Speakers that work close to a back wall

Interesting idea Jamesie although i suspect finding a decent pair would be difficult - did most of them come in black ash too. The Larsens do look very interesting though. Will investigate a bit further on the Larsen speakers and see if i can get a demo 

b_lund posted:

Naim SBL and Larsen design are as far as possible speakers from each other with their very different performance

Funny but I do like both 

 

Could you elaborate a bit? I'm guessing the SBLs need no further description here, but not many people here will likely have had a chance to hear the Larsens.

A review of the 8s I just found made them sound good, but possibly a bit excessive in the treble. Any idea about the 6.2s?

Dave***t posted:
b_lund posted:

Naim SBL and Larsen design are as far as possible speakers from each other with their very different performance

Funny but I do like both 

 

Could you elaborate a bit? I'm guessing the SBLs need no further description here, but not many people here will likely have had a chance to hear the Larsens.

A review of the 8s I just found made them sound good, but possibly a bit excessive in the treble. Any idea about the 6.2s?

There' s a similar thread on PFM forum where someone describe Larsen performance pretty well

They paint a large soundstage and wall behind speakers sort of dissapear

I noticed none analytic  tweeter excessives, on the contrary, many standmounts will reveal harshness etc more I guess.

Whats lacking is the pin point focus ordinary speakers provide, bit like how some Shahinian plays, Making Larsen very interesting for those wanting this kind of reproduction on lower budget.

They are based on the old Swedish Carlsson design, chiefdesigner was part of that era, hope he gets all the success deserved. Carlsson did not.

I heard Larsen Model 6 at a dealer recently, within a foot or so of the back wall, and was taken with their musicality/PRaT. Outstanding imaging and soundstage though maybe not the nth degree of clarity. The higher Model 8 is one I'm intrigued to get home for a demo, but they are rather costly in the US. It's tough to put a price limit on the value of PRaT, or for that matter the unconventional look of the Larsens.

Ah thanks for that Wild Rumpus. That works fine for me as it means they are even harder to push over. Checked out MCRU's home demo arrangement which makes things very easy so looks like i'll be giving them a go. Out of interest, how far do you have them apart ?

James

james n posted:

Ah thanks for that Wild Rumpus. That works fine for me as it means they are even harder to push over. Checked out MCRU's home demo arrangement which makes things very easy so looks like i'll be giving them a go. Out of interest, how far do you have them apart ?

James

I had them between just under 6 feet and 8 feet apart, in my room they definitely sound better at just under 6 feet apart.

Wild Rumpus posted:

Naim SBLs were on my list, but I have plasterboard walls and a suspended wooden floor and there is a consensus of opinion on Hi-Fi forums that they don't work well in such an environment.

If you really need speakers close up to the wall, you will have compromises with any speaker [within the frequency range of SBLs] when placed in the environment of suspended wooden floor and plasterboard walls.

It's quite possible SBLs would still be less compromised in your room than other makes of speaker of which may also be more expensive.

The option is to play safe with a small standmount speaker such as N-Sats, which would be more sensible if your wall is a neighbouring wall, in other words not a 'detached' house.

Debs

Wild Rumpus posted:
james n posted:

Ah thanks for that Wild Rumpus. That works fine for me as it means they are even harder to push over. Checked out MCRU's home demo arrangement which makes things very easy so looks like i'll be giving them a go. Out of interest, how far do you have them apart ?

James

I had them between just under 6 feet and 8 feet apart, in my room they definitely sound better at just under 6 feet apart.

Thanks again. Contacted MCRU so hopefully will get a home demo organised for the Model 6 in the next couple of weeks 

TOBYJUG posted:
james n posted:

Pretty handsome (IMHO) - liking the look of the 6 




...Looks like a box that's been hit with a shed stick handsome. Yes !

Well, I like the looks of them, it's nice to see something other than another "monkey coffin"! My wife thinks they look great, too.

