Super Lumina trial

Richieroo posted:

I am not suggesting it is a rebadge job .... however, Naim do not manufacture cable wire .... I suspect that the cable is sourced and then terminated with their bespoke plugs. Also naim will have tested loads of cable types before selecting. Thus is nothing to be ashamed of ..... 

This may be true, But I think I know a Company that is familiar with Naim:

"The Chord Company was formed in 1984. It all started over dinner one night in Salisbury, when a group of visiting Naim Audio USA retailers asked Naim Audio UK for a good-quality DIN-to-RCA interconnect.  At the table, was one Sally Gibb, then married to a Naim Audio executive, who made the (historic) suggestion that she make the cables and start a business. With the blessing of Naim Audio, the journey to make cables for America began.... ""

Enjoy your Music!

Oops!

Allante93!

With USA referring to cables as ‘cords’, the name The Chord Company, with its obvious musical connotations, seemed perfect and it quickly stuck. Sally drew a logo, designed the packaging and started testing prototypes. Completely British design and construction, although difficult to source at the time, was paramount and days of searching eventually led to suppliers of sufficient quality. Friends at Naim Audio provided expertise and advice, with many of them helping to build the cables.

The first prototype was named “Chrysalis Cable” and the Americans swiftly returned with an initial order of 250! Cables were built, tested, packed and taken along to the Post Office.  Invoices were typed on a typewriter! After two steady years, The Chord Company got its first press review (by Malcolm Steward) and then the phone started to ring…

Drewy posted:

One thing for sure is Naim do not make cables. They obviously have it supplied to their spec and do the terminations. I wonder how many hi fi cable manufacturers actually make their own cables. 

the cables are a huge part of the "naim sound"

It was very obvious to me when I changed from a generic RCA to DIN cable from eBay to a real Naim one.

WOW ! - it was a day and night difference.  

I was a cable unbeliever till then, now a total cable believer.

I do get upset sometimes. I love my name gear I love the standard interconnects. I enjoyed the difference a hi line made. I was gobsmacked at the difference a chord indigo made.  The reason I get upset is the same people that said standard interconnects and  naca5 are great and no other cable is the same are now the same people that have been brainwashed because now maim say they make a difference. It's just marketing. If you have a full loom of anything it will have synergy whether that be witch hat chord or naim.

The only lt thing you can guarentee when purchasing the sl is that you are hearing what animal want you to hear. 

It's amazing all the standard cables were good enough until naim jumped on the bandwagon. 

 

 

I do get upset sometimes. I love my name gear I love the standard interconnects. I enjoyed the difference a hi line made. I was gobsmacked at the difference a chord indigo made.  The reason I get upset is the same people that said standard interconnects and  naca5 are great and no other cable is the same are now the same people that have been brainwashed because now maim say they make a difference. It's just marketing. If you have a full loom of anything it will have synergy whether that be witch hat chord or naim.

The only lt thing you can guarentee when purchasing the sl is that you are hearing what naim  want you to hear. 

It's amazing all the standard cables were good enough until naim jumped on the bandwagon. 

 

 

On a slightly different point - and something I have always wondered about. Where do the Burndy cables sit in all this 'loom' discussion. I have Chord Signature TA IC's between my CDX2 and 252 and between my SC and 250. They made a pleasing difference - but the Burndy between the 252 and SC would remain a constant no matter how esoteric (expensive) I went. Is it not a bottleneck - or is what Naim wire it with so good it will always keep pace?

RICHARD DANE ADMINISTRATOR
9/9/16 11:41 AM

Non-Naim interconnects, speaker cables etc.. no problem. However SNAICs and Burndys carry DC power between kit and getting this even a little bit wrong means, at best, compromised performance, and at worst, potentially catastrophic consequences.  Naim's view is that using anything other than Naim built SNAICs and Burndys constitutes an unauthorised modification and puts your system at potential risk.

One could get Snake bitten!  

