pmc fact 12

MDS posted:

I know one member on here, who no longer posts, had a pair and thought it took a 500 to drive them well.  I don't know whether the 300 is up to the job but would be interested to know. 

If we are thinking of the same person, I thought that he had the NAP500 before the Fact 12s and had previously sold the NAP300 that was used wonky - so I'm not sure how that conclusion would have been achieved through comparing - although driving them with a NAP500 has got to be good 

Yes, FT, I seem to remember reading comments on here that Fact 12s took quite a bit of driving. Curious though that your 135s just about managed but the successor power amp, the 300, struggled. Normally you would expect it to be the other way round. 

Chris Dolan posted:
MDS posted:

I know one member on here, who no longer posts, had a pair and thought it took a 500 to drive them well.  I don't know whether the 300 is up to the job but would be interested to know. 

If we are thinking of the same person, I thought that he had the NAP500 before the Fact 12s and had previously sold the NAP300 that was used wonky - so I'm not sure how that conclusion would have been achieved through comparing - although driving them with a NAP500 has got to be good 

Yes, Chris. We are thinking of the same member. And I think you're right that his Fact 12s arrived after his 500.  

DeepPurple posted:

My 300DR drives the Fact12’s just fine. Just for completeness, the 300 is partnered with a 272 pre and all primary cabling is SL with Powerlines feeding both pre and power amps.

Interesting. What is the size of your listening room, DeepPurple?

A friend of mine is running Fact 8's, originally with a pair of 135's but then added a second pair of 135's to bi-amp them. There was a significant improvement in performance, so I can well imagine that a 500 on Fact 12's might be a prerequisite to maximise their performance? They do seem to be quite a difficult load. However, they are a very good speaker and one of the very few that I'd have on my shortlist. 

MDS - had this setup now for 2 years and never had to push the 272 above 50 (which fills most of the house). Had it about 55 once when SWMBO was out and came home early. She claimed that, although we live in the back of the house, she could clearly recognise the tune I was playing from the street! Normal listening level is between 30 and 40. Hope this helps.

DeepPurple posted:

MDS - had this setup now for 2 years and never had to push the 272 above 50 (which fills most of the house). Had it about 55 once when SWMBO was out and came home early. She claimed that, although we live in the back of the house, she could clearly recognise the tune I was playing from the street! Normal listening level is between 30 and 40. Hope this helps.

Thanks. It does.

MDS - Just for info before I bought the 12s I auditioned Focal Sopra 2s and ProAc K6s. The ProAcs to me sounded disjointed in terms of the bass seemed to be in different boxes to the upper range, whilst the Focals sounded gorgeous but (1) Daughter came home and said “why have you got a pair of Daleks in the living room and then (2) SHMBO arrived and stated in no uncertain terms that she was not going to share the living room with a pair of oversized TicTak boxes.

The PMCs fitted the bill sonically and also aesthetically, but curiously were the most expensive.  Such is life......

Geko posted:

A friend of mine is running Fact 8's, originally with a pair of 135's but then added a second pair of 135's to bi-amp them. There was a significant improvement in performance, so I can well imagine that a 500 on Fact 12's might be a prerequisite to maximise their performance? They do seem to be quite a difficult load. However, they are a very good speaker and one of the very few that I'd have on my shortlist. 

I thought Fact 8’s were phenomenal on the end of 272/250. Up against Dynaudio, Focal and B&W of similar price there was no comparison for musical involvement. Razor sharp and as fast as real time, they communicated the music rather than the HiFi. I can only guess how good Fact12 might be. On my list of possible upgrade speakers along with Kudos 606/707.

I heard Fact12s at the Bristol show either earlier this year or last, I cannot be certain which. They were being driven by some handsome looking Bryston amps with a Bryston streamer source. Not only did the speakers look superb, with a beautiful finish, but the sound was probably the best I heard at the show. Very slim from the front, so possibly quite domestically acceptable too. They would definitely be on a shortlist if the NBLs had to be replaced.

Further to my earlier post about auditioning ProAc K6s, I have just been reading another thread “250DR V 300” and came across:-

“I can't comment on the 282, but auditioned both the 300DR and the 250DR with a 272 (+555). In my room (6m x 5m) with ProAc K6 speakers the 300 was a great disappointment, producing overblown, overpowering, muddy, booming bass. As soon as it was replaced by the 250 it was as if a curtain had lifted, and I heard music better than anything I had experienced before.”

