Super Lumina trial

Borrowed a Super Lumina interconnect and tried it between nds and 552 .... omg sounds fantastic... everything is better .... makes my hi line sound thin and harsh. It is a keeper!!! .... I am so impressed ... I was skeptical but i have to say wow....

Original Post

Is it a given with these cables that for example, in this instance where the OP has replaced a hi-line with an SL interconnect, this commitment effectively locks you into all other interconnect/ speaker cables having to be SL?  Equally, had the OP installed a ChordMusic interconnect, would that dictate the same would be needed for any other upgrade in wires?

Reason for asking is to establish how significant a decision buying a single interconnect could be for the future direction of cables in your system.  Apologies if this is stating the obvious - I'm genuinely ignorant on this matter!

Peter

Yep Super lumnia replaced hi line. Hi Line quite bright to my ears .... some may call it exciting. I did orginally have a 272 and 250dr .... I tried SL between ... not that good.... the witch hat was very close and an order of magnitude cheaper. I was genuinely shocked at the difference .... like a cartridge change in a turntable....going from mm to mc.... I do have SL speaker cable  ..... 

Each step towards the full Super Lumina loom delivers. If anything the DIN to XLR pair connecting my 282 + SuperCap DR to the 300DR was the last and biggest step. 

This morning I saw the DIN to XLR on eBay for £1895 (40% discount). Act quick!

Phil

northpole posted:

Is it a given with these cables that for example, in this instance where the OP has replaced a hi-line with an SL interconnect, this commitment effectively locks you into all other interconnect/ speaker cables having to be SL?  Equally, had the OP installed a ChordMusic interconnect, would that dictate the same would be needed for any other upgrade in wires?

Reason for asking is to establish how significant a decision buying a single interconnect could be for the future direction of cables in your system.  Apologies if this is stating the obvious - I'm genuinely ignorant on this matter!

Peter

No it doesn't lock you in at all. Not sure why it would? It doesn't make any sense.

Any Superlumina cable in any order adds more clarity and musicality to the system. Some people say that SL DIN/XLR doesn't work with NACA5, but I don't hear this problem at all. Some people wrongly state that SL speaker cable doesn't time as well as NACA5, but I don't hear this at all. It keeps all the engagement of NACA5, and improves in many ways on NACA5.

Oh... and Chord music is double the price of Superlumina by the way. I have serious doubts that it is twice as good.

It does make sense to start SL cabling from the source though, as any loss there cannot be recovered later in the chain.

The standard Naim DIN/XLR isn't particularly transparent to my ears. It times well, but lacks soundstage and clarity, very obvious when replaced by a better DIN/XLR cable, and it is quite a game changing upgrade.

 

 

 

Richieroo posted:

Borrowed a Super Lumina interconnect and tried it between nds and 552 .... omg sounds fantastic... everything is better .... makes my hi line sound thin and harsh. It is a keeper!!! .... I am so impressed ... I was skeptical but i have to say wow....

"Take a look at what has transpired over the last three decades:

CB>Olive>Black Boxes, and now The Dred Black Boxes, these changes has set the stage for the New Evolving Naim Sound.

Hence, a Dred front and rear end, with The Full Loom, and one has the New Naim Sound, quite different from the CB & Olive era!

Think of it as an Hybrid between Flat Earth & Round Earth!

However, one must get there, and in the process, may turn some of us off, for example when the black boxes were introduced, some didn’t care for the laid back sound, they preferred the more forward, boogie factor that was prominent in the Olive boxes.

Perhaps, we are experiencing a balancing act, between the Black Box Era, and the new DRed Era!

{Note, the New Naim Sound isn’t complete until the Full Loom is present. Hence, the introduction, or lack of IC’s, and Speaker Cable can effect SQ in many ways depending on one’s system.}

Just Saying!

Enjoy Your Music!

Chord Music, oops!

Allante93!

analogmusic posted:

Allante there is no such thing as new naim sound isn't complete until a full loom of SL being there. 

ite completely false information 

there is no new naim sound either.

You are Correct!

Allante93!

PS. But it was new to Richieroo!

"omg sounds fantastic"

analogmusic posted:

Allante there is no such thing as new naim sound isn't complete until a full loom of SL being there. 

ite completely false information 

there is no new naim sound either.

since 2002, around this year, naim sound is quite the same for me,  the dr modifications had not really changed his character. But the "olive sound " was a bit different, with less body and grip , but perhaps more softness and fluency.

Allante93 posted:
analogmusic posted:

Allante there is no such thing as new naim sound isn't complete until a full loom of SL being there. 

ite completely false information 

there is no new naim sound either.

You are Correct!

Allante93!

PS. But it was new to Richieroo!

"omg sounds fantastic"

one could say that about the jump from 252 to 552

but it isn't a new naim sound.

Richieroo posted:

Borrowed a Super Lumina interconnect and tried it between nds and 552 .... omg sounds fantastic... everything is better .... makes my hi line sound thin and harsh. It is a keeper!!! .... I am so impressed ... I was skeptical but i have to say wow....