ALLANTE93 MEMBER
10/31/16 10:19 AM

Innocent Bystander posted:
Ah, the age-old interesting question: do cables really change with time, or is it people getting used to something that maybe sounds different, either learning to like it, even if it sounds worse, or justifying the expenditure, regardless of whether the difference is neutral or negative......

Perhaps the only Reptile that can adapt to the Naim's ecosystem, is the King Snaic.

That being said, the Reptiles that belong to the SL Family, can only perform at it's best in a familiar environment.

That being the Full Loom!

Loom River, drifting from Statement Hills!

Just some Thoughts.

Allante93!

Allante93 posted:

RICHARD DANE ADMINISTRATOR
9/9/16 11:41 AM

Non-Naim interconnects, speaker cables etc.. no problem. However SNAICs and Burndys carry DC power between kit and getting this even a little bit wrong means, at best, compromised performance, and at worst, potentially catastrophic consequences.  Naim's view is that using anything other than Naim built SNAICs and Burndys constitutes an unauthorised modification and puts your system at potential risk.

One could get Snake bitten!  

i have chord din snaic, signature tuned array, and they work very well.  Chord can make any cable you want.  They make me a special cable to connect my tube preamp with the nap 300dr. But it was not so easy.  I was not already been bitten....

True Blue posted:

I do get upset sometimes. I love my name gear I love the standard interconnects. I enjoyed the difference a hi line made. I was gobsmacked at the difference a chord indigo made.  The reason I get upset is the same people that said standard interconnects and  naca5 are great and no other cable is the same are now the same people that have been brainwashed because now maim say they make a difference. It's just marketing. If you have a full loom of anything it will have synergy whether that be witch hat chord or naim.

The only lt thing you can guarentee when purchasing the sl is that you are hearing what animal want you to hear. 

It's amazing all the standard cables were good enough until naim jumped on the bandwagon. 

 

 

I wouldn't get upset about it.

The Strat (Fender) posted:
True Blue posted:

I do get upset sometimes. I love my name gear I love the standard interconnects. I enjoyed the difference a hi line made. I was gobsmacked at the difference a chord indigo made.  The reason I get upset is the same people that said standard interconnects and  naca5 are great and no other cable is the same are now the same people that have been brainwashed because now naim say they make a difference. It's just marketing. If you have a full loom of anything it will have synergy whether that be witch hat chord or naim.

The only lt thing you can guarentee when purchasing the sl is that you are hearing what animal want you to hear. 

It's amazing all the standard cables were good enough until naim jumped on the bandwagon. 

I wouldn't get upset about it.

I would relax and listen to some cables music  

Nothing like a nice walk, but to be fair to Naim:

"During the development of Statement, our flagship amplification system, our engineers realised that they would need to design a whole new range of high-performance cables for it to reach its true potential.  

{{With this in mind they began a development project to design interconnects and speaker cable that would meet Statement standards of performance}}. Through a deep understanding of material science and after thousands of hours testing in the listening room, the Super Lumina range was born.

{{Designed to maximise the performance of Statement but EQUALLY at home in 500 Series and Classic Series systems....}}""

CB>Olive>Black Box

1973 - 2012 that's nearly 4 decades!

Remember, these are trickled down technologies from The $210K USD Statement!

My Home is only worth $ 160K USD!

S1 ~ 90K

552~ $34,995

252 ~ $11,995

282 ~ $7,995

SCDR ~ $7,695

 5 pin DIN/DIN SL IC ~ $3,295

4 pin DIN/XLR SL IC ~ $5,500 pair

Naim Sniac ~ $325

I'm not good with numbers, but do the Math!

Enjoy your Music!

Allante93!

PS. Msrp.

 

By the way, the posters who stated that SL cables are made by Vertere are absolutely correct! If my dealer is to be believed, just like Seas and Scanspeak manufacture drivers for Kudos, Naim, and a host of others. Nothing to be ashamed of, just the way some products are made.

If I may, I'm not going to say that if you hear a huge difference in cables is not what you truly hear or believe, that I myself have never heard such drastic differences, I really wish I could, but in all honesty, I never could tell much difference between cables. Differences do exist, but they have never been anything more than very slight.

