pmc twenty 26

leni v posted:

Never heard the 20 26 but from comments in the forum i think they need a better tweeter. Anyway that s my impression based on comments here.

I love these uninformed throw away misleading comments. 

There are many PMC Twenty and Twenty5 users on the forum. About two who auditioned them found the characteristics of the tweeter not to their taste. I'd not form any opinion on that or in fact pay any attention to speaker recomnendations on the forum in general. Since no one has your room or ears and speakers are a huge matter of personal taste, assuming you might lije or duslike a pair of speakers based on others comments is like deciding you don't like asparagus because your friend says it taste horrible.

@JHONNY5 (is Alive!) you may be surprised. It may be that the PMC character is not for you. But if you are worried about the cost disparity between the Twenty5.23 and the amplification chain, don't be. I originally bought the older Twenty.23 to go with a 282/HCdr/250.2 all at the same time. Started auditioning the same speakers with a SuperUniti but they responded excellently to each upgrade, so I stuck with them when placing the final order. Then adding a SCdr to the 282 and they let through the improvement instantly. 

After moving the power amp to a 250dr, I took an opportunity to get Twenty5.23 for an amazing price. I've mentioned many times here that I budgeted for Twenty5.26 for that upgrade but went with the smaller 23s because the 26s can be demanding of room size and I didn't feel like I should blow GBP6k just because I could. In my 8x7m room, the Twenty5.23s are almost too much. There is no way I could have gotten away with 26s in this (already largeish) room.

If the OP cannot audition the speakers, and is not already familiar with a similarly sized PMC speaker, I'd not risk buying on a punt. Better to wait until audition chances arise, which, if you live miles from a dealer (or even with no dealer in your country) could take a year or more I realise.

I agree, take no notice of such throwaway comments. I auditioned the 20.26 and thought they sounded amazing from top to bottom. I would have kept them if my room was big enough to cope. They were way too bass heavy for my modest room 4.2m X 4m. A very special speaker.

If your room is big enough then I would recommend an audition.

I eventually settled with ATC scm40 actives, still just a tad too much bass for my room but acceptable.  Scm19 were a perfect fit room-wise.

By all means please try, but depending on where you have come from you might find the tweeter relatively a little coarse or unresolving... I did .. disappointingly so... I tried on both Statement and 252 based systems.. it also depends on the music you like.. I like choral music which really needs a smooth detailed Hf driver, not a crunchy exciting one, and perhaps therefore they just weren’t for me

If you’re contemplating buying 20-26 or 25-26 new, it may be worth considering instead a secondhand Fact 12, which is a very much better speaker, and slightly tweakable to better match the room. I’ve seen them as low as £8k ex dem in UK, and a pair was advertised only a week or so ago on a German site for something like €6.5k.

Johnny5 posted:

looking at pmc web page the fact 8 will fit any size room they claim in the brochure.  ...might be a better option than the twenty 5 26.I will need to hear the facts because they have a difference sound looking at some of the forums. 

Something is ringing a bell. Was it you who had the recent thread on Fact 8, and your dealer doesn’t stock them for you to hear? If that recollection is right, someone did suggest that it would be worth speaking to the dealer who may be able to obtain one for the purpose of audition. My understanding , though i haven’t compared, is that Fact 8 doesn’t do as deep bass as 20-26, but is better above that. Fact 12 is better than 20-26 all round - more refined I think would be my summary from when I heard them both a couple of years ago.

Of course, the only way of being certain is hearing, in an environment as close to your own room as possible: I heard the F12 in two different rooms, and in one the soundstage seemed rather compressed, the other not at all, but apart from that they sounded great in both. The first room, purely from mental image, was maybe 20x12 feet, firing across, with speakers some way out from wall and listening position very close to wall, and the second maybe 15x18 feet firing down the length, speakers and sofa both well out from walls.

leni v posted:

Same seas sonolex 27 mm soft dome tweeter from entry level 2000 GBP 21 up to the 7000 GBP 26.

I don’t disagree: however, your response saying “same tweeter” was when the OP suggested 25-26 in place of 20-26, following adverse comments about the tweeter of the 20-26. The 25 series all share the same tweeter, as indeed do the 20series as you noted, but the 25 series tweeter is not the same unit as that of the 20 series, having been improved in some way.

Innocent Bystander posted:
leni v posted:

Same seas sonolex 27 mm soft dome tweeter from entry level 2000 GBP 21 up to the 7000 GBP 26.

I don’t disagree: however, your response saying “same tweeter” was when the OP suggested 25-26 in place of 20-26, following adverse comments about the tweeter of the 20-26. The 25 series all share the same tweeter, as indeed do the 20series as you noted, but the 25 series tweeter is not the same unit as that of the 20 series, having been improved in some way.

Indeed. Different screws. Different mesh coating and shape. And the Twenty5 series crossover makes the tweeter work almost as a mid-high driver. 

Should also point out that in general, tweeters are often (but not always) chosen as the one constant in most speaker ranges. 

leni v posted:

I would expect in a7 k speaker better components  then in a 2-3k speaker.

 

There are many approaches to speakers design, in the case of PMC’s transmission line based design, the cabinet material construction is a critical factor and contributor to cost. So, comparing specs of the drivers is a waste of time. 

 

For the OP, I really hope you get to listen to as many speakers as you can , PMC as well as others.  You are not going to ge very much from forums or revie others than forming a short list for home demos.

BTW, I contacted PMC (not the dealer).

 

 

 

leni v posted:

I would expect in a7 k speaker better components  then in a 2-3k speaker.

