Sonore micro rendu- dlna vs roon

Running this little box as my digital frontend for a while now and it's getting better day-by-day.

I found out that dlna mode (nas) sounds much better than roon endpoint (mac).

Any user with same experience? tx!

 

ralf

 

Ralf

Original Post

Over on CA there's users who say just the opposite. Probably depends on the power, etc for each piece of hardware. Maybe settings in Roon? Tried the Roon trial myself, cool, but not worth it to me at this point, esp the extra hardware that would need to be run and ensuing $. The microrendu was the best hifi purchase ever. 

My microRendu arrived yesterday. I was quite taken aback with just how much of an improvement it is over my previous setup, a Mac Mini directly connected to my DAC-V1 via USB.

Time will tell how much of an improvement it really is. Having just purchased the microRendu a dose of confirmation bias isn't impossible. I'm also losing Dirac room correction which is also having an effect on the sound. After a few weeks listening, I'll revert back to my original setup for a week or so, and see how I feel then.

Regarding the original question. So far I've only used it as an endpoint for my Roon library which is on the Mac Mini's internal SSD. Once I've had sufficient time to evaluate the microRendu as a device, I do plan to experiment with HQPlayer. It seems to be the approach to getting the best audio quality from Roon according to those at the Roon and CA forums.

It will of course be dac and power supply dependent on results. I can say that out of the box with the iPower it walloped the UQ I was using for streaming only into a DAC V1. Added a mid priced HDPLEX power supply and it took it up a notch, mostly in the musicality dept. Go up to a custom power supply like their own Signature and you are probably looking at or beyond an NDS - for a 1/5th of the price. Add a backend of Roon and HQPlayer and I guess it takes the sound even farther. Be sure to add a power supply to your nas as well. Really great piece of VFM kit if you have a dac already and want to stream with extreme sound quality to USB. I thought I would have to A/B the UQ but it went straight to the office where it make such more sense as an all-in-one. 

Charles,

Your experience is the biggest reason I am seriously considering this. I have moved my Qute to my TV so i can have decent Audio there.  I tossed an aging HT pre that didn't make music at all.  Currently in my hifi I am using a dedicated mini-PC feeding a Schiit Gungnir Multibit DAC via usb.  It would seem. From all the great reviews that I could use the PC just as a DNLA/Squeeze Server and use the MR to play the music to the DAC.  

Regards,

Charlie

Charlie,

That is correct. I'm using a Small Green Computer branded microVortexbox, which is essentially a small pc/nas with the linux VB OS on it. I run minimserver and transcode my flac files to WAV24. I don't use the cd ripper of the vortex box anymore; I find ripping them with dbpower on my macbook is faster, and then I let Bliss sort them out on the VB. I use the Lumin app on an iPad 2. A few ways to go for sure as far as software. I do see myself setting up a dedicated Roon/HQP server down the road but it's just too much at the moment (work and $). 

I'm finding every little bit on the chain makes a difference though, and if you can maximize that (cabling and power mostly) then one can get a lot of sound for a lot less than plonking on a big box with redundant bells and whistles. I love the V1 with no plans of replacing it anytime soon, and the rendu is a perfect companion. 

Best of luck!

CP

 

 

 

 

I received my microRendu  last week and since this weekend I am going back and forth between Roon native and Roon through HQPlayer. Native already sounds amazing and I find that HQPlayer improves even more (which I had purchased before) - I love the sound, I can sit down and listen for hours going through old and new music, it sounds better than anything else I have tried.

Btw, I use a DAC-V1 as DAC with a MacMini as source. I upsample HQPlayer to the highest PCM bitrate, DSD sounds a bit unbalanced I think (initial thought). GregW, as far as I know you can use Dirac room correction in HQPlayer - although I have no experience with this.

Janus posted:

I received my microRendu  last week and since this weekend I am going back and forth between Roon native and Roon through HQPlayer. Native already sounds amazing and I find that HQPlayer improves even more (which I had purchased before) - I love the sound, I can sit down and listen for hours going through old and new music, it sounds better than anything else I have tried.

Btw, I use a DAC-V1 as DAC with a MacMini as source. I upsample HQPlayer to the highest PCM bitrate, DSD sounds a bit unbalanced I think (initial thought). GregW, as far as I know you can use Dirac room correction in HQPlayer - although I have no experience with this.