I do think there are synergies with certain cables and electronics, and some amplifiers can go into oscillation with some cables, which is why I personally stick with Naca5 for my amplifier, that, and the fact that it sounds really good in my system.

 That's how I base my buying decisions. But I can't help but think there are other things that come into play when people purchase such high cost cables, whether it's a placebo effect, or to seek justification from others for spending such amounts on cables, it impresses others, whatever, I really believe that once somebody replaces the standard Naim cables with these high cost alternatives that they truly convince themselves that the system will never sound right unless they purchase these cables. When in reality you can achieve the same thing sonically that impressed you so much compared to the standard Naim cables by auditioning much cheaper alternative cables than the high priced eye candy. 

Just my opinion!

That's a bit of a generalization and insinuating I'm stupid to have bought a hi end vertere interconnect

it makes a differenence

more 3D sounstage

more dynamic

on the Metallica track the opening drum "the god that fails" had more attack energy and just makes it much more realistic and enjoyable

exactly as vertere promised.

expensive? Yes !!!

but  worth it ? Definitely it sounds like I got a black box upgrade.

A wise man, once told me:

Your money may be long, but life is short.

Enjoy the moment!

Eat, Drink, and Enjoy your Music!

Allante93!

PS. It's only Money!

The real  wealth is Health! 

"The most beautiful things are not associated with money; they are memories and moments. If you don't celebrate those, they can pass you by.

Alek Wek"

True Blue posted:

I do get upset sometimes. I love my name gear I love the standard interconnects. I enjoyed the difference a hi line made. I was gobsmacked at the difference a chord indigo made.  The reason I get upset is the same people that said standard interconnects and  naca5 are great and no other cable is the same are now the same people that have been brainwashed because now maim say they make a difference. It's just marketing. If you have a full loom of anything it will have synergy whether that be witch hat chord or naim.

The only lt thing you can guarentee when purchasing the sl is that you are hearing what animal want you to hear. 

It's amazing all the standard cables were good enough until naim jumped on the bandwagon. 

 

 

I understand where you're coming from, but ultimately I have to disagree at least in part.

The amount of money we have to spend on HiFi varies and even the cheapest Naim based system is relatively expensive. Many forum members will have scrimped, saved and sacrificed to be able to afford the system they now have and to then be told that they should buy expensive cables to get the best out of it feels like a kick in the teeth when they'd rather have a holiday, a new car or 100 CDs/LPs. I replaced a Naim kettle lead with a single Chord Sarum power lead (the original version which I think was called Tuned Aray and has since been upgraded twice) with a more than healthy degree of scepticism. The improvement was of a similar magnitude to Linn Karin/Numerik to CDX2/XPS, NAP180 to NAP300 and not that far off NAC82 to NAC552 and CDX2/XPS to CD555/555PS. If money is tight this is not what you want to hear, but unless you've actually tried it don't claim it's not true. And I think there are another group of people (perhaps with less financial limitations) who are blinkered to the possibility that a cable can make as much of a difference as a box.

Bryce Curdy posted:
True Blue posted:

I do get upset sometimes. I love my name gear I love the standard interconnects. I enjoyed the difference a hi line made. I was gobsmacked at the difference a chord indigo made.  The reason I get upset is the same people that said standard interconnects and  naca5 are great and no other cable is the same are now the same people that have been brainwashed because now maim say they make a difference. It's just marketing. If you have a full loom of anything it will have synergy whether that be witch hat chord or naim.

The only lt thing you can guarentee when purchasing the sl is that you are hearing what animal want you to hear. 

It's amazing all the standard cables were good enough until naim jumped on the bandwagon. 

 

 

I understand where you're coming from, but ultimately I have to disagree at least in part.

