Question of the year !!

Hello everybody!

I've got a supernait2 as my first Naim product as It was the first one meeting my needs that for a long time I couldn't explain in words! I have always been looking to what I' ve found to be defined as "attack, transient attack and crispy edge midrange" that naim seem to have a strong degree!!

so here is my question:

how do you think this characteristic interface and interact with the definitions of a warm sound vs cold sound....and the same with less or more harmonics and detail??

I mean the sound with good transient attack like "grainy" textured midrange (in a good sense) and that "pops" almost scratchy but that I prefer....it's like having a more drier mids....but I perceive more PRESENCE at the same time.....what I do not get is that usually what is defined as a warm sound had all of these things rounded off a bit like some saturation with softer edges....so does what I mean goes in a "colder" sound direction?? 

I really need to make this clear cause noone seems to get what I am looking for when buying new stuff and expecially on the net I've made a lot of mistakes getting wrong equipment!!

Same goes for detail and harmonics....can they live with all this or it is something where one excludes the other??

and finally...after many euros spent....I think you are right that naim stuff pairs with naim stuff and nothin else as the balance is soo sensitive that even a small change can bring it in a totally different direction!

thanx in advance to all of you!

Original Post

ok...this is the summary:

is a sound with "attack, transient attack and crispy edge midrange" associated with a cold or a warm sound??

same for the opposite....rounded edges and less attack are usually associated with tubelike warm sound....so is there a price to pay to get that type of midrange or the things are not related and why?

same for more or less harmonics in the sound....

 

 

Is the OP trying to get a consensus on descriptions of SQ to avoid making mistakes by misunderstanding descriptions of SQ when buying HiFi blind on t'internet?

If so, rather than try to understand the OP's SQ descriptors, the advice should be.....never buy blind on the net and always get a thorough demo (preferably at home) before spending large sums of money.

Only by hearing kit for yourself can you be sure if it is the sound you like and can live with long term.

I, of course, could have completely misunderstood the reason for the question of the year!

it' about me and not about an OP anymore (even if you are completely right)

I'd like to get these points clear!

What threw me away from the path is that I was choosing between two different amps and the "softer/rounder" one defined by the others warmer to me it was more "distant"....but the one with good midrange edge was felt more present to me and I don' t know more "analog" if this definition is right. So is that edge in the end considered as more
midrange detail??

wenger2015 posted:

What are you expecting from the Monitor Gold 300’s?

have no idea ...still have to demo 

I am looking for a EXTRA SOLID bass punch really controlled (my cm9 needs some caffeine in the woofers) ....midrange as I've described before and right amount of brightness in the highs....as for "projection" I like more "in your face" sound and not that "going around the room" feeling which I know tires me after the first wow! 

maybe ATC?

999inmydreams666 posted:

OP is suggesting Monitor audio gold 300.....

I'm into electronic, rap, rnb, some extreme hardcore metal but also chill out/ambient techno some pop but ZERO JAZZ AND CLASSICAL!! ....so maybe I'd like all of too different worlds!!

any short OT suggestions?

Where are you based?  This will affect what is likely to be available to listen to at dealers, which is the only way to start to choose.

It sounds like you'd enjoy something at the more assertive end of the speaker market.  But for example there are those who say that classic Spendors are the perfect speakers for metal, even though those speakers are generally thought to be laid back and made for classical or acoustic music.  I listen to quite a range of stuff including some pretty hard electronic stuff and the very hardest-core of metal, but I still tend to like a warmer sound.  Yet I still like my SBLs, which are supposedly less warm than a lot of other speakers...  It's a bit of a minefield.

You can only really tell for yourself by listening for yourself.

How are you liking the Nordost?   Most new Naim systems start with the Lavender interconnects and the NACA5 speaker cable.   You should at least try those to get a handle on the house sound.    