 

The biggest cost (and size) in a speaker is getting the bass right, and that is what generally improves up the range, as certainly is te case with PMC and their transmission line approach, of course costing more in the process. At some point in the range as the bass driver gets better at bass it becomes better to use a separate midrange unit, that also allowing improvement of the mid, and that, with the associated increase in complexity of the crossover,  also adds to the cost.

leni v posted:

I would expect in a7 k speaker better components  then in a 2-3k speaker.

It’s not unusual that a range of speakers from a manufacturer use the same components (such as shared tweeter) from the smallest stand mount to the largest floor stand in a range.  

Do you cricpticise the B&W 800D because it has the same tweeter as the 805D - £22.5k vs £4.5k.  The three (soon to be four) Kudos Titan speakers use the same tweeter from £9k - £21k  (To use two examples). You can even often find within a manufacturer where the smallest of one range costs less than the biggest of another range and uses a superior tweeter (e.g. B&W 707s2 has a superior tweeter at £800 to the 683s2 at £1200).

leni v posted:

While b&w gave  their smallest 805d the flagship 800 diamond tweeter pmc did the opposite.

I’m sorry, I’m not sure I understand, as far as I know all the PMC twenty5 series share the same tweeter, the 27mm PMC/ SEAS one I have in my 23s. It’s a very capable tweeter, I love the sounds I get from the Nova driven PMCs. ( As an aside, I didn't like the 1st generation diamond tweeter in the 800 series, I found it too bright on the end of my 135s, admittedly it may have been the match to the olives. That’s why I have 804s in my main system.)

I also used to own 20.23 and occasionally did find the top end a little unforgiving. The 20.26 was not like this at all, not sure if the mid driver (very nice it was too) taking the extra work off the tweeter helped smooth things out. 20.26 was very easy on the ear.

I don't really understand the comments about 20.26 having a hard or a coarse top end as I did not experience this.

Try for yourself rather than accept other people's opinion as fact. There are so many variables at play such as room acoustics, source, speaker position, listening position, cables, etc.

Halloween Man posted:

I also used to own 20.23 and occasionally did find the top end a little unforgiving. The 20.26 was not like this at all, not sure if the mid driver (very nice it was too) taking the extra work off the tweeter helped smooth things out. 20.26 was very easy on the ear.

It was said about Super-tweeters that adding them to a speaker could help the bass... so no reason the converse can’t happen.

leni v posted:

Since you feel the 23 are outclassed by the 282 and since the 26 uses the same tweeter  like the 23 you have your answer. look elsewhere.

got to hear fact 8 today a friend of a friend and have to say a much better speaker than 25 23 night and day, you can hear very quickly where the extra cash is they do every thing better..  not as deep bass as 26 that's it they do need to be angled slightly a bit lean firing straight.

leni v posted:

While b&w gave  their smallest 805d the flagship 800 diamond tweeter pmc did the opposite.

Huh? Please clarify. 

Or do you mean PMC have differemt tweeters on their dofferent ranges, i.e. SE different from  Fact different from 25 different from 20? That is rather expected, I think.

Johnny5 posted:
leni v posted:

Since you feel the 23 are outclassed by the 282 and since the 26 uses the same tweeter  like the 23 you have your answer. look elsewhere.

got to hear fact 8 today a friend of a friend and have to say a much better speaker than 25 23 night and day, you can hear very quickly where the extra cash is they do every thing better..  not as deep bass as 26 that's it they do need to be angled slightly a bit lean firing straight.

The 12 of course would bring the deep bass - you can tell from the size, and of course the relative price.

Innocent Bystander posted:
Johnny5 posted:
leni v posted:

Since you feel the 23 are outclassed by the 282 and since the 26 uses the same tweeter  like the 23 you have your answer. look elsewhere.

got to hear fact 8 today a friend of a friend and have to say a much better speaker than 25 23 night and day, you can hear very quickly where the extra cash is they do every thing better..  not as deep bass as 26 that's it they do need to be angled slightly a bit lean firing straight.

The 12 of course would bring the deep bass - you can tell from the size, and of course the relative price.

Now the Fact12 would need a home demo if the OP has a 250. I had a thread a few years back, when I was last active on the forum, where I pondered getting a pair but couldn't home demo. Observations from owners ranged from "my 250dr drives them fine" to "I couldn't get them to get out of bed for less than a NAP500"

feeling_zen posted:

In my 8x7m room, the Twenty5.23s are almost too much. There is no way I could have gotten away with 26s in this (already largeish) room.

7x8m equals 56 square meters. You must have some serious acoustic problems if "Twenty5.23s are almost too much". Ever considered moving out from your palace? 

Certainly a room of that size doesn’t count as smalI - but of course much depends on how much bass an individual likes or considers to be realistic. My own room is marginally smaller, and  I have significantly meatier speakers and the bass sound great to me, achieving what I hear and feel with live performances. And I have had similar speakers to these in quite a bit smaller rooms over the years without problem (smallest a rectangular 17.5m2) - just care on positioning. 

Dan.S posted:
feeling_zen posted:

In my 8x7m room, the Twenty5.23s are almost too much. There is no way I could have gotten away with 26s in this (already largeish) room.

7x8m equals 56 square meters. You must have some serious acoustic problems if "Twenty5.23s are almost too much". Ever considered moving out from your palace? 

Heavily sprung floor. 

Like most advice mentioned, you need to hear them. I have the 282/250.2 combination and auditioned twenty5 24 vs. twenty 26 - I bought the 26's. Great speaker and it was the mid range detail that sold me on why that was the right choice.

They are very easy to positon as they are not back ported, so the back wall makes little difference to the overall sound. Are they too bass heavy, or is the tweeter not good enough, I'm afraid your ears are the best for you on that.

Best of luck

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