Cool- thx! Will test it as well!! Is HQPlayer complicated to setup?

Not really, I was slightly puzzled because there is not a lot of documentation available about HQPlayer Network Audio Adapter (NAA) in combination with Roon but it turned out to be straight forward. Of course, you need to try different filter setting to see what sound you prefer best (sampling rates etc.). 

I'm just wondering, how is output switching done ?. If you want to go from it behaving as a Roon endpoint, to an Airplay endpoint - do you need to jump into the GUI and change settings ?. Or are both Roon/Airplay available at the same time, without switching ?.

My microRendu arrived on Friday, and after two very late listening sessions going well into the early hours later, I'm absolutely gobsmacked by sound now being produced by my DAC (a Resonessence Invicta Mirus). 

Pound for pound, the best value addition to my system without a shadow of a doubt. My NDX  soon to be sold! It's that damn good. There was no need for any A-B comparisons: after five minutes, I knew the microRendu was a keeper. Having also auditioned the Aurender N100H and the Melco N1A (as a USB DAC source) at home, this little box of tricks goes to the top of the tree for me.

To respond to the OP's question, I have now installed Roon core on my iMac, and have found the same result - that is that DLNA mode sounds marginally better than the Roon Endpoint mode. Bizarre but true - the iMac must be introducing some "digital nastiness" en route. 

Out of interest which power supplies are other owners using with their microRendu? I have the ifi iPower.

Currently the iFi iPower but pending launch and initial impressions I am considering the UpTone Audio UltraCap LPS-1. With John Swenson’s involvement in the design of both the microRendu and UltraCap LPS-1, there could be a good synergy between the two devices.

As I understand it, the UltraCap LPS-1 uses two banks of supercapacitors/ultracapacitors. One to power the connected device, the other in a state of charge ready to be quickly switched once the first bank looses charge etc.

The end result is an isolated, supercapacitor-baseed, ultra-low-noise linear power supply. Due to the isolation it means you can use any power supply to you like to energise the UltraCap LPS-1. The only consideration being how much noise the energising PSU puts back in to your mains. I plan to use the iFi iPower I picked up with my microRendu.

Worked my way through each of the mR modes, apart from Roon:

NAS/Minimserver > Kazoo > mR (DLNA) > Oppo 105D. I am thoroughly enjoying this.

LMS (Sqeezelite) is easier going, which helps some poorly recorded material.

I had a few hours with HQ Player (NAA) today and not as enthralled as I hoped, but I have only just scratched the surface with its settings. Listened to PCM at 96k and 192k. Transcoded PCM > DSD256.

 

Simon,

I tried to reply to your post, but I suspect that my post was blocked because of a mention of a certain power supply (albeit for potential use with the microRendu).

My post may eventually appear, so for the time being I will simply say that I have ordered a microRendu (as a potential replacement for my ND5XS) for use with my Chord Hugo in one of my systems  No estimated arrival date at the moment, and initially I will be using it with a bog-standard computer micro USB cable, and a cheapish (iFi) power supply, but will post my views as soon as I have had a chance to try it out ,

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Is anyone running a microRendu into a Chord Hugo? If so what are the opinions?

Simon,

Not yet.

However, I have ordered a microRendu with a view to using it with my Chord Hugo. I don't have an estimated arrival date yet, but will post my findings when it arrives.

I currently use my Hugo with my ND5XS streamer (& non-Naim PSU), and have until recently been quite sceptical about the effect a different transport would make to the SQ, but having read quite a few articles recently, I was considering purchasing a used NDX to compare with the ND5XS into the Chord in my 2nd (AV) system, on the basis that I could sell one of the two Naim streamers quite easily. However, having recently read about the microRendu in a number of places (including this forum), I have been tempted to give this a go because of its price. I'll post my views when I get the unit.

Just a couple of things to ponder on. The first is a USB cable to attach the device to the Hugo. Up until now I have only very briefly tried the USB input into the Hugo using a laptop and JRiver to try out DSD files prior to Naim making DSD available via their streamers. At the time I just used a bog standard computer USB to micro USB cable. I haven't got a decent USB cable to hand, and am finding it difficult to identify a decent (very) reasonably priced so called 'audiophile' micro USB cable that will fit my Hugo (which I am pretty sure has the original chassis) I understand for example that an Audioquest Cinnamon micro USB lead may not fit. Any suggestions? Has anyone found a decent micro USB cable for a 'Mark 1' Hugo?