TOBYJUG posted:
james n posted:

Pretty handsome (IMHO) - liking the look of the 6 




...Looks like a box that's been hit with a shed stick handsome. Yes !

What's a shed stick ? . I must admit not to be completely convinced by the looks but in maple and against the wall i think they will look pretty good in my room. The acid test (after checking they sound good) is whether the missus likes them...

james n posted:
TOBYJUG posted:
james n posted:

Pretty handsome (IMHO) - liking the look of the 6 




...Looks like a box that's been hit with a shed stick handsome. Yes !

What's a shed stick ? . I must admit not to be completely convinced by the looks but in maple and against the wall i think they will look pretty good in my room. The acid test (after checking they sound good) is whether the missus likes them...

I like them, they remind me of daleks, but there would be more chance of my wife allowing Linda Lusardi moving in than having those in the living room.

Wild Rumpus posted:
james n posted:

Interesting - thanks chaps. What's the base of the Larsens like - just a plinth, spikes ? . Not really clear from any photos i've seen. 

James

 

No spikes or plinth - they just sit on the floor, it doesn't seem to hold them back, though...

Larsen recommend Sonic Design damping feet, included in the L8 model according to the Swedish version of the Larsen homepage.

Wild Rumpus posted:

Naim SBLs were on my list, but I have plasterboard walls and a suspended wooden floor and there is a consensus of opinion on Hi-Fi forums that they don't work well in such an environment.

i think you mean "concensus of ignorance". 

jon honeyball posted:
Wild Rumpus posted:

Naim SBLs were on my list, but I have plasterboard walls and a suspended wooden floor and there is a consensus of opinion on Hi-Fi forums that they don't work well in such an environment.

i think you mean "concensus of ignorance". 

You could be right, but getting a demo in my own room of a speaker that was discontinued a long time ago would be difficult...I did contemplate buying a cheap set in unfashionable black to try them out, but I have decided to buy the Larsens and I'm happy with that decision.

mike_f65 posted:
Wild Rumpus posted:
james n posted:

Interesting - thanks chaps. What's the base of the Larsens like - just a plinth, spikes ? . Not really clear from any photos i've seen. 

James

 

No spikes or plinth - they just sit on the floor, it doesn't seem to hold them back, though...

Larsen recommend Sonic Design damping feet, included in the L8 model according to the Swedish version of the Larsen homepage.

Thanks Mike. I have a pair of Model 6's coming next week for a demo thanks to MCRU. As they're arriving the same day as we're having a new fire fitted i'm hoping to slip them into place and the other half will be so taken with the new fire she won't even notice the different speakers...

If you are on budget Wilmslow audio sell replica HB1's these are amazing against a wall .... they are giant killers. My only reservation is they need to be played fairly loud to come alive. Proably not in the same league as sbl of course.....they are like a big linn kan. .....

james n posted:
Wild Rumpus posted:
but I have decided to buy the Larsens and I'm happy with that decision.
 

How are you getting on with them or are you still waiting for them to arrive ?

I ended up buying the demonstrators, I was offered a decent discount and it saved me money on freight. I'm very happy with them - they outperform the Ninkas (which I thought were very good speakers) in pretty much every area. I'm going to order the matching centre speaker as I have a 7.1 system (the front speakers powered by my Supernait). The expansive soundstage of the Larsens works very well with films, too.

Coincidently ProAc has issed this week the Tablette 10. It uses "a thin walled heavy damped infinite baffle enclosure which is the same as the BBC LS3/5a.  This design allows the Tablette 10 to be positioned against the wall, unlike a ported enclosure". 

