Touch more user friendly and was still using it (synced) to control the sMS-200.

I will eventually move away from the Touch but I doubt very much it will be towards a Raspberry. I might eventually put one together just for fun but will most likely sell/give it to a friend afterwards. 

Well, I use optimised Audirvana on a dedicated MacMini that is also my music store, and I know that, as well as being widely reported as one of, if not the, best computer-based renderers, its sound quality is very similar indeed to the well renowned Melco. I would prefer a better library tool, putting up with Audiv because of its sound quality, but it doesn't justify the cost of ditching Audiv/MM for Melco et al.  I am therefore interested in alternative possible solutions if they can achieve the same SQ with better library functions, hence my own following of this thread, ditto the microRendu one ("Hugo of streaming").

t@rmac posted:

thank you , I'm testing my two system

1) Rasp  with MPD  + Minimserver

2) Futro ( Thin client )  with Daphile + Logitech media server

Keep in touch

 

 

 

After  1 week of testing  :

The Futro ( thin client )  won   ,  with same volumio  software installed (MPD)  and minimserver via Nas  , raspberry  will be used near the tv as mediacenter   

 

ps.    dac-V1 + Nap 200

t@rmac posted:
t@rmac posted:

thank you , I'm testing my two system

1) Rasp  with MPD  + Minimserver

2) Futro ( Thin client )  with Daphile + Logitech media server

...

After  1 week of testing  :

The Futro ( thin client )  won   ,  with same volumio  software installed (MPD)  and minimserver via Nas  , raspberry  will be used near the tv as mediacenter   

ps.    dac-V1 + Nap 200

Interesting, thanks! Which Futro model have you actually compared to the RPi?

For completeness I have to report that I am now back to Raspberry Pi3 from Sparky as I was having issues that initially I thought were with HQP but turned out to be USB output. A kernel update went 99% of the way to resolving this for me but the 1% is enough to make me go back. (I'm not sure if this is just an issue with dietpi and allo sparky.

if you search "sparky kernel USB HQP" a thread in the Roon forum should come out near or at the top with further details.

 

.sjb

Sloop John B posted:

For completeness I have to report that I am now back to Raspberry Pi3 from Sparky as I was having issues that initially I thought were with HQP but turned out to be USB output. A kernel update went 99% of the way to resolving this for me but the 1% is enough to make me go back. (I'm not sure if this is just an issue with dietpi and allo sparky.

if you search "sparky kernel USB HQP" a thread in the Roon forum should come out near or at the top with further details.

 

.sjb

SJB

I'm sorry to hear about your difficulties with the Roon implementation on the Sparky.

I've been using the Sparky and DietPi for about a week but with Squeezelite as the player. I have also encountered something rather strange in the installation.

The autostart at boot for Squeezelite didn't work. I could see that it did start but it appeared that something caused it to be killed later in the boot process. If I restarted the Squeezelite service manually there were no glitches and the player worked entirely reliably. I tried a number of things to try and resolve the boot issue but more or less became reconciled to manually starting it after each power off.

A few days later, I became a bit irritated by the appearance of the USB cable - it was a rather stiff Audioquest model and needed a half twist between the Sparky and MUTEC and it was sticking up in the air. I found the cable ran better if I used the USB3 socket in the Sparky rather than one of the USB2 sockets that I had been using. And.....low and behold..... the problem at boot disappeared! Just how weird is that! I don't think the DietPi installations are quite as fool-proof as Max2Play or PiCorePlayer, for example.

I'm finding the sound through the MUTEC and NDAC to be really excellent. For now at least, it's my preferred player.

I have also been playing with one of the new HiFiBerry DIGI+ PRO boards. I noticed that there wasn't much difference between the DIGI direct to the NDAC and through the MUTEC, so HiFiBerry have probably done a good job with the new clocks. Through the MUTEC, the PRO and non-PRO versions sound pretty similar to me.

For me, the Sparky just beats the DIGI+'s in having a little more life and clarity. A bit more "sparkle" I might say!