The second is that the 2 power supplies I am considering for the microRendu (SBooster 6v BOTW P&P Eco or TPardo 7/2 7v) are not currently in stock in the UK, so it may take some time for one to arrive (when I finally make up my mind about which to order). So, in the short term I will be using  the relatively cheap 9v iFi power supply that is often bundled with the microRendu, and not particularly well reviewed elsewhere.

I guess if the microRendu/Hugo combination sounds impressive with the limitations of a bog standard USB cable and the cheap iFi power supply, then thing swill be looking good.

A bit of a punt from me on the basis of a number of reviews in a number of places, but then a similar punt with the Hugo turned up trumps.

I'll let you know.        

Hmack posted:

I have ordered a microRendu with a view to using it with my Chord Hugo. I don't have an estimated arrival date yet, but will post my findings when it arrives.

I currently use my Hugo with my ND5XS streamer (& non-Naim PSU), and have until recently been quite sceptical about the effect a different transport would make to the SQ, but having read quite a few articles recently, I was considering purchasing a used NDX to compare with the ND5XS into the Chord in my 2nd (AV) system, on the basis that I could sell one of the two Naim streamers quite easily. However, having recently read about the microRendu in a number of places (including this forum), I have been tempted to give this a go because of its price. I'll post my views when I get the unit.

Just a couple of things to ponder on. The first is a USB cable to attach the device to the Hugo. Up until now I have only very briefly tried the USB input into the Hugo using a laptop and JRiver to try out DSD files prior to Naim making DSD available via their streamers. At the time I just used a bog standard computer USB to micro USB cable. I haven't got a decent USB cable to hand, and am finding it difficult to identify a decent (very) reasonably priced so called 'audiophile' micro USB cable that will fit my Hugo (which I am pretty sure has the original chassis) I understand for example that an Audioquest Cinnamon micro USB lead may not fit. Any suggestions? Has anyone found a decent micro USB cable for a 'Mark 1' Hugo?

Having previously used an ND5XS into Hugo, then switched to AUdirvana on Mac Mini through a Gustard U12 isolator, there is indeed a difference between renderers. What is interesting is how the mR compares to each of these others. (NB, any Mac Mini solution not with dedicated Usb output bypassing the MM's soundcard and not with an effective isolator before Hugo is inherently compromised)

It might be worth knowing that, in another place, Rob Watts is now saying that even the DAVE with its galvanic isolation is not completely immune from the effects of RF on the USB input. He is now recommending those to who use a DAVE and want the ultimate in quality to either use their laptop on batteries, or as a second best to use an Audioquest jitterbug. Given that the Hugo has no galvanic isolation I would guess that it might be much more susceptible to noise issues from a USB source, so different sources could be expects to sound different, but it might also be the case that instead of messing about with different sources it would be better to investigate ways of isolating the source effectively in the first place.. A Gustard USB to spdif isolator is one way, an Intona USB isolator might be another, and I dare say there are other possibilities. 

I am having really good results serving my DNLA with a Windows 7 PC running Fidelizer (free). To my ears it is noticeably better than just a NAS. Also am using a Audioquest Pearl Ethernet Cable.  Currently using MinimServer.  I don't love how it presents on my Kazoo Tablet.  I tried the latest Asset Upnp, but it was skipping midway through songs.  

Transients seem more tight/defined. 

Mr Underhill posted:

I have been told by Vortexbox UK that the mR is galvanically isolated. I got a U12 delivered today and am currently using it to stream from the mR > U12 > Bel Canto 3.5vb, very good.

M

I think that the Ethernet input of the mR might be galvanically isolated, but I can find no reference to the claim that the USB output is galvanically isolated. Do you have a link to a statement by the manufacturer or a designer that this is the case?

No. Martin mentioned it to me on the phone, I had an 'issue' with my Oppo 105D and while we were discussing it he made that statement. As it happened the issue was nothing to do with the mR - and took me two weeks to sort out!

