SACD files into the DAC without a SACD player ?

quote:
Originally posted by Cookiemonster:
Dumb question - is it possible to rip files from a SACD so that they can then be played through the Naim DAC, if I don't have a SACD player ?

Thanks


Hi Cookiemonster -

The gotcha is not having an SACD player.

The copyright protection feature of SACD prohibits unprotected digital audio output of DSD via S/PDIF. It only works over HDMI because of HDCP.

Obviously, if you had an SACD player, there would be no problem with capturing its analog output and performing an A-to-D. Interestingly enough, the Korg MR1000 actually uses DSD as its native recording format, and includes playback capabilities.

Hook
quote:
Originally posted by ghook2020:
Interestingly enough, the Korg MR1000 actually uses DSD as its native recording format, and includes playback capabilities.

Hook


I have a Korg MR-1, the miniature version of the MR-1000 and it works great at recording in DSD. I believe Sony also have some affordable DSD recorders but I'm unsure if the DSD data can be used via a Naim DAC.
quote:
Originally posted by joesilva:
quote:
Originally posted by ghook2020:
Interestingly enough, the Korg MR1000 actually uses DSD as its native recording format, and includes playback capabilities.

Hook


I have a Korg MR-1, the miniature version of the MR-1000 and it works great at recording in DSD. I believe Sony also have some affordable DSD recorders but I'm unsure if the DSD data can be used via a Naim DAC.


Hi Joesilva -

Very cool!

Am curious - does the MR-1 let you write DSD to a CD? And if yes, will an SACD player play it? Wasn't clear from the Korg web site whether or not you were locked into their unit's DSD playback capability.

Glad to hear you like yours, and would love to hear more about it. I have plans to record my vinyl collection, but only after upgrading my table. I also like the idea of recording to DSD, then converting to hi-rez FLAC and streaming through the Naim DAC.

Thanks!

Hook
a roundabout way is to get a very good SACD player and captures its analogue output and use an A to D converter to convert the stream to 24/96 or 24/192.

Of course you are then at the mercy of the quality of the SACD player.

I tried that with my cheapo Pioneer SACD player and EMU A to D to capture my single layer SACDs so I can throw away the Pioneer. The result was surprisingly good. I know it would only ever be as good as the analogue output of the Pioneer but somehow it sounded quite nice.

Once again, my priority was only to avoid obsolescence and get the music out of the single layer SACDs, and I had quite a few of those.
quote:
Originally posted by pcstockton:
You can play SACD on some players and output PCM. Then capture the PCM with any number of products to encode as a 24/88 or 24/96 file. NO A to D required.


Hi Pcstockton -

Thanks for making this point. Had forgotten that my Oppo BDP-83 works exactly like this.

Am going to try connecting it to my sound card's digital input. This should work quite well!

Hook
It wouldn't make sense to record vinyl to SACD (DSD) and then transfer it again to a different format (PCM). You can go from your phono preamp to a high quality sound card and use Adobe Audition or other programs and have hi-resolution right from the beginning. Audition does 32/192, so it is good enough for most. From there, you can "play" it via digital output to your DAC.
quote:
Originally posted by ghook2020:


Hi Pcstockton -

Thanks for making this point. Had forgotten that my Oppo BDP-83 works exactly like this.

Am going to try connecting it to my sound card's digital input. This should work quite well!

Hook


That is EXACTLY the DVD player i was thinking about/referring to.
quote:
Originally posted by Visprashyana:
It wouldn't make sense to record vinyl to SACD (DSD) and then transfer it again to a different format (PCM). You can go from your phono preamp to a high quality sound card and use Adobe Audition or other programs and have hi-resolution right from the beginning. Audition does 32/192, so it is good enough for most. From there, you can "play" it via digital output to your DAC.


Actually there is an argument (depending how you want to use the files) of capturing vinyl (or any analogue) to DSD then converting it. IIRC the way DSD works makes conversion to an PCM format very transparent, so if you want a 16/44.1 version for your iPod and a 24/192 version for your music server (and onto DAC) then if you've captured via DSD your 16/44.1 version will be better than a conversion from 24/192. You can even convert the DSD version to 24/384 on a memory stick for use with the nDAC.

Korg (as mentioned) and TASCAM make units suitable for use in this way. The DSD files are then transferred to PC for manipulation and conversion to PCM.

Eloise
quote:
Originally posted by praganj:
AFAIK there is no SACD player with a digital SACD stream output. Some SACD players have PCM output, but through this output one can get only the digital data from "CD" layer, not SACD . If i am wrong, correct me Smile


My OPPO 83SE converts the DSD layer to PCM
quote:
Originally posted by Visprashyana:
It wouldn't make sense to record vinyl to SACD (DSD) and then transfer it again to a different format (PCM). You can go from your phono preamp to a high quality sound card and use Adobe Audition or other programs and have hi-resolution right from the beginning. Audition does 32/192, so it is good enough for most. From there, you can "play" it via digital output to your DAC.


Hi Visprashyana -

Eloise did a nice job of summarizing the flexibility argument for archiving to DSD, then down converting from there to whatever format you want.

One example where 1-bit DSD might work better than, say, 32/192 PCM as an archive is if you wanted to burn a 16/44.1 CD. Using the PCM as your source would require more interpolation on down conversion of the sample rate.

Not sure how controversial these perceived advantages of DSD recording are, but if you are interested, Korg has published a white paper. You can google "The 1-Bit Advantage – Future Proof Recording".

Hook
As far as I know some older multi format players (SACD, CD and DVD) from Pioneer are able to convert the SACD layer to PCM and the output true 24bit - but do not ask me about the sample rate they output. They did not use the PCM layer for this. Older PS 3 do this, too: Via HDMI they can output 24/176,4 and via optical 24/88,2. There is a website about all this stuff:
http://www.ps3sacd.com/dsddiscguide.html
I think there is no way to play DSD without a spinner of some kind, either multiformat SACD supported DVD or a dedicated SACD player.
The 1st, definitely cheaper option (onlz if you have a receiver, of course) is preferably done using HDMI output connected with multipurpose converters and logical circuits in DSD-capable AV-receivers such as modern Onkyo receivers.
From this point - one might connect AV-receiver through his pre-out lines with decent power amp such as Naim's.
Other ways, which eventually play lower bit rates are unacceptable and unnecessary.
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