The amount of money we have to spend on HiFi varies and even the cheapest Naim based system is relatively expensive. Many forum members will have scrimped, saved and sacrificed to be able to afford the system they now have and to then be told that they should buy expensive cables to get the best out of it feels like a kick in the teeth when they'd rather have a holiday, a new car or 100 CDs/LPs. I replaced a Naim kettle lead with a single Chord Sarum power lead (the original version which I think was called Tuned Aray and has since been upgraded twice) with a more than healthy degree of scepticism. The improvement was of a similar magnitude to Linn Karin/Numerik to CDX2/XPS, NAP180 to NAP300 and not that far off NAC82 to NAC552 and CDX2/XPS to CD555/555PS. If money is tight this is not what you want to hear, but unless you've actually tried it don't claim it's not true. And I think there are another group of people (perhaps with less financial limitations) who are blinkered to the possibility that a cable can make as much of a difference as a box.

The difference between an 82 and 552?  I don't believe I just read that.

Drewy posted:
Bryce Curdy posted:
True Blue posted:

I do get upset sometimes. I love my name gear I love the standard interconnects. I enjoyed the difference a hi line made. I was gobsmacked at the difference a chord indigo made.  The reason I get upset is the same people that said standard interconnects and  naca5 are great and no other cable is the same are now the same people that have been brainwashed because now maim say they make a difference. It's just marketing. If you have a full loom of anything it will have synergy whether that be witch hat chord or naim.

The only lt thing you can guarentee when purchasing the sl is that you are hearing what animal want you to hear. 

It's amazing all the standard cables were good enough until naim jumped on the bandwagon. 

 

 

I understand where you're coming from, but ultimately I have to disagree at least in part.

The amount of money we have to spend on HiFi varies and even the cheapest Naim based system is relatively expensive. Many forum members will have scrimped, saved and sacrificed to be able to afford the system they now have and to then be told that they should buy expensive cables to get the best out of it feels like a kick in the teeth when they'd rather have a holiday, a new car or 100 CDs/LPs. I replaced a Naim kettle lead with a single Chord Sarum power lead (the original version which I think was called Tuned Aray and has since been upgraded twice) with a more than healthy degree of scepticism. The improvement was of a similar magnitude to Linn Karin/Numerik to CDX2/XPS, NAP180 to NAP300 and not that far off NAC82 to NAC552 and CDX2/XPS to CD555/555PS. If money is tight this is not what you want to hear, but unless you've actually tried it don't claim it's not true. And I think there are another group of people (perhaps with less financial limitations) who are blinkered to the possibility that a cable can make as much of a difference as a box.

The difference between an 82 and 552?  I don't believe I just read that.

Because you don't want to believe it! You have already decided but not actually listened. But I can't better ANALOGMUSIC's analogy. And I did say it fell short of the 82-552 upgrade but not by that much, and don't start me in terms of VFM! I've done them both and I suspect you've done neither. Too many people can't bear the idea that a cable you can't see can make a similar difference to a black box with some sexy green lights.

 

Can cables make an improvement to the sound of your system?

It's not difficult.

Swapping over an interconnect is one of the simplest things you can do.

Listen to a track.  Swap over the cables and listen again.  Ta dah!! Is there a difference?  Is it an improvement?  Is it all snake oil.

Listen and decide.

When I first experimented it was with a hi-line for my cds3 swapped over from the standard lavender cable.  The difference was incredible.  The clarity improved tremendously.  Now you may wish to have more time to decide if all this additional clarity is a good thing or if it causes some sort of sonic imbalance which you may not favour.  But really, ten minutes of your precious time is all you need to decide if there is no difference, a slight difference, a huge difference and whether this then warrants spending a bit more time reaching a well considered conclusion.

Peter

PS I care not if Naim source the cables from another manufacturer and apply their connectors in house or have the supplier carry out the fitting.  As long as the performance is complying with the Naim specification requirements, that's sufficient for me.  I was merely curious if it were the case.

 

Naim receives the Superlumina cable from their supplier, and terminate in house as I understand.

Just like Naim receive their torroid transformers, and aluminium cases from the respective suppliers.

As I recall reading on this forum, it is the same factory that supply the cables to Vertere and Naim, rather than Vertere being the supplier.

Different specs/sound/look/insulation of cables.

I like live sound and dynamics of Vertere interconnects.

Plus you have Vertere entry level DFI which doesn't cost lot of money.