Looking at the Computer Audiophile, where I knew I had read about g. isolation they specifically mention the network input. I'll drop Martin an email and see if he can confirm.

M

Mr Underhill posted:

No. Martin mentioned it to me on the phone, I had an 'issue' with my Oppo 105D and while we were discussing it he made that statement. As it happened the issue was nothing to do with the mR - and took me two weeks to sort out!

Looking at the Computer Audiophile, where I knew I had read about g. isolation they specifically mention the network input. I'll drop Martin an email and see if he can confirm.

M

If the USB output is galvanically isolated I am surprised that Sonore themselves make no mention of it. But it does seem to have John Swenson/Regen type USB reclocking, though that is not the same thing as g.i.. Me, I'd want to see a statement from the manufacturer or designer to confirm.

likesmusic posted:
Mr Underhill posted:

I have been told by Vortexbox UK that the mR is galvanically isolated. I got a U12 delivered today and am currently using it to stream from the mR > U12 > Bel Canto 3.5vb, very good.

M

I think that the Ethernet input of the mR might be galvanically isolated, but I can find no reference to the claim that the USB output is galvanically isolated. Do you have a link to a statement by the manufacturer or a designer that this is the case?

Ethernet is always galvanically isolated - if its not its not compliant with the physical ethernet specification and most likely would not reliably work. Remember Galvanic isolation is primarily about DC (hence the name) and very low frequencies as opposed to RF - it effectively breaks the direct path between two circuits so as to break ground loops and modulated ground currents to allow circuits of different ground potentials to be connected.

Simon

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Is anyone running a microRendu into a Chord Hugo? If so what are the opinions?

Not the Hugo but with a 2Qute, so very similar.

The microRendu (standard PSU) has been running with Roon (iMac) continuously for a week now and I'm delighted with the improvement compared to streaming via the 272.

Whilst the 272 is excellent, Roon > microRendu > 2Qute > 272 is considerably better to my ears. The sound appears to have more detail, a larger sound stage and just provides a more open window on the recording. I've switched back and forth several times and come to the same conclusion every time. 

A big surprise has been the improvement on 44.1KHz CD rips which have come to life.

 

 

One fundamental difference between Hugo and 2qute is latter has galvanic isolation. I don't know whether or not it also has better RF filtering. Preventing RF into the DAC internals is vital for best performance - though I don't know what the mR's output is like ( for comparison, Mac Mini USB output, even in dedicated bus mode, is a problem due to RF and needs an isolator between it and Hugo or performance is degraded. Same is not true of the HugoTT which has better filtering built in - though apparently Chord's designer is now suggesting that even on its flagship Dave, additional RF filtering is needed if the source is noisy. What I don't know is how noisy the mR is compared to MM, and it will almost certainly vary with the power supply. But perhaps (?) it doesn't introduce more RF than that from the power supply, unlike a computer where no improving the power supply can reduce but not  stop all the noise on its output.

On a Mac Mini, a good isolator like the Gustard makes it unnecessary to improve the MM's power supply - Maybe that is true of the mR, unless there are other reasons for doing so. Something worth comparing if anyone has both a high quality power supply for the mR and a Gustard, and is using running amp and speakers that are sufficiently analytical.

Thanks, yes the Hugo has extensive internal RF filtering on its numerous internal power supplies and circuitry .. which is why it is so effective, however it's USB inputs are designed for low ground noise floating devices such as portable devices and uses no galvanic isolation on those inputs. However I read the microRendu has been designed to provide floating very low ground plane noise (IE one of its main benefits) and there are some reports it sounds exceptional with the Hugo.. and one US review says it sounds better than the TT which does use a different USB input circuit which has been designed to mitigate  noisier USB sources. If you read various engineering discussion docs you can see inductively coupled galvanic isolation can affect signal timing depending on the signal.. it's not a free lunch. Hence my comments of direct experiences with Hugo ideally playing into Naim amplification.. Prevention is better than cure.

thanks

S

The microRendu has a Regen USB cleaner built in. The whole point of the unit is to bring a low noise connection via USB so as to stream to USB from the LAN. No idea bout the Hugo, though I don't see why it wouldn't work as well as the reports coming from a myriad of other dacs, galvanic isolation or not. It's truly an amazing little unit that just continues to open up the music like I never thought possible (or could afford). 

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RobH
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