Chris

 

Chris Shorter posted:
nbpf posted:

Here a comparisong between Pi3 and Odroid-C2 as USB streamers with some suggestions for Pi3 settings: http://archimago.blogspot.de/2...i-3-as-usb.html#more

Interesting. That's me shot down in flames then!

Not necessarily. I understand that the blogger/experimentor is measuring the analogue signal downstream the TEAC  DAC. Thus, it is conceivable that differences between Pi3 and Odroid have been filtered out by the DAC. This conjecture seems to be supported (or, at least, non contradicted) by the observation that similar results are obtained also for the Surface 3. Thus, perhaps the measurements are not very significant. Anyway, nice to see that at least some comparisons are done for these devices. Best, nbpf  

I try to read forums but do not know what to do to use laptop - Pi - DAC-V1 and to stream tidal from internet or play JRiver music from laptop hard drive via Pi to DAC-V1. I installed PiCorePlayer on SD card and placed it in Pi. Cables are connected.

Do I have to install DAC-V1 drivers on Pi SD card?
Which other software or settings are needed on Pi and Windows10? I already made modification that NBPF / archimago advised above. 

Thanks
Tuomo

Tuomo posted:

I try to read forums but do not know what to do to use laptop - Pi - DAC-V1 and to stream tidal from internet or play JRiver music from laptop hard drive via Pi to DAC-V1. I installed PiCorePlayer on SD card and placed it in Pi. Cables are connected.

Do I have to install DAC-V1 drivers on Pi SD card?
Which other software or settings are needed on Pi and Windows10? I already made modification that NBPF / archimago advised above. 

Thanks
Tuomo

Hi Tuomo

There are many ways you could do this - what follows is only one way.

If you are going to use PiCorePlayer as a player, you need to have the Logitech Media Server (LMS) installed and running somewhere on your network. The obvious place for this in your case is on your laptop with your music. So, step one is to download and install the Windows version of LMS from Logitech's website (it's free). Step 2 to tell LMS the location of your music library and it will scan and index it.

Next, start your Pi - plugged in to the network and the Naim V1 connect by USB and switched on. When the Pi has booted, you need to find the IP address your router has allocated it - the IOS app Net Analyzer is an easy way to do this. Put the IP address in any browser on your network and the PiCorePlayer web-interface will come up. You need to change the output device to USB and put the details for the Naim V1 in the USB ALSA settings - this is the most tricky bit of the whole procedure. No drivers are required but you'll just get silence if the settings aren't correct.

You can now control the PiCorePlayer, either from the LMS web-interface or an app on an IOS or Android device.

To stream Tidal, you need to install the Tidal plugin to the LMS server - you'll find a huge list of available plug-ins on the plug-ins page in the set-up.

Good luck!

Chris

Thank you Chris,

I followed your instructions and I was able to set up PiCorePlayer somehow. I added a ickStream plug-in for Tidal and tried for example "front:CARD=Audiophilleocom,DEV=0" setting in SqueezeLite setting in PiCorePlayer. I could hear "nap nap nap ..." from speakers with some settings, so I was not far away from the goal. 

Now I am not sure if
- my squeezelite setting (above) is correct?
- if I select and play the music from Tidal app or from LMS interface? In LMS interface I can see music which is on my laptop.
- if I have to change settings in Windows 10,  Tidal, SqueezeLite, LMS or somewhere else?
- how to make JRiver music on my laptop going through DAC and amplifier to my speakers?

Tuomo

 

Tuomo posted:

Thank you Chris,

I followed your instructions and I was able to set up PiCorePlayer somehow. I added a ickStream plug-in for Tidal and tried for example "front:CARD=Audiophilleocom,DEV=0" setting in SqueezeLite setting in PiCorePlayer. I could hear "nap nap nap ..." from speakers with some settings, so I was not far away from the goal. 

Now I am not sure if
- my squeezelite setting (above) is correct?
- if I select and play the music from Tidal app or from LMS interface? In LMS interface I can see music which is on my laptop.
- if I have to change settings in Windows 10,  Tidal, SqueezeLite, LMS or somewhere else?
- how to make JRiver music on my laptop going through DAC and amplifier to my speakers?