There really is only so much that can be discussed about hifi, so it's inevitable that there will be an element of repetition. Probably less than 5% of threads contain anything new. 

I'm a great believer in the benefits of SL cables and Powerlines and am something of a convert. But in my view the benefits need to be kept in proportion. I find Bruce's comments interesting. I've had an 82 and a 552, and have changed from the bog standard leads to the expensive ones. For me, the change from the preamps is an order of magnitude greater than that from the leads. It's possible that the Chord mains lead Bryce uses is a lot better than a Powerline, and Bryce of course hears what he hears, but for me the wires are the icing on the cake, rather than the cake itself. Which is based on what I have heard for myself and spent my own money on. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

There really is only so much that can be discussed about hifi, so it's inevitable that there will be an element of repetition. Probably less than 5% of threads contain anything new. 

I'm a great believer in the benefits of SL cables and Powerlines and am something of a convert. But in my view the benefits need to be kept in proportion. I find Bruce's comments interesting. I've had an 82 and a 552, and have changed from the bog standard leads to the expensive ones. For me, the change from the preamps is an order of magnitude greater than that from the leads. It's possible that the Chord mains lead Bryce uses is a lot better than a Powerline, and Bryce of course hears what he hears, but for me the wires are the icing on the cake, rather than the cake itself. Which is based on what I have heard for myself and spent my own money on. 

Wise words. To clarify, not the cake, but more than the icing, and as important as many of the other ingredients. I read recently on the forum that having your equipment rack to the side rather than between your speakers allegedly makes a huge difference to sound quality. I'm deeply sceptical but have not commented because I've never done the comparison and others have and believe it to be so. In a similar theme 6m speaker cable lengths is meant to be ideal and while with Naim amps I understand that short lengths should be avoided I have doubts whether 6m sounds better than 3-4m but again I can't comment because I've never compared. There are threads obsessing about cable positioning and whether they touch the floor. Again, I can't comment. When I did the single Chord Sarum mains lead vs Naim kettle comparison on my 552DR I did it with a mindset that I was expecting it to make little or no difference but was astounded at the results. Anybody who's ever got a 552 is expecting it to trounce an 82 or whatever they've upgraded from, and their ears will be preconditioned. And if we're being honest we're all all a bit guilty of hearing what we want/expect to hear at times so when you notice something that you didn't want/expect it feels a lot more real. I didn't want that mains lead to make any significant difference but when it did I went the whole way with Chord Sarum which just illustrates that I'm as guilty as the next person of what I've suggested above, because I'd decided at that point that any other pricey Chord cable was what I needed!

What pisses me off is people who've never listened claiming it can't be so. If you've listened and thought that more expensive cables made little or no difference then I respect your opinion,but if you've not then with the greatest respect I think you should shut up because I don't comment on lots of things I intuitively don't believe but would not want to bore anybody with my intuition when I've not actually listened.

Hungryhalibut posted:

There really is only so much that can be discussed about hifi, so it's inevitable that there will be an element of repetition. Probably less than 5% of threads contain anything new. 

I'm a great believer in the benefits of SL cables and Powerlines and am something of a convert. But in my view the benefits need to be kept in proportion. I find Bruce's comments interesting. I've had an 82 and a 552, and have changed from the bog standard leads to the expensive ones. For me, the change from the preamps is an order of magnitude greater than that from the leads. It's possible that the Chord mains lead Bryce uses is a lot better than a Powerline, and Bryce of course hears what he hears, but for me the wires are the icing on the cake, rather than the cake itself. Which is based on what I have heard for myself and spent my own money on. 

Sounds like a Wrap!

100% agreed 

Allante93!

PS. 95 % repetitive, I was thinking more like 80%. 

But what would we talk about! LOL.....

Padded Cell????

 

Allante

you are 110 percent ... in need to drive to a dealer to hear some stuff for yourself. Otherwise indeed it's all then padded cell material 

theres only so much you can experience from reading about hi fi

like Sarum cables until you hear with your own ears, comments on them are a bit ill informed 

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