I have a little of the Nordost in my system but a little goes a long way.    My son has Crimson Electronics speaker cable in his Unitiqute based system and it is very nice with Naim and cheaper than NACA5.   

Power cords can affect the hardness of the sound with some boxes in my experience. As I’m trying a Core at the moment, and thought it a bit hard I swapped it’s Powerline Lite with the Crabtree NAIM lead on my CDX2. The Core sounded better. Of course it might just be the position in my bank of sockets. I then decided to see how the CDX2 sounded with the XPSDR rather than playing through the nDAC. It’s a big step up after having a week to run in, but the piano on Norah Jones CDs sounded a bit hard. I’ve now swapped them back and hey presto the piano is warmer. 

Well give it a try.

Phil

I have MA GX300s and they are the longest surviving component in my otherwise Naim system. I keep meaning to upgrade them but electronics has always come first and these speakers are transparent enough to clearly reveal the SQ uplift every black box (and cable) upgrade I have made to date.

But it would be wrong for me to recommend the GX300s to you as they may not be your cup of tea. They have 'base punch' but only you can decide if it is 'extra solid' for example. By all means have a shortlist but you will ultimately be restricted to those speaker brands the dealers have to offer within travelling distance to allow a proper demonstration. I would also suggest a Naim dealer would be better placed to recommend speakers that complement Naim electronics and demonstrate speakers with the Naim gear you have or are considering. Naim dealers in the UK are also usually willing to loan equipment so you can try in your own home, the ultimate demo.

I agree this "question" is hard to decipher.  To the extent I understand it, I have to say that there are trade offs in every piece of equipment.

I have a lot of experience with the SN2 and I know I'm in the minority, but I don't think it's the right amplifier for every system and taste.  I fell in love with the XS-2 (60 wpc) when it first came out in, I believe, 2009.  I ended up keeping it for over four years until the SN2 came out.  While I was very impressed with how dynamic, quiet, and powerful the SN2 sounded, it did not, for lack of a better word, bounce quite like the XS-2 did, so I eventually found another XS-2.  I kept them both for a fair amount of time and ultimately preferred the XS-2.  It might be less nuanced and powerful than the XS-2, but those aren't things the XS-2 ever lacked in my experience.  

Today I received an Atom because I am immensely curious about this new generation of product and I really hope it's more like the XS-2 than the SN2 as I finally figured out that's the sound I prefer.

Skip posted:

How are you liking the Nordost?   Most new Naim systems start with the Lavender interconnects and the NACA5 speaker cable.   You should at least try those to get a handle on the house sound.    

I have a little of the Nordost in my system but a little goes a long way.    My son has Crimson Electronics speaker cable in his Unitiqute based system and it is very nice with Naim and cheaper than NACA5.   

I ve tried purple flare than red dawn and at first they are more "complete" in harmonics reproduction...they have a personal "halo"....but still...we are talking about a lot of coloration on the sound with what they do! swapping the power cable only as a test with the naim standard supplied one...the sound is a little less refined in the highs but maybe more neutral in everything else! Think I've made a mistake....don't know what to do now...I've just got the new cables after the demo ones...

michael G posted:

I agree this "question" is hard to decipher.  To the extent I understand it, I have to say that there are trade offs in every piece of equipment.

I have a lot of experience with the SN2 and I know I'm in the minority, but I don't think it's the right amplifier for every system and taste.  I fell in love with the XS-2 (60 wpc) when it first came out in, I believe, 2009.  I ended up keeping it for over four years until the SN2 came out.  While I was very impressed with how dynamic, quiet, and powerful the SN2 sounded, it did not, for lack of a better word, bounce quite like the XS-2 did, so I eventually found another XS-2.  I kept them both for a fair amount of time and ultimately preferred the XS-2.  It might be less nuanced and powerful than the XS-2, but those aren't things the XS-2 ever lacked in my experience.  