Tuomo

 

Hi Tuomo

i think you are very close now. Is there another option in the PiCorePlayer settings with Audiophilecom, maybe that includes "hw" as well? I did say that this is usually the tricky bit!

chris

Just installed a RP3 with piCorePlayer. Attached a StarTech 4 USB extender. Disabled Squeezelite and installed & enabled LMS.

This is in place of using my Synology 1812+. It is an improvement, despite a reduction in RAM, 3GB vs 1GB; more CPU grunt of course.

Gotchas:

The web interface only allows you to mount one USB and one Network share;
The file system is Read Only.
Attaching to my NAS SMB share didn't work via the GUI.

Solutions

You can create directories and mount USBs via SSH to the command line; however, these are removed on reboot.
Attaching to the NAS worked without issue via SSH.

To make the changes robust requires adding commands to /opt/bootlocal.sh and then backing up the changes by running "pcp bu", which I will be investigating today.

M

Mr Underhill posted:

Just installed a RP3 with piCorePlayer. Attached a StarTech 4 USB extender. Disabled Squeezelite and installed & enabled LMS.

This is in place of using my Synology 1812+. It is an improvement, despite a reduction in RAM, 3GB vs 1GB; more CPU grunt of course.

Gotchas:

The web interface only allows you to mount one USB and one Network share;
The file system is Read Only.
Attaching to my NAS SMB share didn't work via the GUI.

Solutions

You can create directories and mount USBs via SSH to the command line; however, these are removed on reboot.
Attaching to the NAS worked without issue via SSH.

To make the changes robust requires adding commands to /opt/bootlocal.sh and then backing up the changes by running "pcp bu", which I will be investigating today.

M

I do not know the piCorePlayer but if you install MinimServer (http://minimserver.com/index.html) and upmpdcli (http://www.lesbonscomptes.com/upmpdcli/index.html) you have full flexibility.

You do not need any web interface or modifications to /opt/bootlocal.sh. MinimServer and upmpdcli start automatically at boot time (if you ever need to reboot) and you can configure Minimserver (add directories, tag aliases, index tags, options, manage updates, etc.) remotely with MinimWatch. Upmpdcli uses minimal resources and once configured (by editing /etc/upmpdcli.conf after remote SSH login) it nicely runs in the background and you can forget about it. It relies on MPD which gives you the possibility to control replay via a MPD client should you have problems with your UPnP control point (Linn Kazoo, Lumin, etc.) or if you fancy to do so. Tidal works flawlessly via upmpdcli even with a (relatively) weak wireless connection.

No matter what you use, do not forget to make an image of your SD card once you have a system that you want to be able to restore or mirror.

Thx for the thought. I have extensively tried Minimserver, and would recommend anyone to try it; in my system I prefer LMS .....and it has a plugin for Quboz. The only gotcha is you cannot stream remote FLAC files as PCM; although I might be able to do this if I use C-3PO, but this requires a special build of Squeezelite, that is not installed on my microRendu .....bloody computers.

WRT imaging: always good advice.

Cheers,

M

From the point of view of flexibility, reliability and cost the RPi is hard to beat. If you think that more memory and/or a faster CPU could be of advantage, you could have a look at the fitPC line of products. Tinygreenpc, for instance, has the whole range of fitPC products. They are very well built, fanless and the die-cast aluminium case of the fitPC3 or FitletH has a finishing which is very similar to that of classical Naim boxes. I have been using a fitPC3 as my main music server for about three years. Best, nbpf 

nbpf posted:

From the point of view of flexibility, reliability and cost the RPi is hard to beat. If you think that more memory and/or a faster CPU could be of advantage, you could have a look at the fitPC line of products. Tinygreenpc, for instance, has the whole range of fitPC products. They are very well built, fanless and the die-cast aluminium case of the fitPC3 or FitletH has a finishing which is very similar to that of classical Naim boxes. I have been using a fitPC3 as my main music server for about three years. Best, nbpf 

The soon to be available ASUS Tinker Board may meet you power and memory requirements and will fit in a case designed for the Raspberry Pi. I have one on order.

Chris

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