Chag -

The demo pair of Larsen (Model 6) speakers arrived via UPS late yesterday afternoon, perfectly timed just as I was putting our lounge back after the fireplace chap had gone. Taking into account that these were just taken out of their boxes, plonked against the wall without any care for fine positioning, my first impressions were very positive. They do have a different character to the PMC’s they may replace, but having had a ‘just one more track and I will go to bed’ listen last night, my overriding impressions are that these are very musical speakers that work very well with the room

After sound quality my major concern was how they would look in our lounge as they have a slightly different  appearance to most speakers, but up against the wall, they look very discrete and rather smart. My other half rather liked them too so that’s one major obstacle cleared.

I’m looking forward to getting to have a good play with these speakers over the next week or so to make up my mind whether they are keepers. They certainly tick a lot of boxes at the moment so…

Ghettoyout posted:

Has anyone tried Wilson Duette 2 speakers? They are desinged for use up against a wall. I'm hoping to try a pair in the not too distant future. They seem to get very favourable reviews in the press. Cost around £20,000 so not exactly cheap.

20,000 can buy you a lot of speaker- what equipment will be driving these little devils?

ATB,

Mark

varyat posted:
Ghettoyout posted:

Has anyone tried Wilson Duette 2 speakers? They are desinged for use up against a wall. I'm hoping to try a pair in the not too distant future. They seem to get very favourable reviews in the press. Cost around £20,000 so not exactly cheap.

20,000 can buy you a lot of speaker- what equipment will be driving these little devils?

ATB,

Mark

If I'd had £20k to spare for speakers I'd be rich enough to buy a bigger house with bigger rooms so my speakers could sit wherever suited them!

The speakers would be on the end of a 552/500DR system. I quite like the idea of moving to a house with a bigger room that can accommodate speakers that like to be out in the room but around Oxfordshire you need considerably more than £20,000 to upgrade to a bigger house. But it is a thought though.

Ghettoyout posted:

The speakers would be on the end of a 552/500DR system. I quite like the idea of moving to a house with a bigger room that can accommodate speakers that like to be out in the room but around Oxfordshire you need considerably more than £20,000 to upgrade to a bigger house. But it is a thought though.

I know, but if I had £20k to spend on speakers, rather than £2k, it would imply that I would have 10 x as much money for everything else! Even in the central belt of Scotland I'd need more than £20k to upgrade to a bigger house...

Thank you for the tip regarding the Hawks. May well investigate. My dealer has now lent me a pair of Duette 2s. They are very substantial speakers with heavy duty stands. They come in wooden crates. You would need a van for all the various boxes. No wonder they retail at £20,000 with a 15% price rise, or thereabouts, to come.

Anyway, as you might expect, they are very good. Treble was  a bit bright for me though. They are not as natural sounding as the Sabrinas for example. They do tend to disappear and image very well. Although very well made, they are a lot of money.

Probably worth waiting for the new Kudos models that should plug the gap between the Titan and S20s.

I remain,

Ghetto Yout'.

If you want speakers that work close to a wall then you might want to select ones that aren't rear ported. In my experience, most rear ported speakers need 60cm or more to sound really good, which is not practical in many rooms. I'm at a loss to explain why manufacturers do this.

One exception is ATC, who make sealed speakers. They sound excellent even close to a rear wall. A Supernait has plenty of power to drive them too.

Solid Air posted:

If you want speakers that work close to a wall then you might want to select ones that aren't rear ported. In my experience, most rear ported speakers need 60cm or more to sound really good, which is not practical in many rooms. I'm at a loss to explain why manufacturers do this.

Rear ports help lessen the audible noise from air movement & internal cabinet higher freq noises that can be heard with front ports.   Yes they do need more space to sound at their best because of rear wall reinforcement,  but I point the finger at some manufacturers who aim for max and/or lightly damped bouncy bass that forces out in the room placement.  That aside there is a lot of rubbish myths about ports & rear ports in particular.  Bottom ported designs seems to be best of both worlds.    I have designed my own speakers to work closer to the wall than would be normal with commercial rear ported designs, so it can be done. But if I was looking for a speaker to buy that worked best close to the wall,  then I would for sure choose an IB  (non ported) design.  

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