I upgraded a non-DR 250.2 for the 300DR, maybe if I had changed the speakers first I would have stuck with the ProAcs.

I've  heard Fact 12s twice, neither with Naim amps but given some other contributions here my thoughts might be of interest. (For the record, on both occasions amp was Bryston 4Bsst2)

First room dimensions were maybe 18ft long, 13 or14ft wide, speakers firing across room, listening sofa close to wall, front of speakers maybe 5- 6ft from wall. It was aspeaker comparison, including PMC MB2SE, PMC Twenty-26 and IMF RSPMs (>45yrs old).. Overall I felt the Fact 12s were very good, great clarity, completely different league To Twenty-26, surprisingly good bass for their diminutive size, however the soundstage seemed a little constrained.

Next time I heard Fact 12 was in a similarly sized room and about the same distance from speakers, but firing down the room, sofa maybe 4ft from the back wall. They sounded really good, this time no feeling of constrained soundstage. (N.B. not compared with other speakers)

On both occasions settings on the speakers were flat.

Overall I felt the Fact 12s were very good indeed and would be fantastic speakers if space was limited and I had to have small speakers, but I suspect in a significantly larger room they might be limited by their relatively low sensitivity and power handling capacity due to their small drivers. The Bryston amp seemed adequate (but then it has 300w capability into 8Ω, but no other amps compared.

MDS posted:

I know one member on here, who no longer posts, had a pair and thought it took a 500 to drive them well.  I don't know whether the 300 is up to the job but would be interested to know. 

A few of us have heard said lapsed member's Fact12s, and jolly good they sound too. He used a 500/552/5 combination at the time - the 'Fact" that he no longer posts on the forum probably means he's still pretty happy with them! I first listened to a pair at a Signals show a few years ago, and was really struck by how good they sounded.

DeepPurple posted:

MDS - Just for info before I bought the 12s I auditioned Focal Sopra 2s and ProAc K6s. The ProAcs to me sounded disjointed in terms of the bass seemed to be in different boxes to the upper range, whilst the Focals sounded gorgeous but (1) Daughter came home and said “why have you got a pair of Daleks in the living room and then (2) SHMBO arrived and stated in no uncertain terms that she was not going to share the living room with a pair of oversized TicTak boxes.

The PMCs fitted the bill sonically and also aesthetically, but curiously were the most expensive.  Such is life......

Not always, but most of the time, in this World We Live In.

There's a direct relationship, between price & quality!

Allante93!

tonym posted:
MDS posted:

I know one member on here, who no longer posts, had a pair and thought it took a 500 to drive them well.  I don't know whether the 300 is up to the job but would be interested to know. 

A few of us have heard said lapsed member's Fact12s, and jolly good they sound too. He used a 500/552/5 combination at the time - the 'Fact" that he no longer posts on the forum probably means he's still pretty happy with them! I first listened to a pair at a Signals show a few years ago, and was really struck by how good they sounded.

I hope Peter's still enjoying his system, Tony. I miss his posts. We chatted on the phone once and he seemed a really nice guy. Maybe he'll return to this place one day.

DeepPurple posted:

MDS - Just for info before I bought the 12s I auditioned Focal Sopra 2s and ProAc K6s. The ProAcs to me sounded disjointed in terms of the bass seemed to be in different boxes to the upper range, whilst the Focals sounded gorgeous but (1) Daughter came home and said “why have you got a pair of Daleks in the living room and then (2) SHMBO arrived and stated in no uncertain terms that she was not going to share the living room with a pair of oversized TicTak boxes.

The PMCs fitted the bill sonically and also aesthetically, but curiously were the most expensive.  Such is life......

That interesting, DeepPurple. Thank you.  As it happens if I were to change my current speakers (Focal Electra 1028be) the default would be Sopra 2s.  I've heard them in store a couple of times and like what I hear. But they are big beasts and although I don't dislike the styling, they can hardly be called discrete. Quite the opposite of the elegant and slim-line Fact 12s.  

My Fact 12s are driven by a 552/300DR combination very well.  I started with 552/200 combination, in the middle of my upgrade path.  The 200 didn't have the power to produce great results from the Fact 12s; the sound stage was vague and the highs and lows were not crisp.  The upgrade to the 300DR was night and day.  The Fact 12s now produce great results firing down a room of 18 ft X 12 ft.  I'm currently using NACA5 cable, so my next upgrade is to a full SL loom and I'm expecting the Fact 12s to sound even better.

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