Hi,

Was it already run in ?

When i introduced mine (555 to 552) was new and took about three weeks to sound decently and open out. At the beginning i was on the verge to  keep th Hi Line.

Regards

Roberto

analogmusic posted:
Allante93 posted:
analogmusic posted:

Allante there is no such thing as new naim sound isn't complete until a full loom of SL being there. 

ite completely false information 

there is no new naim sound either.

You are Correct!

Allante93!

PS. But it was new to Richieroo!

"omg sounds fantastic"

one could say that about the jump from 252 to 552

but it isn't a new naim sound.

There's no such thing as a Naim sound. 

analogmusic posted:
northpole posted:

Is it a given with these cables that for example, in this instance where the OP has replaced a hi-line with an SL interconnect, this commitment effectively locks you into all other interconnect/ speaker cables having to be SL?  Equally, had the OP installed a ChordMusic interconnect, would that dictate the same would be needed for any other upgrade in wires?

Reason for asking is to establish how significant a decision buying a single interconnect could be for the future direction of cables in your system.  Apologies if this is stating the obvious - I'm genuinely ignorant on this matter!

No it doesn't lock you in at all. Not sure why it would? It doesn't make any sense.

Agreed - in every given circumstance that I have tried so far adding any of the Chord Sarum Super, T or Music into a Super Lumina combination or full loom always helps the system to sound better 

LOL !!! I was waiting for the Sarum supporters to come out.

But on a Chord Dave, Sarum Super Array didn't sound  as musical as a Vertere Pulse B which easily sounded a lot more transparent and fluid than the Sarum into 552/500. Sarum seems to add an extra dose of PRAT - which the Chord Dave really doesn't need at all.

More Laid back sources like Naim HDX  or Linn KDS/1 greatly benefit from Sarum, but Chord Dave needs a transparent cable Like Vertere or Superlumina. I really like Vertere cables - since they say we want our cables to have no sound of their own, and just be transparent and do as little damage to the signal as possible. Seems that Superlumina has the same design objectives, to be as neutral to the signal as possible.

A Superlumina RCA/DIN with Chord Dave playing DSD files, wow that's seriously amazing. Sarum wasn't on that level.

I have to say though that when people buy hi-end cables, I realized that we are looking for a different sound.

I recently tried a cable which claimed to have no change from the Naim sound, and in fact it didn't really make that much difference - but then why would I need it, and it went back and I keep the vertere DIN/XLR   which does improve on the Standard Naim DIN/XLR.

 

Chris Dolan posted:
analogmusic posted:
northpole posted:

Is it a given with these cables that for example, in this instance where the OP has replaced a hi-line with an SL interconnect, this commitment effectively locks you into all other interconnect/ speaker cables having to be SL?  Equally, had the OP installed a ChordMusic interconnect, would that dictate the same would be needed for any other upgrade in wires?

Reason for asking is to establish how significant a decision buying a single interconnect could be for the future direction of cables in your system.  Apologies if this is stating the obvious - I'm genuinely ignorant on this matter!

No it doesn't lock you in at all. Not sure why it would? It doesn't make any sense.

Agreed - in every given circumstance that I have tried so far adding any of the Chord Sarum Super, T or Music into a Super Lumina combination or full loom always helps the system to sound better 

Posted by: Analog Music

"I have to say though that when people buy hi-end cables, I realized that we are looking for a different sound.

I recently tried a cable which claimed to have no change from the Naim sound, and in fact it didn't really make that much difference - but then why would I need it, and it went back and I keep the vertere DIN/XLR   which does improve on the Standard Naim DIN/XLR."

@ northpole, I'm with you, also  genuinely ignorant on this matter!

But I couldn't agree more with you Gentleman!

Enjoy Your Music!

Oops!

Allante93!

Its interesting to think about interconnect cables for a moment. A cable is an entirely passive device....it cannot add anything to the signal...not air, detail, bass, openness, musicality, speed. All it can do is subtract those attributes.... so a poor cable will have less of everything and a more closed in, less detailed, harsher character.

But, in the same way a cable doesn't add anything to the signal, it doesn't take anything away either, but it can alter the signal and that's important. When you substitute a cable and you hear more detail, more timbre, more air and better separation...all those characteristics were present in the signal going through the old cable, but what happened to them such that you couldn't hear them?  The fact is that the new, better cable is able to preserve far more of the integrity of the signal. With the old cable, all those details are still present, but no longer separated as individual features in the musical signal. Instead they become mixed into and combined with the signal you're hearing. Essentially they distort the signal, creating unpleasant artefacts to the sound like harshness, bloat, a feeling of slowness as leading edges are blurred.  Whenever you add a better cable, notice that the improvement in air, detail, treble extension is always accompanied by a lowering of harshness. Why? Because the added details you hear are no longer homogenized into the musical signal as distortion. Similarly extra or more extended bass is usually accompanied by less bloat and greater speed and agility.