Today I received an Atom because I am immensely curious about this new generation of product and I really hope it's more like the XS-2 than the SN2 as I finally figured out that's the sound I prefer.

sn2 has more that sense of "realism" bringing more harmonics to the sounds it has that more "quiet" sensation you've said....but maybe this is a price to pay too!

it's a "game"with too many variables.... that's why I was wondering about those definitions at the first post...so I can get to the point of the sound I am looking for!

Don't know when I say attack in the midrange it is marked as a "cold sound" but to me it sounds warmer than a mid with rounded edges...

In a synaesthetic sense what your describing seems to me like eating a very nice apple. Texture, crunch and all those other things that we can all look for in a very personal opinion on what's a " nice apple".

I suggest you chew on it more to help differentiate

Reminds me of a good few years ago sharing wine with some French friends. first time ever experiencing fine but locally inexpensive stuff that just tasted so different to French wine bought from British supermarkets.   The troubles I had describing those subtle nuances of flavour that I couldn't find in anything at hand.

999inmydreams666 posted:
wenger2015 posted:

What are you expecting from the Monitor Gold 300’s?

have no idea ...still have to demo 

I am looking for a EXTRA SOLID bass punch really controlled (my cm9 needs some caffeine in the woofers) ....midrange as I've described before and right amount of brightness in the highs....as for "projection" I like more "in your face" sound and not that "going around the room" feeling which I know tires me after the first wow! 

maybe ATC?

I heard the ATC SMC19 speakers a couple of weeks ago with a SN2 and they were fantastic to my ears, so if you can get a demo and give them a listen they just might meet your needs. 

999inmydreams666 posted:
michael G posted:

I agree this "question" is hard to decipher.  To the extent I understand it, I have to say that there are trade offs in every piece of equipment.

I have a lot of experience with the SN2 and I know I'm in the minority, but I don't think it's the right amplifier for every system and taste.  I fell in love with the XS-2 (60 wpc) when it first came out in, I believe, 2009.  I ended up keeping it for over four years until the SN2 came out.  While I was very impressed with how dynamic, quiet, and powerful the SN2 sounded, it did not, for lack of a better word, bounce quite like the XS-2 did, so I eventually found another XS-2.  I kept them both for a fair amount of time and ultimately preferred the XS-2.  It might be less nuanced and powerful than the XS-2, but those aren't things the XS-2 ever lacked in my experience.  

Today I received an Atom because I am immensely curious about this new generation of product and I really hope it's more like the XS-2 than the SN2 as I finally figured out that's the sound I prefer.

sn2 has more that sense of "realism" bringing more harmonics to the sounds it has that more "quiet" sensation you've said....but maybe this is a price to pay too!

it's a "game"with too many variables.... that's why I was wondering about those definitions at the first post...so I can get to the point of the sound I am looking for!

Don't know when I say attack in the midrange it is marked as a "cold sound" but to me it sounds warmer than a mid with rounded edges...

Is this a preference to get your toes tapping or is it something more than that..

I enjoy the somewhat edgy, exciting sound that Naim gear produces. Maybe that's what's meant.
Is it warm and cuddly? No.
Is it cold and unfriendly? No.
Does it excite me and draw out and present the mid-range (including snapping of guitar strings, piano and vocals) into a real, involving wonderful sounds? Oh yes!

Other kit often sounds boring to me.

Some other kit sounds too much like an "exploded diagram" of the music.

I like my Naim sound.

Your music values are right for Naim.  You are in the right place to get your questions answered.

Have you visited a Naim dealer?   I have relationships with two of them.  One is 900 miles away.  One is 1700 miles away.   Each visit is a revelation.   These guys are good.

The thing I love about Naim is that you don't need a dealer if you stay within the brand.   You can do it all by UPS and be very happy.  But when you start adding Nordost and Crimson Electronics to the mix, or speakers, turntables or racks, you really will benefit from a dealer's advice.    They are not doctrinaire Naim groupies.  They sell other stuff and they want you to be happy.    Just try it.

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