There's a reason why a product like the MuSo can sound so good using quite modest components. It obviously doesn't do imaging or have highly transparent midrange and extended, sparkling treble, but what it does do it does exceptionally well. Amazing ability to boogie, with exceptional pace and excellent timbre in the bass (the opposite of 1 note bass),  great midrange and treble clarity with a notable absence of harshness.  No sockets, plugs and interconnecting cables brings a number of benefits.

When you have a moment, take a look at those old Snaics that have been connecting your system together for years....specifically look at the DIN plug pins. Dull?  The amount of oxidation is inversely proportional to sound quality. Substitute that cable for a nice new shiny Snaic and what do you notice? Sounds like you've upgraded your cable.  Same with power cables.  Repeatedly plugging and unplugging an old power cable that's been in place a few years will remove oxidation, improving the contact so you'll hear the same thing.... an improvement in SQ.  Any contamination on connectors in the signal path have the ability to modify the musical signal, adding distortion in the process.

So before you throw a whole lotta money at new cables, clean and maintain those you already have and you may find that the sound you want to improve with new cables just got a whole lot better.

 

Harry posted:

If Naim didn't exist I wouldn't have any trouble living with and loving a Linn streaming system. The only thing that consistently leaves me cool about Linn is the neatness of the presentation. It seems to come with a bow tied around it. Even playing badly recorded Punk, it is easy for me to envisage a conductor waving a baton in the studio. Maybe I think this because I am now so used to how Naim seems to get into the guts of things.

I can relate to that!

Introduced to Linn in the Late 80's, just joined Naimland in the Fall of 2014.

Harry posted:
analogmusic posted:

There is. 

Otherwise why buy Naim at all ?

Because of the insight, the communication, the realism.

There is no Naim sound. If there was, everything would sound the same. 

           {The Evolving Naim Sound}

CB>Olive>Black Box> SL/Black Box

Allante93!

PS. Stop it Mr. Blackmorec!

That makes to much Sense! 

Richieroo posted:

I have read it in a few places .... then I looked on their web site and it guess what it does look suspiciously similar .....  Mr rooster can you shine any light on this???

i have read many times this , and just tried to find this information on google, but without success.  I hope i have not read wrong information....

as both companies won't answer the question, I did my homework

The vertere cables have their own house sound, very dynamic, lively, but they do have a sound of their own - which actually I do happen to like a lot. Put a Vertere cable in a Naim chain, you can hear that right way, and it does not have the relaxed but Dynamic at the same time of a SL interconnect, it is just a very lively, "Live sound" cable.  

I think they say it better "Sit back, relax, and feel the impact of real musicians in the comfort of your home."

Superlumina is very much a Naim sounding cable, in fact me and a close friend burst out laughing whenever we put SL cables back next to Vertere, as it really got the Naim sound,  (hint - the midrange is very typically Naim - and actually sounds like most Chord interconnects too - like the old Chyrsalis - the huge midrange)

They are made of different materials : Vertere is Gold plated connectors, Superlumina Silver plated ones.

The Naim interconnects have the patented Naim air plugs, the Vertere don't.

So - NO, Naim are not taking Vertere cables and re-badging them. ( I think Naim would be be very offended at the suggestion). 

 

 

I am not suggesting it is a rebadge job .... however, Naim do not manufacture cable wire .... I suspect that the cable is sourced and then terminated with their bespoke plugs. Also naim will have tested loads of cable types before selecting. Thus is nothing to be ashamed of ..... 

The insulation is different too.

Vertere used Teflon - Naim apparently does not - on the only review of SL on their own website, it says the insulation of polyolefin. 

So no they aren't the same cables, even if they use the same basic idea. 

And very strange- Vertere cables need no running in at all, and sound great out of the box

SL - on the other hand - needs 200 hours running time.

How could they be the same cables?

analogmusic posted:

as both companies won't answer the question, I did my homework

The vertere cables have their own house sound, very dynamic, lively, but they do have a sound of their own - which actually I do happen to like a lot. Put a Vertere cable in a Naim chain, you can hear that right way, and it does not have the relaxed but Dynamic at the same time of a SL interconnect, it is just a very lively, "Live sound" cable.  

Superlumina is very much a Naim sounding cable, in fact me and a close friend burst out laughing whenever we put SL cables back next to Vertere, as it really got the Naim sound,  (hint - the midrange is very typically Naim) 

They are made of different materials : Vertere is Gold plated connectors, Superlumina Silver plated ones.

The Naim interconnects have the patented Naim air plugs, the Vertere don't.

So - NO, Naim are not taking Vertere cables and re-badging them. ( I think Naim would be be very offended at the suggestion).

 

 

 

vertere and superlumina don't apparently sound the same, but it is not a proof that vertere audio don't make these superlumina with naim specifications.  I would like to find the information again....

I also read and my dealer confirmed me, that powerline is made by furutech.    Maybe someone here will confirm or not this superlumina mistery....

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